How many have read the constitution?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How many have read the constitution?

Posted: 11/11/2001 4:41:44 AM EDT

And any of poor Richards written by Ben Franklin or any of the writings left by the founding fathers? Just asking.

Posted: 11/11/2001 4:43:07 AM EDT

[#1]

I have, but it was required reading in our family as the texts to learn to read from.

Posted: 11/11/2001 4:43:17 AM EDT

[#2]

I'll see you the above, and raise you the Federalist Papers, and the Anti-Federalist Papers, among others.

Posted: 11/11/2001 4:54:37 AM EDT

[#3]

YES

Actually B.F. wrote God helps those who help themselves, so it's not in the Bible.

As the saying in the preamble the all men are created equal is referring to an American born English man tell the English born English man that both are equal.!!! Heard that at a lecture given by a Black professor

Posted: 11/11/2001 5:08:17 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
YES

Actually B.F. wrote God helps those who help themselves, so it's not in the Bible.

As the saying in the preamble the all men are created equal is referring to an American born English man tell the English born English man that both are equal.!!! Heard that at a lecture given by a Black professor

View Quote

He's adding his own spin to the words. It says "all men". No classes, no citizenship, no place of birth, no "referring to...". Typical liberal crap.

Posted: 11/11/2001 5:23:17 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

He's adding his own spin to the words. It says "all men". No classes, no citizenship, no place of birth, no "referring to...". Typical liberal crap.

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Actually it was the Declaration of Independence where Thomas Jefferson used the words "all men are created equal" and, as Norm_G suggests, it meant just what it said, not what liberal BS professors may say.

If you read contemporary debates from that era, you will see thst the seeds of discontent that would lead to the Civil War were already well planted. The division between north and south was there - and was a key reason for picking a Virginian to be the first President 13 years later.

In fact, an earlier Draft of the Delcaration of independence featured a scathing indictment of the Slave trade, in which Jefferson denounced it as inhuman and a blight on the colonies. However, to get southern support for the war effort, this was removed for political reasons.

I am so sick of people (most recently Clinton) taking abouit how ashamed we should be about slavery in this country. Hell, we fought a war over it. White males (yeah, those guys) were willing to risk everything so that people they had never seen in states they had never been to could live in freedom. That is something to be proud of, not ashamed of. Many only fought secession because they knew that slavery would still exist in the new Confederacy.

Now people say people should pay reparations and other such nonsense. Ignorance has become a new fad.

Adam

Posted: 11/11/2001 5:24:28 AM EDT

[#6]

ME

Posted: 11/11/2001 5:32:05 AM EDT

[#7]

Probably the same exposure as Raf here, perhaps a bit more, in an academic setting. Which meant less fun, not necessarily more learn'in. Beleive it or not I had Professors, as an undergraduate, who argued FOR the "Standard Model". This nearly 15 years ago. There is hope.

Tench Coxe is the most important man you have never heard of. Hot fudge sundae to anyone who can tell me why, in 50 words or less. Besides the fact he has a cool name (may name my second son Tench Coxe Alacrity)

Luck
Alac

Posted: 11/11/2001 5:36:22 AM EDT

[#8]

Actually it was the Declaration of Independence where Thomas Jefferson used the words "all men are created equal" and, as Norm_G suggests, it meant just what it said, not what liberal BS professors may say.

Then may I ask whom were we Declairing Indepenence from? I thought it was England. My mistake.
What liberal about only saying "white" men to "white" men. Sounds pretty ultra right wing to me.

Posted: 11/11/2001 5:48:36 AM EDT

[#9]

I make it a point to read a short list of things every year.

1. The Constitution of the United States of America
2. The Declaration of Independence
3. The Bible (a different translation each year)
4. The primary theological work of another culture or religion (The Book of Mormon this year)
5. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Robert A. Heinlein
6. Silverlock, John Myers Myers
7. The Chronicles of Narnia, C. S. Lewis
8, 9, 10. The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, First Things First, Principle Centered Leadership, Stephen R. Covey, Merrill, Merrill
11. The Kama Sutra (trans. Sir Richard Burton) [b]Just in Case![/b]
12. The Tactics of Mistake, Gordon R. Dickson
13. Lest Darkness Fall, L. Sprague De Camp

And others as well, but these are my touchstones.

Posted: 11/11/2001 6:04:23 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Then may I ask whom were we Declairing Indepenence from? I thought it was England. My mistake.
What liberal about only saying "white" men to "white" men. Sounds pretty ultra right wing to me.

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We were declaring our independence from England - did I say anything that contradicted this?

By liberal, I was referring to the popularity today in many left wing circles to portray our founders as racist old crotchety white men.

Also remember that Thomas Jefferson was damn near as Liberal as they came back in those days. It was radical indeed to suggest the things he did. Back then, "right wingers" were those who supported the king of England and royal authority. Jefferson was a leftist rabbel rouser. Ironically, now when people use his words, they are prtrayed as right wing extremists. How times have changed.

Adam

Posted: 11/11/2001 6:21:37 AM EDT

[#11]

Ironically, now when people use his words, they are prtrayed as right wing extremists. How times have changed.

Adam[/quote]

The modern media does a very good job of shaping the debate, why I often say that Joseph Gobbeles would be proud of our media today, he would probably say "The Amerikan media is the greatest propaganda tool ever created"

Posted: 11/11/2001 6:37:24 AM EDT

[#12]

Liberal - as most things 18th century, rhetorical and political terms have very little to do with our current usage and understanding. In fact Walter Williams coined the term "illiberal" to describe the contemporary political catagory. If you wish to think of Liberal as related to Liberty, it may be easier.

The problem with labels, like shorthand, is they do a poor job of conveying ideas, unless you "understand" the language it is imbedded in.

Luck
Alac

Anyone going to take me up on Tench Coxe above? He may be the most important man, especially to folk who would haunt this board, from the Colonial period. Make sure to include your address, I assuming everyone has a Dairy Queen nearby.

Edited for clarity once again

Posted: 11/11/2001 6:43:38 AM EDT

[#13]

I have but it's been a while.
It should be mandatory reading.

Posted: 11/11/2001 6:57:26 AM EDT

[#14]

Several times along with Supreme Court decisions and the Federalist Papers. It is like a movie that you watch more than once and take something different away each time you read it.

Posted: 11/11/2001 7:25:48 AM EDT

[#15]

I read it all the time, Such a well written document, Every time I read it I find myself inspired!

Posted: 11/11/2001 7:26:41 AM EDT

[#16]

Re: Tench Coxe. [url]http://i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/hk-coxe.htm[/url]

With all due respect to Alacrity's original offer, Mr. Coxe deserves more than 50 words.

Posted: 11/11/2001 8:01:08 AM EDT

[#17]

How many have read in Poor Richards, that if you separate the Bible (King James Version) from the consititution you might as well throw away the latter.

Posted: 11/11/2001 8:03:22 AM EDT

[#18]

Nope not me. I just watch MTV and CNN. They tell me enough about life in this US. Whatever they say is good enough for me.

Posted: 11/11/2001 8:23:26 AM EDT

[#19]

I posed this question because I just ask my 17 yr. old if they had read it in school yet, and he told me the only thing they had studied about it was the Bill of Rights, and then only from the 13th amendment on.
What a joke!

Posted: 11/11/2001 8:34:39 AM EDT

[#20]

Agreed, raf, he does merit much more. But few will read that entire article (excellent btw), which is a shame. Hoped to spur some distillations so that he might be better appreciated. Always amazed at Coxe's anonimity. If you read that article you will see why.

For those who wont - Basically, you'll never find an "anti" admit Tench Coxe existed, much less cite him. His arguments for the Second Amendment leave little doubt as to its purpose. Puts to bed the "collectivist" argument To paraphrase the article - if you accept Coxe's view you beleive individuals have a right to keep and bear arms. Only briefly reviewed it, but I dont think Ive misrepresented them.

Luck
Alac

raf if you want that sundae its yours, article was better than any response I had expected

Posted: 11/11/2001 8:52:03 AM EDT

[#21]

Yah I read it, big deal! It is pretty clear to me, how we should run our government.

Today most people are so caught up in their financial status in this society, that the
words of the founding fathers are hollow
reverberations in the halls of congress and
the white house.

Credit cards, big house, 2 cars with stickers saying your kid is an honor student.

Financial portfolios made up exclusively of speculative assets, no gold, no land.

Sports minded knuckle heads who think that athletes are gods. They will spend $100s on sports PARAPHENALIA, just because they won a game.

God wrote it, Christ clarified it, and the founding fathers put it in our hands, and we still can't grasp the full intent.

L-I-B-E-R-T-Y

Posted: 11/11/2001 9:02:04 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
raf if you want that sundae its yours, article was better than any response I had expected

View Quote

Thanks, but the Dairy Queens are all closed up here now. Why not give one of your kids a sugar blast on me?

Posted: 11/11/2001 9:30:29 AM EDT

[#23]

raf - Ill save it for him, he's only 8 mos old.

heres the quote I was looking for:

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them,
may attempt to tyrannize, as the military forces which must be
occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their
power to the injury of their fellow citizens, [b]the people are
confirmed by he (SECOND) article in their right to keep and bear
their private arms."[/b] Tench Coxe, in "Remarks on the First Part
of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution." Philadelphia
Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789, emphasis added

Coxe was the "organizer" of the Federalists in Philadelphia; odd since he appeared to be a loyalist during the Revolution. Personally Ive always viewed him as the father of the Second Amendment, though obviously written by Madison.

Ar10er - Please personally correct this error. Saddened though not surprised.

Luck
Alac

Posted: 11/11/2001 9:36:09 AM EDT

[#24]

I have read the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the Communist Manifesto. I think I like our way, much better than Karl's.

Posted: 11/11/2001 9:46:06 AM EDT

[#25]

I have, about 15 years ago.

Posted: 11/11/2001 9:51:01 AM EDT

[#26]

A better question would be "who hasn't and why?"

Posted: 11/11/2001 11:40:54 AM EDT

[#27]

I am ashamed to admit that I have read the Constitution. It is an ancient document filled with outdated concepts written by loon isolationists. Their type of thinking has no place in today's modern global society.

One of your heroes, Benjamin Franklin, a "founder" as you call him, should have been committed as he was just as nuts as Bill Cooper as Franklin wrote a book on farting and sunned himself naked on the roof of his house. These were only a few of the insane things this man did and anyone that believes in ANYTHING he did should also be committed.

Posted: 11/11/2001 12:53:52 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I am ashamed to admit that I have read the Constitution. It is an ancient document filled with outdated concepts written by loon isolationists. Their type of thinking has no place in today's modern global society.

One of your heroes, Benjamin Franklin, a "founder" as you call him, should have been committed as he was just as nuts as Bill Cooper as Franklin wrote a book on farting and sunned himself naked on the roof of his house. These were only a few of the insane things this man did and anyone that believes in ANYTHING he did should also be committed.

View Quote

Really?? I don't remember Franklin pointing his blunderbuss at his neighbors......I don't remember Franklin claiming that Paul Revere made up the sightings of so called British soldiers. Nor do I remember Franklin writing about how sea travel was made up nonsense. Nor did Franklin decide the casualties at Valley Forge were and insidious Continental Congress plot. I must've missed all that, oh well some people have nothing better to do than make up lies to justifiy their paranoid delusions.

Cooper claimed that he would fight an arrest attempt with force..........why don't you believe him?

He also said that IRS agents was trying to sneak onto his land one night and was hooting like owls to keep track of each others locations. He described it as hilarious as the group of "owls" approached his residence..................................... It's a good thing he got out of the Navy because his oars weren't hitting water.

Posted: 11/11/2001 1:04:23 PM EDT

[#29]

Yes, I have read the Constitution - many years ago, perhaps I should get a copy again and see if they've made any changes recently?

But seriously... it wouldn't hurt to review the document on a regular basis... just to stay familiar - But then, I'll become a terrorist (at least in AZ), because I'll be able to quote that document.

Posted: 11/11/2001 1:10:10 PM EDT

[#30]

A consti what? What's a constuition?

Just joking. Of course I've read the constitution. Even had to memorize a good deal of it in school.

Posted: 11/11/2001 2:32:20 PM EDT

[#31]

Yep, I read it. The US. Constitution, numerous state constitutions(ones from the 1770s- all the way up to today's ones), The Declaration of Independence(I still get the chills and tears whenever I read it), the Federalist Papers, the Anti-Federalist papers, numerous writings of Madison, Henry, Washington, the CSA Constitution, Books on the South.

Everybody should also read the CSA Const. It corrects some holes in the US Const., and I would much rather live under that one, than todays.

Also, almost everybody misunderstands the purpose of the "all men are created equal" clause of the DoI. It didn't mean they are physically created equal, it meant that they are equal in authority to any gov't official, that any law that applies to citizens must apply to the government. See this page for a in depth discussion of it:
[url]http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=804&month=37&title=Equality%3A++The+Unknown+Ideal&id=38[/url]. Here is some more on Lockean Equality:
[url]http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=810&month=37&title=Locke+Versus+Rawls+on+Equality&id=38[/url]

Also, my favorite founder is without a doubt Patrick Henry. His fiery speeches, his defense of liberty, is unmatched in my opinion.