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Posted: 8/14/2006 10:05:18 AM EDT
How many Merkavas were lost in this latest conflict? Just wondering
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:07:58 AM EDT
I heard numbers of 30+

I was really suprised....
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:08:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:25:07 AM EDT
Dam that's a lot tanks lost in a month
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:27:09 AM EDT
That seems to be high. I thought the Merkava was at least as tough as the Abrams
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:28:24 AM EDT
Not all Merkava's are created equal.
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:32:06 AM EDT
30+ damaged I can beleive.  30+ lost kind of pegs my BS meter.
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:32:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 9:42:46 AM EDT
those numbers are exagerated.....  official report details were leaked this week.

as I posted in teh other thread:


official investigation on tanks has concluded and limitted findings have been released.

limitted cause 1) no specifics on models though part of the release admits majority of tanks were not 'front line newer models'. there is no mention of mk numbers in release. the unofficial word is that only 1 mk4 was disabled by direct fire, but I cannot in any way confirm.

also the release is limitted cause 2) does not discuss wounded.

numbers released were
20 tanks destroyed (out of 200 involved)
17 dead from direct hits
13 dead from mines.

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 9:48:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 9:49:43 AM EDT

Those big limpet type mines are a bitch, that's for sure.  

Just remember, tanks "LOST" doesn't mean crewmen KILLED.  An abrams can shrug off a hit from a Hellfire missile, but it won't be moving and shooting afterwards.  Survivability means just that, the CREW survives.

let me check they're wording again..... hang on.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 9:50:52 AM EDT
"anti armor missiles penetrated 20 tanks  - roughly 10%" is the exact language.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 9:53:57 AM EDT
and this is from an open source...

Four Israeli tanks hit large landmines. Three of the tanks, which lacked underbelly protective armor, lost all 12 crew members. The fourth had underbelly protective armor; of its six crew members, only one died.

Anti-tank missiles hit 46 tanks and 14 other armored vehicles. In all these attacks, the tanks sustained only 15 armor penetrations while the other armored vehicles sustained five, with 20 soldiers killed, 15 of them tank crew members. Another two Armored Corps soldiers, whose bodies were exposed, were killed. In another location, Wadi Salouki, Hezbollah carried out a successful anti-tank ambush, hitting 11 tanks. Missiles penetrated the armor of three tanks; in two of them, seven Armored Corps soldiers were killed. Two of the other tanks were immobilized.

the nubmers do add up to the recently leaked report.  20 penetrations by anti-armor missiles in both cases ('other armored vehicles' are turretles merks, so they count int he 20)
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:02:22 AM EDT
10% casualties against prepared defensive positions?

Not too shabby.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:03:38 AM EDT
I think the bigger question is who supplied them with AT missiles and what type. I heard French missiles but I bet they are Russian and brought in through Syria but payed for by Iran
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:07:13 AM EDT

I think the bigger question is who supplied them with AT missiles and what type. I heard French missiles but I bet they are Russian and brought in through Syria but payed for by Iran

top of the line russian sold with israels knowledge to syria on condition taht they would not be passed to hezbollah.  israel's ambassador recently presented the russian ambasadorwith a piece of one of the RPG's that showed exactly which shipment to syrria it had come from.

no one was surprised by their presence there.  it was the succesful tactics and employment and PERFORMANCE of the missiles that shocked the mk2 tankers.  I don't hink we'll see mk2's in combat again.  maybe they'll make them into makpadons and pumas, but not in combat.  no country uses obsolete tanks as 'tanks'.  its suicide as israel found out.

Russia is of course terribly upset at the surge in purchases that is sure to follow.  the thermobaric AP warheads worked well too.  big force multipiler against the exposed infantry.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:11:05 AM EDT

I think the bigger question is who supplied them with AT missiles and what type. I heard French missiles but I bet they are Russian and brought in through Syria but payed for by Iran

Kornet ATGM.

Most of the Merkava penetrated where type III. None of the type IV where penetrated.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:18:01 AM EDT
Tula arsenal jobs, if I remember correctly.

I think the Russians have few "rules" about being a combination cultural attache&arms dealer.  

We had a good number of M1s taken out in Iraq from a similar type of missile.  The Russians were again involved, and it probably isn't much of a secret.

It is a shame that we didn't drop a bigger hammer on that russian convoy of "ambassadors" that was fleeing to Syria during the beginning days in Iraq....actually, what I mean to say when we mistakenly fired up on the convoy that failed to stop upon order.

Whoops.  So sorry.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:21:25 AM EDT
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