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Posted: 4/16/2016 9:49:34 PM EDT
This election cycle has two authoritarians running, Trump and Sanders.   It looks like Clinton will probably win against the leftist Sanders, but it remains to be seen whether the Republican's authoritarian will be beat.  Trump still commands the support of a large minority of Republican primary voters.   ...still, it's surprising that these authoritarians are making such headway.   It got me to thinking

...how long before the republic is completely dead, and we elect a "strongman" authoritarian dictator?
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 9:51:14 PM EDT
Now, or in four years.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 9:54:41 PM EDT
someone will be along shortly to chide you, maybe defame you, laugh at you, and tell you it will never happen, that we are a long, long, way from that happening.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 9:55:28 PM EDT
Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 9:56:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2016 9:57:08 PM EDT by Qweevox]
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Now, or in four years.
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For a very long time, I've been fascinated by the fall of the Roman Republic and rise of the Roman Empire.  I pondered if the average Roman citizen realized it was happening, or if only historians, with the perspective of time, could see it.  

Link Posted: 4/16/2016 9:57:01 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By RC03:


Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.
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Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:02:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By RC03:
Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.









 

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2265266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Augusto-Pinochet.jpg




As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:03:03 PM EDT
You don't consider Hillary an authoritarian?
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:04:37 PM EDT
8 years ago
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:05:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pyrobolo:
You don't consider Hillary an authoritarian?
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Not really.

She's a leftist, but very much an establishment candidate with deep roots in corporate america.  Of course, I'd prefer she not occupy the oval office, but she's no dictator.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:07:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigtard:
8 years ago
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A wannabe; fortunately not competent to pull it off.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:08:33 PM EDT
I just want to know if a single senator or congressman will attempt to check the dictators power grab when it happens or, are we going entirely with the thunderous applause route?
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:09:00 PM EDT
Europe will see it happen first. They will look for someone to save them from their self inflicted issues and they will find a Hitler. He will seem like Charles Martel initially.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:09:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigtard:
8 years ago
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What I was thinking.  He's certainly had his way and receive liberal amounts of ass kissing from the "opposition".
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:12:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:



As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By RC03:
Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.









 

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2265266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Augusto-Pinochet.jpg




As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    




No. The Miracle of Chile would've happened without him, according to just about every article about the guy. The economic 180 that Chile experienced is always a small footnote, compared to the lengthy discussions about how horribly he treated the commies, lol.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:12:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By cmca:


What I was thinking.  He's certainly had his way and receive liberal amounts of ass kissing from the "opposition".
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Originally Posted By cmca:
Originally Posted By Bigtard:
8 years ago


What I was thinking.  He's certainly had his way and receive liberal amounts of ass kissing from the "opposition".


The worlds #1 gun salesman is a pretty pathetic authoritarian.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:13:25 PM EDT
1932?
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:13:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2016 10:16:57 PM EDT by Qweevox]
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Originally Posted By Bigtard:
8 years ago
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no

I don't think Obama fails to fill the bill.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:16:12 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
For a very long time, I've been fascinated by the fall of the Roman Republic and rise of the Roman Empire.  I pondered if the average Roman citizen realized it was happening, or if only historians, with the perspective of time, could see it.  



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Originally Posted By Qweevox:



Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Now, or in four years.







For a very long time, I've been fascinated by the fall of the Roman Republic and rise of the Roman Empire.  I pondered if the average Roman citizen realized it was happening, or if only historians, with the perspective of time, could see it.  



The average Roman probably didn't see much of a difference.  The patrician families were the ones who took the biggest hit to their political power.  Keep in mind that Rome was never a democracy.  Senators were appointed by bureaucrats and only represented the interests of the wealthiest families in the city of Rome itself.  



 
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:16:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
1932?
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Very interesting.

Yes, I'd agree that FDR was an almost dictator.  During his life, and office, he most definately moved America in the wrong directions.  But he failed to close the deal.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:17:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Now, or in four years.
View Quote


At most...
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:19:46 PM EDT
You mean like 0bama? Weaponized the US Gov't for use against his political opponents?  IRS, DOJ, ATF, all used to deprive citizens of our Constitutional Rights?   Republicans passing the buck, allowing the Zero to sign an "agreement" with Iran instead of a treaty requiring Senate ratification?



Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:23:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BillythePoet:




No. The Miracle of Chile would've happened without him, according to just about every article about the guy. The economic 180 that Chile experienced is always a small footnote, compared to the lengthy discussions about how horribly he treated the commies, lol.
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Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By RC03:
Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.









 

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2265266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Augusto-Pinochet.jpg




As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    




No. The Miracle of Chile would've happened without him, according to just about every article about the guy. The economic 180 that Chile experienced is always a small footnote, compared to the lengthy discussions about how horribly he treated the commies, lol.


Interesting.

Whether or not Chile would have made such a dramatic turnaround is debatable, I suppose.  But still, he was the head of state while they did it.  


Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:27:37 PM EDT
1988
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:27:42 PM EDT
Poll added
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:32:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mullah_Atari:
The average Roman probably didn't see much of a difference.  The patrician families were the ones who took the biggest hit to their political power.  Keep in mind that Rome was never a democracy.  Senators were appointed by bureaucrats and only represented the interests of the wealthiest families in the city of Rome itself.  
 
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Originally Posted By Mullah_Atari:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Now, or in four years.



For a very long time, I've been fascinated by the fall of the Roman Republic and rise of the Roman Empire.  I pondered if the average Roman citizen realized it was happening, or if only historians, with the perspective of time, could see it.  

The average Roman probably didn't see much of a difference.  The patrician families were the ones who took the biggest hit to their political power.  Keep in mind that Rome was never a democracy.  Senators were appointed by bureaucrats and only represented the interests of the wealthiest families in the city of Rome itself.  
 


I've also been interested in this topic for some time.

Good points MA, and I suspect that it also became less evident the further you got from Rome.

As for realizing that it was happening, I think that's less common like in Weimar Germany. For us? Hard to say.

Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:34:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mossberg:


The worlds #1 gun salesman is a pretty pathetic authoritarian.
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Originally Posted By Mossberg:
Originally Posted By cmca:
Originally Posted By Bigtard:
8 years ago


What I was thinking.  He's certainly had his way and receive liberal amounts of ass kissing from the "opposition".


The worlds #1 gun salesman is a pretty pathetic authoritarian.

The guy uses government bureaucracies to attack his political enemies.

That's fairly authoritarian.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:36:30 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Mossberg:
The worlds #1 gun salesman is a pretty pathetic authoritarian.
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Originally Posted By Mossberg:



Originally Posted By cmca:


Originally Posted By Bigtard:

8 years ago




What I was thinking.  He's certainly had his way and receive liberal amounts of ass kissing from the "opposition".




The worlds #1 gun salesman is a pretty pathetic authoritarian.
He is one SCOTUS appointment away from achieving his dream.



 
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:39:55 PM EDT
Little over 7 years ago
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:42:16 PM EDT
Sanders is a big pussy.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:44:55 PM EDT
2008.

"I have a pen and a phone."
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:49:47 PM EDT
Hillary Clinton is not authoritarian?  In what alternate universe?



Clinton is American version of Evita Peron.  She will rule with an iron fist if elected.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:50:00 PM EDT
4-8 years...   we are doomed...
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:51:23 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    

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Originally Posted By Qweevox:



Originally Posted By primuspilum:


Originally Posted By RC03:

Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.







 



http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2265266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Augusto-Pinochet.jpg









As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    



Our economy would actually benefit from some of his "reforms".



 
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:51:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2016 10:53:54 PM EDT by PerfectTommy]
Explain how Trump or Hilldog is an authoritarian?   What have they said they would forcibly do.  Even Ole Choom Choom never said he would go around congress.  He HAS but it wasnt something he said he would do when he ran.  Now Bernie, hasnt said either, but I dont think you can do what he is recommending with out ruling as an authoritarian.  Maybe bernie has, I havent heard for sure.

eta, I do think Hilldog would continue crap like using agencies to her own ends, like the IRS.  Choom Choom did it, so it is a fair tool to use now.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:04:29 PM EDT
Nobody said 2001? Patriot Act, NDAAs with removal of posse commitatus and indefinite detention of Americans, warrantless wiretaps, etc? The Neocon Republicans moved the needle significantly to the authoritarian side. Someone else may finish the job, but Bush & Cheney started it.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:09:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:


Interesting.

Whether or not Chile would have made such a dramatic turnaround is debatable, I suppose.  But still, he was the head of state while they did it.  


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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By RC03:
Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.









 

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2265266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Augusto-Pinochet.jpg




As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    




No. The Miracle of Chile would've happened without him, according to just about every article about the guy. The economic 180 that Chile experienced is always a small footnote, compared to the lengthy discussions about how horribly he treated the commies, lol.


Interesting.

Whether or not Chile would have made such a dramatic turnaround is debatable, I suppose.  But still, he was the head of state while they did it.  





That was sarcasm on my part. The coup he led was completely responsible for turning that country around. I also don't have much problem with how he treated leftist leaders like the cancer they are. Of course they are headed back down the same path now that they are electing officials again.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:21:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BillythePoet:



That was sarcasm on my part. The coup he led was completely responsible for turning that country around. I also don't have much problem with how he treated leftist leaders like the cancer they are. Of course they are headed back down the same path now that they are electing officials again.
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Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:



As dictators go, I think Augusto Pinochet is probably the least offensive that the US has supported.    




No. The Miracle of Chile would've happened without him, according to just about every article about the guy. The economic 180 that Chile experienced is always a small footnote, compared to the lengthy discussions about how horribly he treated the commies, lol.


Interesting.

Whether or not Chile would have made such a dramatic turnaround is debatable, I suppose.  But still, he was the head of state while they did it.  





That was sarcasm on my part. The coup he led was completely responsible for turning that country around. I also don't have much problem with how he treated leftist leaders like the cancer they are. Of course they are headed back down the same path now that they are electing officials again.



Anarcho-monarchist use to seem absurd to me.  

But if a territory lucked up on the right king, it might actually be preferable to the kind of democratic republic we have.  If a ,King were committed to upholding natural rights, and only cared about his own power and wealth, it might be cheaper on the rest of us to support one king, instead of having to pay off legalist and bureaucrats as we do.

It's a controversial idea to say the least, but intriguing.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:24:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
someone will be along shortly to chide you, maybe defame you, laugh at you, and tell you it will never happen, that we are a long, long, way from that happening.
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Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:26:48 PM EDT
2001-present
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:28:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:

Anarcho-monarchist use to seem absurd to me.  

But if a territory lucked up on the right king, it might actually be preferable to the kind of democratic republic we have.  If a ,King were committed to upholding natural rights, and only cared about his own power and wealth, it might be cheaper on the rest of us to support one king, instead of having to pay off legalist and bureaucrats as we do.

It's a controversial idea to say the least, but intriguing.
View Quote


The problem with monarchy, though, is that eventually nepotism creeps in, especially with hereditary monarchies. (Remember, it took only three generations or so for Rome to go from Augustus the Great to Caligua the Mad.)
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:28:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:


Not really.

She's a leftist, but very much an establishment candidate with deep roots in corporate america.  Of course, I'd prefer she not occupy the oval office, but she's no dictator.  
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By pyrobolo:
You don't consider Hillary an authoritarian?


Not really.

She's a leftist, but very much an establishment candidate with deep roots in corporate america.  Of course, I'd prefer she not occupy the oval office, but she's no dictator.  



What?  She's a fucking Stalinist from the fucking word go.  Study more.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:45:07 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Now, or in four years.

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I'm leaning this way.



 
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:59:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Headless_Ned:


The problem with monarchy, though, is that eventually nepotism creeps in, especially with hereditary monarchies. (Remember, it took only three generations or so for Rome to go from Augustus the Great to Caligua the Mad.)
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Originally Posted By Headless_Ned:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:

Anarcho-monarchist use to seem absurd to me.  

But if a territory lucked up on the right king, it might actually be preferable to the kind of democratic republic we have.  If a ,King were committed to upholding natural rights, and only cared about his own power and wealth, it might be cheaper on the rest of us to support one king, instead of having to pay off legalist and bureaucrats as we do.

It's a controversial idea to say the least, but intriguing.


The problem with monarchy, though, is that eventually nepotism creeps in, especially with hereditary monarchies. (Remember, it took only three generations or so for Rome to go from Augustus the Great to Caligua the Mad.)

The Communist dynasty in imperial China seems to have solved this problem. They retain a dictatorial central authority, but with term limits and selection by a privy council. It assures smooth handover, without messy squabbles based on blood claims or divine rights.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 12:01:34 AM EDT
Obama already proved rule of law is over.  No non-constitutionalist candidate will every back away from that power again.  Maybe if low information voters did not exist we would have a chance to save our nation - but that is not and never will be the case again.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 12:35:15 AM EDT
Fri, Jan 20, 2017
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 1:08:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
This election cycle has two authoritarians running, Trump and Sanders.   It looks like Clinton will probably win against the leftist Sanders, but it remains to be seen whether the Republican's authoritarian will be beat.  Trump still commands the support of a large minority of Republican primary voters.   ...still, it's surprising that these authoritarians are making such headway.   It got me to thinking

...how long before the republic is completely dead, and we elect a "strongman" authoritarian dictator?
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That will be everybodys best gal, Hillary. Trump has been marginalized by the GOP Establishment, and Lyin' Ted has no chance against Hillary the carpetbagger.

It's over folks... it was a good run, but it's time to kiss America goodbye, hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" like good little serfs.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 1:17:02 AM EDT
Trump is gonnna make Merica Great...



What does Authoritarian mean?
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 1:30:17 AM EDT
Fail. No one said FDR or LBJ yet.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:55:26 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By RC03:
Probably won't happen this election, but it's going to happen.









 

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2265266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Augusto-Pinochet.jpg



Don't forget it was the CIA that put this guy into power.  Allende was ELECTED by the people of Chile in spite of ITT and the CIA.  Makes you wonder what would happen if Trump was elected president.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:57:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:


Not really.

She's a leftist, but very much an establishment candidate with deep roots in corporate america.  Of course, I'd prefer she not occupy the oval office, but she's no dictator.  
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By pyrobolo:
You don't consider Hillary an authoritarian?


Not really.

She's a leftist, but very much an establishment candidate with deep roots in corporate america.  Of course, I'd prefer she not occupy the oval office, but she's no dictator.  


She only hired thugs to intimidate women that accused Bill of sexual harassment and even rape. I guess that would make her a dictator in training.
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