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Posted: 8/20/2004 5:58:58 PM EST
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - HL Mencken

I was thinking about this qoute in particular and let myself question myself by taking it to an extreme dimension. It s a strange question to ask yourself how far you'd go.

Lemme run through a hypothetical.

10 some years in the future, a serious terrorist attack kills a hundred thousand or more American citizens in a major population center, President Nader (or Badnarik if you wish Im trying to take the hypothetical out of current political context) appears on TV Immedietly and loses it...

Ordering the military to go into full scale reprisals against every nation currently percieved to be hostile, unfriendly or rogue... any state critical to this course is added to the target list. Missilles are outbound to China, North Korea and the more industrialized. Forward deployed forces are ordered to fight thier way to friendly territory and leave nothing but scorched earth behind.

Rationing is announced, Canada and Mexico are Annexed without hesitation... Defense contractors are awarded blanket unlimited contracts for every item in the inventory, from Aircraft Carriers to boots. A blanket draft is announced as well with no 4-f category.

Stopping short of declaring martial law a blanket pardon is issued for killing subversives or Draft resistors...

The term "Wargasm" is used without shame or fear by the president... It is clear that is whats happenning.

... Heres where the really sticky moral question arises, knowing that the majority of the population on Earth will most likely be dead within a year do you raise the black flag, fight or ignore it.

Is it Manifest destiny till the whole world is USA, or is it time to beat feet?

How high does that sucker get hoisted before you stop pulling on the rope?

Now for the kicker, Aside from going back to a WW2 mindset against the hippy types and rationing the Constitution remains intact...

So what is it... where is it, do we ever flip and become Anti-Americans, should we ever, can we ever?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:05:14 PM EST
"The whole world is USA" has a nice ring to it
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:05:37 PM EST
Anarchy, chaos theory politics, social meltdown. Call it what you will. There is no predicting with what you have described.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:06:08 PM EST
I get back to ya..........
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:16:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:18:05 PM EST
time to loosen the tinfoil
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:25:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By SNorman:
"The whole world is USA" has a nice ring to it



Lord, no. Most of the world is a shit-hole. I'd stop with annexing Canada.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:27:08 PM EST
see my avatar.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:31:31 PM EST
Laughingly implausible.

More likely is 12+ years in the future, after two terms of democratic leadership, the US suffers a huge nuclear attack on NYC, LA and SF. Hillary proceeds to acquiesce to every terrorist demand to prevent future loss of American life.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:37:37 PM EST
Not a matter of "plausibility" hence the President Nader comment...

Its an internal moral question wrapped up in a campy B movie scenario but the extremism is necessary cuase we never think that far out precisely because of how implausible it is.

Say it becomes plausible (this is what we call a hypothetical) , how far do you go?

I think I know my answer but I'll hold off until I get some other perspectives.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:41:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:41:53 PM EST
Your ideas are fascinating and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:44:27 PM EST
Been there, done that, got way too many t-shirts.

Cold Warrior
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:46:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
...The Democrats would cease to exist as a party - most of it's voters come from those three cities plus Chicago and a couple of the other big ones.




I could only hope. But the damage would be done.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:47:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:

Originally Posted By SNorman:
"The whole world is USA" has a nice ring to it



Lord, no. Most of the world is a shit-hole. I'd stop with annexing Canada.

GunLvr




+1
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:57:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - HL Mencken


Only if they try and touch my monkey!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:27:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:

Originally Posted By SNorman:
"The whole world is USA" has a nice ring to it



Lord, no. Most of the world is a shit-hole. I'd stop with annexing Canada.

GunLvr



Ok, fine, how about: "The whole world is USA or glass"?

Seriously, though, think about the personal analogy. If someone says to me: "I'm going to kill you", I take them at face value, and one of us will die. I don't have the time or inclination to try to analyze their childhood and/or possible communication handicaps. If a country says to us "We're going to destroy you", we should take them at face value and remove them from existence.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:43:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - HL Mencken

I was thinking about this qoute in particular and let myself question myself by taking it to an extreme dimension. It s a strange question to ask yourself how far you'd go.

Lemme run through a hypothetical.

10 some years in the future, a serious terrorist attack kills a hundred thousand or more American citizens in a major population center, President Nader (or Badnarik if you wish Im trying to take the hypothetical out of current political context) appears on TV Immedietly and loses it...

Ordering the military to go into full scale reprisals against every nation currently percieved to be hostile, unfriendly or rogue... any state critical to this course is added to the target list. Missilles are outbound to China, North Korea and the more industrialized. Forward deployed forces are ordered to fight thier way to friendly territory and leave nothing but scorched earth behind.

Rationing is announced, Canada and Mexico are Annexed without hesitation... Defense contractors are awarded blanket unlimited contracts for every item in the inventory, from Aircraft Carriers to boots. A blanket draft is announced as well with no 4-f category.

Stopping short of declaring martial law a blanket pardon is issued for killing subversives or Draft resistors...

The term "Wargasm" is used without shame or fear by the president... It is clear that is whats happenning.

... Heres where the really sticky moral question arises, knowing that the majority of the population on Earth will most likely be dead within a year do you raise the black flag, fight or ignore it.

Is it Manifest destiny till the whole world is USA, or is it time to beat feet?

How high does that sucker get hoisted before you stop pulling on the rope?

Now for the kicker, Aside from going back to a WW2 mindset against the hippy types and rationing the Constitution remains intact...

So what is it... where is it, do we ever flip and become Anti-Americans, should we ever, can we ever?



The minute it becomes 'KILL KILL KILL' instead of reasoned, strategic maneuvering, at THAT POINT we have seen the enemy and it is us...

The point where instead of trying to 'fix' the rest of the world thru precision operations, we just burn it down...

Then we become the monster in the mirror...

I would hope that day never comes...
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:53:32 PM EST
Dude. What are you talking about?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:22:26 PM EST
L7 does indeed rock .
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:26:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
time to loosen the tinfoil


Sheesh. You aren't kidding.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:33:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 8:34:24 PM EST by M4]

Originally Posted By whs78:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - HL Mencken





There are people who do think they're normal, who already have subscribed to this philosophy, and there are hundreds of thousands still around JUST like'em....
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:07:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 9:19:04 PM EST by Katana16j]
Excellent counterpoint

Personally I'm of the philosophy of in for a penny, in for a pound...

But the really agonizing caveat is that its only so long as the republic stands, and while flying airliners into buildings would be a very clear sign that the republic no longer existed. I do find it morally cogent to question where that line is, even though I feel we aren't near crossing it.. nor do I believe we ever will.

I really do pose this out of genuine moral curiosity (not out of any Imbroglio like desire to troll, incite and agitate).

I think its like the statement about porn to the effect of knowing it when you see it but not being able to define it. I don't know where that line is, but I'll know it if we ever cross it...

Maybe Im arrogant enough to think that it won't be a problem, ever. Maybe I'm putting to much stock in my ideals and the ideals that this country was founded on to think so... but thats my take.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:13:04 PM EST
I personally would toss every bit of humanity to the wind and take the title I had earned in the Army. Get me my scythe and robe. Death will walk the earth again.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:39:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 7:39:39 AM EST
*bump*
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 7:47:43 AM EST
Do you have any idea how large the nuclear warheads are on China's ICBMs? Do you have any comprehension of how many U.S. cities would be reduced to sheets of glass??

If a U.S. president were to try to lauch a full-scale nuclear attack against China - probably our biggest trading partner at that point in time - for no rational reason whatsoever, I'd like to think that someone (V.P., the white hosue physician, his cabinet, I dunno?) would somehow relieve him of command.

So while I can imagine (heaven forbid) a terorrist attack that kills 100K people - I cannot imagine an unprovoked nuclear attack on China.



If you can - the tinfoil really is too tight.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 8:24:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 8:25:22 AM EST by BayEagle]
I believe in the "Just War" doctrine. What you describe is not "Just". Nor is it American to reduce ourselves to barbarism.

The leadership of our enemies is fair game. Imagine if the German plotters against Hitler (Rommel, et al.) had been supported and succeeded. Wanna let loose the Dogs of War and start sending US or hired hit squads to hunt these f***ers down - maybe. Scorched earth and genocide - no.
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