How good are we at hunting subs?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How good are we at hunting subs? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:07:54 PM EDT

I've read quite a bit about how NK has a shit ton of aging but effective diesel electric subs. With at least one carrier group heading that way what is the risk level? I know there's a good chance some aren't all that seaworthy but how good are the ones that work. I know we could thrash the surface navy but the subs worry me. Anyone "in the know" who could shed some light? Is there any risk to a carrier group?

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:10:26 PM EDT

[#1]

we can tell when the capt farts

no one can say anything else that is in the know

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:10:31 PM EDT

[#2]

diesel subs are loud compared to nuclear

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:12:48 PM EDT

[#3]

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diesel subs are loud compared to nuclear

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That is 50% true.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:13:03 PM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:
diesel subs are loud compared to nuclear

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Only when they're snorkeling.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:13:04 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:
diesel subs are loud compared to nuclear

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Thought they were quieter due to running on batteries and no reactor noise.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:13:27 PM EDT

[#6]

not as good as we once were.

What has the navy focused on for the past 20 years in terms of real world missions, training, and weapons development? AAW, BMD, and strike

What has fell to the back burner? ASW and ASuW.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:14:23 PM EDT

[#7]

Those in the know won't say.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:14:34 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:

Only when they're snorkeling.

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you know what i meant

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:14:42 PM EDT

[#9]

What I picture when I hear North Korean sub.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:17:26 PM EDT

[#10]

A lot better than the rest of the world. Combined.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:18:01 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
diesel subs are loud compared to nuclear

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On batteries at low speed near shore? LOL no.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:19:39 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
What I picture when I hear North Korean sub.
http://i.imgur.com/clyMomj.jpg

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Antifa girls dildo.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:20:15 PM EDT

[#13]

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ted By MILLERLGT82:
we can tell when the capt farts

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Failed To Load Title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie0L0EIWR4A

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:21:10 PM EDT

[#14]

You all need to play a game called "Captain Sonar" if you like subs and shit like that.
Fucking awesome game!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC2fSXbG0rg

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:21:56 PM EDT

[#15]

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A lot better than the rest of the world. Combined.

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I'm not current. But back in the day there were a couple of non US ASW platforms that had a higher pucker factor than many of ours.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:22:47 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:
Thought they were quieter due to running on batteries and no reactor noise.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
diesel subs are loud compared to nuclear

Thought they were quieter due to running on batteries and no reactor noise.

How long does running on batteries last? What happens when the batteries run out?

What kind of noise does a reactor make? What part of the reactor makes noise?

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:23:30 PM EDT

[#17]

Finding a DE sub that's just sitting is tough, very very tough.

Sit in front of the group, let the group steam over then pop up.

It's suicide for an attacking sub, but when comparing a NK old sub value vs a carrier or even a burk destroyer, it's a win for the sub.

If we sink every sub of theirs but they get one hit on something high value, they win the pr war.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:24:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Jonesey can hear seismic anomalies....like whales humping....

ETA: Also, magma displacement.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:26:25 PM EDT

[#19]

One ping ronery.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:26:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Were so good at hunting subs in this country it's caused an entire industry to come about.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:28:17 PM EDT

[#21]

We did find the Red October. So...

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:29:36 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
Were so good at hunting subs in this country it's caused an entire industry to come about.

http://slappedham.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Subway.jpg https://marioncvb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/firehouse-subs.jpg
http://www.vector-logo.net/logo_preview/eps/q/Quiznos_Subs_3.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Cousins_Submarines_%28Cousins_Subs%29_Logo.jpg/220px-Cousins_Submarines_%28Cousins_Subs%29_Logo.jpg http://image.mapmuse.com/images/all/logo_JRECK_SUBS.gif

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What does a NK "sub" of this class look like? Mouse bones on stale bread?

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:38:59 PM EDT

[#23]

Think about it. How many ports do the NORKs have submarines in? Any that leave have one place to exit. Any NORK sub left port somebody knows about. And I would suspect someone is watching any submarine that left in the last several days, and a diesel boat cant stay silent forever

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:45:16 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
not as good as we once were.

What has the navy focused on for the past 20 years in terms of real world missions, training, and weapons development? AAW, BMD, and strike

What has fell to the back burner? ASW and ASuW.

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Not true

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:49:03 PM EDT

[#25]

We were pretty damn good at it when I was flying ASW in the 80's... But I believe our ASW has been downgraded since then.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:52:06 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

How long does running on batteries last? What happens when the batteries run out?

What kind of noise does a reactor make? What part of the reactor makes noise?

View Quote

Depends on the sub as to duration.
When the batteries run low, the sub can surface or "snorkel" and run diesel while charging.
The Russians (USSR) had some very quiet diesel electrics, and many countries including the U.K. still use them.

A reactor does make some noise that is mostly isolated by mounts and shielding.
From water moving through pipes to spinning the turbine.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:56:42 PM EDT

[#27]

The Nork's subs are not Deep Blue water subs. They are not going hundreds of miles off shore. Our CV's are quite safe from the North's subs.
Yes the DE boats are quitter than Nuke Boats but only have a limited time underwater before having to come to Periscope Depth (PD) or surfacing to snorkel so they can recharge their batteries. There newest class sub it a Russian Kilo class DE. It is a fairly good boat, but only as good as the submariners onboard. But bet your shiniest nickel that we can track anything out there without being tracked.

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:59:31 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
We were pretty damn good at it when I was flying ASW in the 80's... But I believe our ASW has been downgraded since then.

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P8 Poseidon it what you are looking for and SH60R. I go to the ranges 6 times a year. These guys do quit well now, and I cheer for the Submarine team!

Posted: 4/18/2017 5:59:33 PM EDT

[#29]

In the littorals?

We suck at that.

All our ASW efforts over the last 50 years were mostly focused on hunting Russians in blue water open seas.

Iran and NK won't attack us there; they will deploy their meager (but suicidal) assets in the littorals.

Hope we have been preparing for this!

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:01:47 PM EDT

[#30]

about 20 years ago a fellow out Cumberland ga. told me they knew when soviet Alphas left Archangel while sitting off Puerto Rico.

He may have been talking shit, who knows

diesel subs use the engines only to charge batteries they run silent off the batteries & are damn quiet. the chicoms had one surface a few miles from the USS Kitty Hawk around 2003ish

the nork ones are copies of the German late WW2 designs.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:01:52 PM EDT

[#31]

Tracking is generally only as good as the analysts interpreting the data. Let's hope that the people looking at satellite data aren't having a bad day.

That said I doubt the Norks are clever enough to pull off a subterfuge that involves one of their subs vanishing out of port and replaced with a dummy sub while the other stalks fleet assets.

I wouldn't put it past the norks to lay a bunch of mines.

No, no expertise here. Just a harmless opinion and I defer to the real experts.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:04:02 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Depends on the sub as to duration.
When the batteries run low, the sub can surface or "snorkel" and run diesel while charging.
The Russians (USSR) had some very quiet diesel electrics, and many countries including the U.K. still use them.

A reactor does make some noise that is mostly isolated by mounts and shielding.
From water moving through pipes to spinning the turbine.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

How long does running on batteries last? What happens when the batteries run out?

What kind of noise does a reactor make? What part of the reactor makes noise?

Depends on the sub as to duration.
When the batteries run low, the sub can surface or "snorkel" and run diesel while charging.
The Russians (USSR) had some very quiet diesel electrics, and many countries including the U.K. still use them.

A reactor does make some noise that is mostly isolated by mounts and shielding.
From water moving through pipes to spinning the turbine.

I would assume that a guy named SSNDude probably was asking that in a rhetorical manner

As for batteries? where do you think all those recalled samsung galaxy batteries ended up?

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:05:25 PM EDT

[#33]

So are "depth charges" the still go to? Or do we "ping" them with choppers/p8's and then torpedo them? No idea how this works these days. My point of reference is little more than seeing ww2 wolfpack documentaries on the history channel.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:09:06 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Tracking is generally only as good as the analysts interpreting the data. Let's hope that the people looking at satellite data aren't having a bad day.

That said I doubt the Norks are clever enough to pull off a subterfuge that involves one of their subs vanishing out of port and replaced with a dummy sub while the other stalks fleet assets.

I wouldn't put it past the norks to lay a bunch of mines.

No, no expertise here. Just a harmless opinion and I defer to the real experts.

View Quote

you've lost another submarine, Kim?

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:12:03 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
about 20 years ago a fellow out Cumberland ga. told me they knew when soviet Alphas left Archangel while sitting off Puerto Rico.

He may have been talking shit, who knows

diesel subs use the engines only to charge batteries they run silent off the batteries & are damn quiet. the chicoms had one surface a few miles from the USS Kitty Hawk around 2003ish

the nork ones are copies of the German late WW2 designs.

View Quote

Alphas weren't really meant to be all that quiet. Liquid metal cooled reactor crammed in a Ti hull that was meant to keep up with or be faster than CVN's. I think they were widely considered to be quite noisy and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that SOSUS could hear certain tones from a good ways off.

I think the AIP boats can give the 688i's a good run for their money (probably better than good) Seawolf..who knows...Virginia more focused on littorals...maybe they have an advantage on the AIP's but it's a sensor advantage, the AIP stuff doesn't make much noise from what indicated by public sources.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:12:38 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
So are "depth charges" the still go to? Or do we "ping" them with choppers/p8's and then torpedo them? No idea how this works these days. My point of reference is little more than seeing ww2 wolfpack documentaries on the history channel.

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No ping necessary. But can if they want to.
Torpedo them via:
MK 54 or MK 46 SVTT Helo or Fixed wing shot.
Mk 48 MOD 7 SEABASS Submarine shot.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:14:08 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Alphas weren't really meant to be all that quiet. Liquid metal cooled reactor crammed in a Ti hull that was meant to keep up with or be faster than CVN's. I think they were widely considered to be quite noisy and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that SOSUS could hear certain tones from a good ways off.

I think the AIP boats can give the 688i's a good run for their money (probably better than good) Seawolf..who knows...Virginia more focused on littorals...maybe they have an advantage on the AIP's but it's a sensor advantage, the AIP stuff doesn't make much noise from what indicated by public sources.

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This. But the VA can do it all also.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:14:14 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
What does a NK "sub" of this class look like? Mouse bones on stale bread?

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Grass on grass-bread

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:16:18 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
So are "depth charges" the still go to? Or do we "ping" them with choppers/p8's and then torpedo them? No idea how this works these days. My point of reference is little more than seeing ww2 wolfpack documentaries on the history channel.

View Quote

In the good old days

DBF

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:19:18 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

In the good old days

http://www.destroyers.org/photos-images/photos-dd-501-999/p-dd-806-asroc.jpg

DBF

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LOL Just shipped out 2 ASROCS Exercises today to a DDG.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:21:48 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Alphas weren't really meant to be all that quiet. Liquid metal cooled reactor crammed in a Ti hull that was meant to keep up with or be faster than CVN's. I think they were widely considered to be quite noisy and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that SOSUS could hear certain tones from a good ways off.

I think the AIP boats can give the 688i's a good run for their money (probably better than good) Seawolf..who knows...Virginia more focused on littorals...maybe they have an advantage on the AIP's but it's a sensor advantage, the AIP stuff doesn't make much noise from what indicated by public sources.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
about 20 years ago a fellow out Cumberland ga. told me they knew when soviet Alphas left Archangel while sitting off Puerto Rico.

He may have been talking shit, who knows

diesel subs use the engines only to charge batteries they run silent off the batteries & are damn quiet. the chicoms had one surface a few miles from the USS Kitty Hawk around 2003ish

the nork ones are copies of the German late WW2 designs.

Alphas weren't really meant to be all that quiet. Liquid metal cooled reactor crammed in a Ti hull that was meant to keep up with or be faster than CVN's. I think they were widely considered to be quite noisy and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that SOSUS could hear certain tones from a good ways off.

I think the AIP boats can give the 688i's a good run for their money (probably better than good) Seawolf..who knows...Virginia more focused on littorals...maybe they have an advantage on the AIP's but it's a sensor advantage, the AIP stuff doesn't make much noise from what indicated by public sources.

I think it is pretty basic hydrodynamics that if you push something underwater faster than the USS Enterprise, it is going to be louder than the current spillway at Oroville Dam.

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:23:57 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

I think it is pretty basic hydrodynamics that if you push something underwater faster than the USS Enterprise, it is going to be louder than the current spillway at Oroville Dam.

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GOTO 105% on the Reactor!

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:24:57 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
LOL Just shipped out 2 ASROCS Exercises today to a DDG.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

In the good old days

http://www.destroyers.org/photos-images/photos-dd-501-999/p-dd-806-asroc.jpg

DBF

LOL Just shipped out 2 ASROCS Exercises today to a DDG.

I was thinking about the ASROCS with the "special" warheads.

HD Dominic Swordfish 1962

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8f9gqq0imc

Posted: 4/18/2017 6:26:35 PM EDT

[#44]

I retired out of the IUSS (SOSUS) community 21 years ago. We were very good at our jobs. Now i dont know but i imagine we still have the assets in place to keep track of what is going on. NK qsubs have very limited range like 1500miles without support. That would be the biggest limiting factor. So far as the battle group dealing with subs, normally there will be an asset there who can shadow any sub that might leave port. They will send them for one last dive upon outer doors opening.