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Posted: 7/22/2008 1:26:39 AM EDT
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:29:16 AM EDT
If the demos now in congress have no fear of a veto they have free reign to vote in any laws they see fit.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:36:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?


Obama = Democratic Party leader (at least in name).

Obama: "Senator Feinsqoggle, can you introduce a bill that will create draconian penalties for people who own guns?"

Feinsquoggle: "Sure, Prez, I have one in my purse right now, let me dig it out. It is called "The Mr. And Mrs. America, Hand In Your Guns" bill. And anyone in Congress that doesn't vote for it will be denied ANY participation in ANY of the many committees that Congress creates."
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:36:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
If the demos now in congress have no fear of a veto they have free reign to vote in any laws they see fit.


Yupper.

You need counterbalance, or Washington will run amuck with socialist horseshit.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:39:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 1:41:35 AM EDT by _DR]
It would require a majority in the house and senate, but that occurs with Barry Hussein in the oval office, we could see draconian changes on the scale of what happened in Australia.

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there enough enough of them in the congress.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:43:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 1:43:32 AM EDT by DallasLooterShooter]

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:49:49 AM EDT
If DC can spit in the face of Heller and prohibit semiautos, B. Hussein Obama could very well sign a bill banning all semi autos.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:52:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
It would require a majority in the house and senate, but that occurs with Barry Hussein in the oval office, we could see draconian changes on the scale of what happened in Australia.

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there enough enough of them in the congress.


No way they'd ever get enough States to ratify an amendment to repeal part of the bill of rights.

No need to, either. The Bill of Rights, along with the rest of the Constitution can be safely ignored without fear of consequence.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:54:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?


Yeah, because we can really count on democrats to prevent further infringements on the RKBA...



Link Posted: 7/22/2008 2:09:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?



Check back during Clinton's presidency. Lawsuits against gun industry, magazine capacity restriction, assualt weapons ban, and so on. If we do not learn and forget our history shit is going to come back and bite us again.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 2:42:58 AM EDT
Nagin in NOLA gave it a shot
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 2:43:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ireload:

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?



Check back during Clinton's presidency. Lawsuits against gun industry, magazine capacity restriction, assualt weapons ban, and so on. If we do not learn and forget our history shit is going to come back and bite us again.


You are correct on that. They can skirt the 2nd Amendment by bankrupting the gun industry through legislation allowing anyone to sue a manufacturer if their firearm was used to commit a crime. Defending a waive of lawsuits could put any firearm manufacturer out of business and then the Democrats have done indirectly what they could not do directly.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 2:50:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DallasLooterShooter:

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.



NOt really so good on the whole amending the constitution thing , are ya?

How do you purpose they will get 2/3's of the states to ratify that, when 48 states have CCW and 90% people support the meaning of the second amendment supports an individual right to bear arms?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 2:56:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:

Originally Posted By DallasLooterShooter:

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.



NOt really so good on the whole amending the constitution thing , are ya?

How do you purpose they will get 2/3's of the states to ratify that, when 48 states have CCW and 90% people support the meaning of the second amendment supports an individual right to bear arms?


Ratification takes 3/4 of the States.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:04:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 3:05:07 AM EDT by DragoMuseveni]

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:

Originally Posted By DallasLooterShooter:

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.



NOt really so good on the whole amending the constitution thing , are ya?

How do you purpose they will get 2/3's of the states to ratify that, when 48 states have CCW and 90% people support the meaning of the second amendment supports an individual right to bear arms?


Ratification takes 3/4 of the States.


An Executive order declaring martial law only takes the stroke of a pen.

If Congress,the courts, and the white house are ruled by the democrates that's all it would take because the checks wouldn't say a damn thing.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:06:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:

Originally Posted By DallasLooterShooter:

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.



NOt really so good on the whole amending the constitution thing , are ya?

How do you purpose they will get 2/3's of the states to ratify that, when 48 states have CCW and 90% people support the meaning of the second amendment supports an individual right to bear arms?


Ratification takes 3/4 of the States.


An Executive order declaring martial law only takes the stroke of a pen.

If Congress,the courts, and the white house are ruled by the democrates that's all it would take because the checks wouldn't say a damn thing.


The President doesn't have the authority to declare martial law.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:08:30 AM EDT
They will go after ammunition, not guns. Regulate ammunition as an explosive or something like that.

Ted Kennedy already wanted to ban "dangerous cop-killer" ammunition including such common calibers as .30-30 under the guise of Police Protection Legislation because rifle bullets can penetrate common body armor.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:11:25 AM EDT
Doesn't the president also nominate Supreme Court justices?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:12:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

An Executive order declaring martial law only takes the stroke of a pen.

If Congress,the courts, and the white house are ruled by the democrates that's all it would take because the checks wouldn't say a damn thing.


The President doesn't have the authority to declare martial law.


Yeah keep beliving that. Just like the Mayor of DC doesn't have the authority to ban handguns.

If the courts and congress are all carrying the party line no one's going to say "President Obama, you can't delcare martial law" and there are enough Jack Boot Thug wannabes out there(even on ARFCOM) that would gladly follow such an order.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:12:54 AM EDT
I wouldn't put it past an a Obama staffer to come here and seek advice on how to start gun confiscation once he's in office. Trust me, Americans are stupid enough to put him in office.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:20:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

Originally Posted By ireload:

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?



Check back during Clinton's presidency. Lawsuits against gun industry, magazine capacity restriction, assualt weapons ban, and so on. If we do not learn and forget our history shit is going to come back and bite us again.


You are correct on that. They can skirt the 2nd Amendment by bankrupting the gun industry through legislation allowing anyone to sue a manufacturer if their firearm was used to commit a crime. Defending a waive of lawsuits could put any firearm manufacturer out of business and then the Democrats have done indirectly what they could not do directly.


If Obama's smart - and I personally think he is, he'll stay away from gun control. If he wins, like all presidential races, it'll be by the narrowest margins.

I'd say your guns are safe UNTIL you have another VT or Columbine. Then the democrats will introduce "common sense" regulation - tighter controls on handguns, AWBs, etc. etc.

Of course, you don't have to worry about this if you vote for McCain....
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:21:54 AM EDT
Do you think that Obama wants to get rid of guns so badly that he is willing to risk a complete loss of power by the Dems?

Look at what happened to Congress after the '94 ban and how long it took them to regain power. Hell, check out Bill Clinton's book. He freely admits that the AWB caused a Congreaaional power shift.

Sticking to the party line is one thing but history has proven this to be dangerous for Democrats. Obama is not Feinstein or McCarthy. Banning guns is low on his list.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:31:22 AM EDT
The Supreme Court will save us! I am of course crossing my fingers on that..

Good luck on the gun confiscation thing. Theres not many things left in this world to make a real stand on, but for me thats one of em. Its shitty that they have to send cops (instead of ATF) to come do it.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:31:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 3:45:10 AM EDT by jmarkma]
That's easy, use the UN. He slipped in a provision banning of small arms and ammunition into his world poverty bill late last year.

www.opencongress.org/bill/110-s2433/text

Specifically the Millennium Development Project.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:39:48 AM EDT
After Obama is done raising my taxes and ruining my lifestyle I am not going to have any money to worry about guns.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:45:31 AM EDT
Written test's
Huge fee's for every transaction
Firearm owners ID's that can be revoked by police
He can ban imports with the stroke of a pen.
Put BATF on a witch hunt against every FFL.
Basically make life hell for gun owners.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:46:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:

Originally Posted By DallasLooterShooter:

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.



NOt really so good on the whole amending the constitution thing , are ya?

How do you purpose they will get 2/3's of the states to ratify that, when 48 states have CCW and 90% people support the meaning of the second amendment supports an individual right to bear arms?


Ratification takes 3/4 of the States.


An Executive order declaring martial law only takes the stroke of a pen.

If Congress,the courts, and the white house are ruled by the democrates that's all it would take because the checks wouldn't say a damn thing.



Yeah , SCOTUS would fall for that one....
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:46:21 AM EDT
They will continue to nibble away at it... One big offensive? no, I agree. But a little bit of "common sense" every year.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:50:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

Originally Posted By ireload:

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?



Check back during Clinton's presidency. Lawsuits against gun industry, magazine capacity restriction, assualt weapons ban, and so on. If we do not learn and forget our history shit is going to come back and bite us again.


You are correct on that. They can skirt the 2nd Amendment by bankrupting the gun industry through legislation allowing anyone to sue a manufacturer if their firearm was used to commit a crime. Defending a waive of lawsuits could put any firearm manufacturer out of business and then the Democrats have done indirectly what they could not do directly.




California is good example. It's what I call the "chip effect." Slowly but surely chipping away on our rights. Gun owner here are always in a constant fight to vote down, call our beloved liberal representatives to voice our opinion, and so on about gun control. We win some and we loose some.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:02:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:20:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 6:31:57 AM EDT by wgjhsafT]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?




The President of the United States has wide latitude in controlling executive agencies....one of which happens to be the BATFE. The BATFE has within it a number of anti-gun zealots who seek any and every opportunity to use their regulatory power to damage the 2nd amendment rights of citizens.

If you don't see how a president Obama could play with that even if by some miracle an anti-gun congress couldn't manage to pass anti-gun legislation (which is about as likely as Heidi Klum showing up at my front door tonight in a teddy begging to become my love slave) then there's not much help for you.

The power of the executive is MASSIVE. Judicial appointments, appointment power, executive orders.....legislation is only how about 1/3 of the work in Washington gets done.


I would also add that the so called 89' import ban was not some executive order but a change in policy by the ATF. This was influenced by Bush Sr's drug czar and the media based on the Stockton, CA shooting.

Bush Sr could have said no, stop, wait but instead did nothing. A quick policy decision by outside pressure was all it took to ban the importation of AKs, FALs, HKs, etc. Sure we can get them now with the appropriate number of US parts, etc. but all it took was pressure and it changed.

Obama can simply say "ATF, I want pressure on FFLs because of _________." Next thing you know your favorite gun store is losing its FFL because they forgot to spell out the word "yes." In addition before we start winning cases in our favor based off of Heller congress can use Heller to pass legislation to implement all kinds of crazy schemes. Obama can sign them into law or he can veto it. Do you think Obama is going to veto gun control? Do not want Obama.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:49:55 AM EDT
Any gun legislation will be on the back burner unless there's another large school shooting.

Obama's main concerns will be Iraq and the economy.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:51:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 5:06:13 AM EDT by Bob1984]
Obama can do a lot directly with executive orders. The import of Chinese weapons and ammunition was banned by executive order under Clinton. Obama can also aid and abet those in Congress who wish to impose anti-gun legislation.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:00:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:

Originally Posted By DallasLooterShooter:

Originally Posted By _DR:

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there are enough of them in the congress.


That is some seriously scary shit right there.



NOt really so good on the whole amending the constitution thing , are ya?

How do you purpose they will get 2/3's of the states to ratify that, when 48 states have CCW and 90% people support the meaning of the second amendment supports an individual right to bear arms?


Ratification takes 3/4 of the States.


Unless we're talking about the 16th Amendment...

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:02:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
It would require a majority in the house and senate, but that occurs with Barry Hussein in the oval office, we could see draconian changes on the scale of what happened in Australia.

It's not inconceivable that they could go so far as to repeal the second amendment if there enough enough of them in the congress.


Yes it is, considering that this would require amending the Constitution and the procedures required to do so (namely ratification by 3/4 of the States) would be impossible to meet.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:03:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 5:09:02 AM EDT by jrkarp]

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

An Executive order declaring martial law only takes the stroke of a pen.

If Congress,the courts, and the white house are ruled by the democrates that's all it would take because the checks wouldn't say a damn thing.


The President doesn't have the authority to declare martial law.


Yeah keep beliving that. Just like the Mayor of DC doesn't have the authority to ban handguns.

If the courts and congress are all carrying the party line no one's going to say "President Obama, you can't delcare martial law" and there are enough Jack Boot Thug wannabes out there(even on ARFCOM) that would gladly follow such an order.


The mayor wasn't the one that instituted the ban. It was the DC Council, back in 1976.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:04:45 AM EDT
I seriously doubt he ever will suceed.
Too many Americans, even nones who don't own firearms(not counting the libs) think we should have the right to own and bear arms.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:05:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 5:12:00 AM EDT by RunsWithScissors]
He has a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa", don't forget. That means the UN's
Small arms treaty is viable in his eyes. I bet he meets with Rebecca Peters within the first year of his term

More "common sense" gun laws along the lines of the "reasonable restrictions" we let them excercise already, like:

- Hi-cap Mag bans, again
- Import bans, again
- bans by make and model, again
- Ammo restrictions: how much, from whom, what kind, and with what added tax...
- You got 1-gun-a-month in your area? Could be "1-gun-a-year" or "1-gun-per-household"

Never forget this - if they can make the sport prohibitively expensive, they will.
If they can make a felon out of you, with what you currently own, they will.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:06:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:
Do you think that Obama wants to get rid of guns so badly that he is willing to risk a complete loss of power by the Dems?

Look at what happened to Congress after the '94 ban and how long it took them to regain power. Hell, check out Bill Clinton's book. He freely admits that the AWB caused a Congreaaional power shift.

Sticking to the party line is one thing but history has proven this to be dangerous for Democrats. Obama is not Feinstein or McCarthy. Banning guns is low on his list.


So we're supposed to hope he'll be smart enough to think that far ahead? Even if Obama was as smart as you think he is, why put the ball in his court?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:09:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:11:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Written test's
Huge fee's for every transaction
Firearm owners ID's that can be revoked by police
He can ban imports with the stroke of a pen.
Put BATF on a witch hunt against every FFL.
Basically make life hell for gun owners.


+87

"Stroke of the pen , law of the land , kinda cool !"
-Paul Begala , adviser to Pres. Clinton, on executive orders.

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:13:01 AM EDT
It's easy. he'll sign whatever gun control the democratic congress comes up with, under the leadership of Pelosi, Schumer, Kennedy, Feinstein, McCarthy, et al.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:14:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By technocia:
The Democrats control Congress now, and since they make the laws, how would a president somehow manage to affect gun ownership rights?




The President of the United States has wide latitude in controlling executive agencies....one of which happens to be the BATFE. The BATFE has within it a number of anti-gun zealots who seek any and every opportunity to use their regulatory power to damage the 2nd amendment rights of citizens.

If you don't see how a president Obama could play with that even if by some miracle an anti-gun congress couldn't manage to pass anti-gun legislation (which is about as likely as Heidi Klum showing up at my front door tonight in a teddy begging to become my love slave) then there's not much help for you.

The power of the executive is MASSIVE. Judicial appointments, appointment power, executive orders.....legislation is only how about 1/3 of the work in Washington gets done.


Keep in mind that there are lots of things that go on which are indeed unconstitutional but are OK because the Demos did it (or it is socialist in principle). The states do things (NY ignoring the FOPA in a number of cases) which should be called on because they fly nin the face of Federal law. The Demo controlled (in the OP premise) Dept of (in)Justice will simply ignore them.

As another poster pointed out, draconian regulations. The problem with Heller is that it is not as clear cut as we would like or as some believe - probably as a "relief" reaction. It does indeed allow for regulations which can be misused. The only way these can be corrected is another lawsuit through the system all the way to the SCOTUS again. In that period, they can indeed grind up a lot of guns and say "sorry" afterwards. ("What'cha gonna do about it; you want trouble?") Meanwhile, Obamahole appoints more Justices to the SCOTUS and, more importantly, to the next lower level of the Federal court system. Where does one expect rights to go then? One may have them on paper but how many can pursue them? As I've said many times, you get as much justice as you can afford to buy (not even talking about corruption, just legitimate legal fees).
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:15:38 AM EDT
Tax the bejusus of guns, ammo, accessories and increase environmental fees and taxes on shooting ranges. Additionally, they can increase the prices of FFL's exponentially essentially putting them out of business.

As far as the guns already in private hands, Obama can have his minions track down all firearms through the firearms registry (yeah, it doesn't exist ) and implement a value tax similar to that of CA and MA. You pay a tax each year based on the assessed value of the firearm.


Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:16:17 AM EDT
Where'd the OP go? Was he a troll or something?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:20:21 AM EDT
Still here, reading your answers, though from what I'm reading, I'm getting the impression that the president is simply just one small cog in a machine that's already in place and determined to hurt gun ownership, regardless of who's president.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:24:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:24:47 AM EDT
well they could go by the way of england and make registration then taxation to the point where only the wealthest or collectors own and firearms. as far a confinsation goes they will go to neghborhoods block street by street and send 6 man paramilitary teams (mostly likely cops) to get the guns. this why no must register their guns. history has shown this. and if this acutally comes to this well, people will just have to revisit the the declaration of independence it really no big deal.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:33:24 AM EDT
The guy once held one of the highest positions with the Joyce foundation. Look what one of there top priority's are.
http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 6:23:13 AM EDT
Also, remember last summer when OSHA tried to change the way ammo is handled. While OSHA is a part of the Executive Branch, some of the Senators that oversee it include Clinton, Kennedy, and Obama. If I remember correctly, Bush was not exactly happy with the director of OSHA over this flap. How would things be different if someome more anti-gun (or less pro-gun) was in power is anyone's guess.

Honestly, I don't believe it when a Democrat says, "Gun control is dead." If so, why is Obama saying that he would support a new AWB if elected? They will trying some measure to chip away at our rights in the name of "public good", "crime control", etc. until they find one that will work.

James
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 6:38:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jbilbrey:
Also, remember last summer when OSHA tried to change the way ammo is handled. While OSHA is a part of the Executive Branch, some of the Senators that oversee it include Clinton, Kennedy, and Obama. If I remember correctly, Bush was not exactly happy with the director of OSHA over this flap. How would things be different if someome more anti-gun (or less pro-gun) was in power is anyone's guess.

Honestly, I don't believe it when a Democrat says, "Gun control is dead." If so, why is Obama saying that he would support a new AWB if elected? They will trying some measure to chip away at our rights in the name of "public good", "crime control", etc. until they find one that will work.

James


With regards to OSHA their rule making and implementation is super slow so we are lucky it was them and not another department that attempted the rules and regs. on ammunition and explosives. Being that I deal with them a lot I felt the need to tear apart their proposal and send them several emails detailing large open holes in the program that would have made it a waste to implement and try to enforce it.

That being said and as many of us know congress is only part of the worries. There are many federal agencies out there under the executive umbrella that can affect the small arms industry in the US. Those on the left don't seem to mind causing havoc in it regardless of the consequences so don't expect any lefty appointees to these agencies to show logic or even pity to our interest or cause.

And as John_Wayne777 said think about many of the other important tasks the Executive rules over like intelligence and such. Obama has no clue when end of a gun a bullet comes out of. Do you think he and his leftist ilk are going to make proper decisions on intel or economic situations? I'm sure they'll make decisions but they will be ones that are socialist.
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