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Posted: 4/9/2010 12:11:18 PM EDT
1. Can the Osprey vertically land with only one engine? Or is this a situation for an airplane type of crash landing?
2. Can the osprey auto rotate once it loses engine power if already in vertical decent?

I am curious since the engines are on the opposite edges of the airframe and that looks like an awfully large amount of weight to conteract with pure thrust. It looks like it would flip over if one engine died when it was vertical.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:12:15 PM EDT
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:13:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2010 12:14:28 PM EDT by Chris_C]
Big drive shaft connects the two, in simple terms.

ETA Someone will be along in a min with stats and diagrams and tech info proving how smart they are.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:15:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2010 12:16:33 PM EDT by Green_Canoe]
Note the transmission interconnect shaft:




ETA:

Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Big drive shaft connects the two, in simple terms.

ETA Someone will be along in a min with stats and diagrams and tech info proving how smart they are.



I guess that's me.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:15:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:15:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2010 12:16:25 PM EDT by warp_foo]
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Big drive shaft connects the two, in simple terms.

ETA Someone will be along in a min with stats and diagrams and tech info proving how smart they are.


Sho 'nuff:

Transmission Interconnect Shaft

Cool Image link... damn, beat by seconds

m
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:16:02 PM EDT
Gravity wins?
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:16:16 PM EDT
In before Keith and AeroE.

I would just assume they do, what Ospreys do best- crash.

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:18:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


I'm pretty sure they forgot one engine operations in the test plan.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:19:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
In before Keith and AeroE.

I would just assume they do, what Ospreys do best- crash.




Note the "24 crashworthy seats" in the diagram. Almost as if they were planning ahead...
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:19:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
Note the transmission interconnect shaft:

http://madmikey.mu.nu/archives/Tiltrotor.jpg


ETA:

Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Big drive shaft connects the two, in simple terms.

ETA Someone will be along in a min with stats and diagrams and tech info proving how smart they are.



I guess that's me.


Is anyone else alarmed by the apparent age of that drawing? It looks Nam era.

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:19:55 PM EDT
Unless the fire that killed the one engine also burns through the cross-drive shaft...

And yes, this has happened in the test program.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:20:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.

Yep.

IIRC they can't do a full load takeoff on one engine, but can cruise and land with only one.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:20:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Big drive shaft connects the two, in simple terms. .


Interesting I honestly had no idea, figured it was a crash and burn deal.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:23:36 PM EDT
While one engine can keep the other prop spinning, if both engines go out it has no autorotational capability.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:25:04 PM EDT
The Osprey can fly on a single engine and in most cases land on a single engine. Most times you "cube" out on cargo way before you get anywhere near "weighing" out. The only time I could really see them maxing out weight wise is if they are doing externals and than they would just pickle it and should be able to land on one engine.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:26:33 PM EDT

Interconnected drive shafts for rotor craft work pretty well....
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:26:58 PM EDT


Is anyone else alarmed by the apparent age of that drawing? It looks Nam era.



Glad I'm not the only one thinking that.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:31:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By REALM:


Is anyone else alarmed by the apparent age of that drawing? It looks Nam era.



Glad I'm not the only one thinking that.


So, the age of an early concept drawing gives you reason for concern? You must wet your beds when you see a Da Vinci drawing of a flying machine.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:33:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


I'm pretty sure they forgot one engine operations in the test plan.




Back in the day flying out to rigs

'What happens if we lose an engine'

'Book says we carry out a safe landing on one engine'

'But we're at maximum weight'

'Yep'

'So what happens then'

'You can kiss your arse goodbye'
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:36:47 PM EDT
anyone have an h-v diagram on the v-22?
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:39:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
The Osprey can fly on a single engine and in most cases land on a single engine. Most times you "cube" out on cargo way before you get anywhere near "weighing" out. The only time I could really see them maxing out weight wise is if they are doing externals and than they would just pickle it and should be able to land on one engine.


It's a military aircraft. They NEVER load them up to max gross...

How about a MV with full gas and a bunch of SF equipment?

I had a FedEx guy on the jumpseat way back when. His brother was one of the test pilots on this 'aircraft'. I told him I didn't want to be under one when it lost an engine. He said his brother said this aircraft will kill more Marines than the CH-53.

Maybe its gotten better.

TC

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:41:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


I'm pretty sure they forgot one engine operations in the test plan.




Back in the day flying out to rigs

'What happens if we lose an engine'

'Book says we carry out a safe landing on one engine'

'But we're at maximum weight'

'Yep'

'So what happens then'

'You can kiss your arse goodbye'

you continue flying as translational lift will more than compensate. since helis burn fuel like a teamster swills beer, it won't take long to get below the weight for single engine landing. plus you can exceed turbine inlet temperature maximums for a spell.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:43:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 12:58:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


I'm pretty sure they forgot one engine operations in the test plan.




Back in the day flying out to rigs

'What happens if we lose an engine'

'Book says we carry out a safe landing on one engine'

'But we're at maximum weight'

'Yep'

'So what happens then'

'You can kiss your arse goodbye'

you continue flying as translational lift will more than compensate. since helis burn fuel like a teamster swills beer, it won't take long to get below the weight for single engine landing. plus you can exceed turbine inlet temperature maximums for a spell.





More than enough helos have nosed in to prove that the best case is not always gonna happen…
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 1:07:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


I'm pretty sure they forgot one engine operations in the test plan.




Back in the day flying out to rigs

'What happens if we lose an engine'

'Book says we carry out a safe landing on one engine'

'But we're at maximum weight'

'Yep'

'So what happens then'

'You can kiss your arse goodbye'

you continue flying as translational lift will more than compensate. since helis burn fuel like a teamster swills beer, it won't take long to get below the weight for single engine landing. plus you can exceed turbine inlet temperature maximums for a spell.


More than enough helos have nosed in to prove that the best case is not always gonna happen…

but did they auger in due to a lost engine?
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 1:11:25 PM EDT
Loose both engines with no auto rotation capability...forget it.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 1:17:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Originally Posted By REALM:


Is anyone else alarmed by the apparent age of that drawing? It looks Nam era.



Glad I'm not the only one thinking that.


So, the age of an early concept drawing gives you reason for concern? You must wet your beds when you see a Da Vinci drawing of a flying machine.


da Vinci's flying machine didn't go to regular production in 2005.

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 1:22:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


Yes but, it cannot HOVER with only 1 engine. Airplane mode only.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 2:55:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JoePatriot:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


Yes but, it cannot HOVER with only 1 engine. Airplane mode only.


Well that's a big WTF when it comes time to set it down, just sayin'.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:01:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


That stuff works until it's hit by AAA fire or breaks from metal fatigue. I don't want to ride in any aircraft that might be subject to such massive asymmetrical thrust problems if things go wrong.

I've been thoroughly trashed in forums every time I bring up my distrust of the Osprey design. There's a whole lot of Osprey cheerleaders out there.

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:02:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 68-19583:
Originally Posted By JoePatriot:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


Yes but, it cannot HOVER with only 1 engine. Airplane mode only.


Well that's a big WTF when it comes time to set it down, just sayin'.


Yep.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:05:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 68-19583:
Originally Posted By JoePatriot:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


Yes but, it cannot HOVER with only 1 engine. Airplane mode only.


Well that's a big WTF when it comes time to set it down, just sayin'.

There are intermediate angles the engines can turn to so the rotors dont hit the ground.


Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:08:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:

Originally Posted By 68-19583:
Originally Posted By JoePatriot:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


Yes but, it cannot HOVER with only 1 engine. Airplane mode only.


Well that's a big WTF when it comes time to set it down, just sayin'.

There are intermediate angles the engines can turn to so the rotors dont hit the ground.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3222/bellboeingv22osprey.jpg


Right. Well, I'm guessing they are pushing a fine line with the tilt and how much power to weight ratio they have. Tilt them too far up on one engine and you will burn off your rotor speed without proper TQ/power and burn into the ground like a meteor.

Big time FAIL
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:08:38 PM EDT
Does it use a Sprag clutch like the Phrog? I know that is what allows the 46 to auto rotate. Been 11 years since I flew on the Phrog but still remember natops and the limits for her.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:11:15 PM EDT
The other engine carries the aircraft all the way to the scene of the crash.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:12:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jab:
Does it use a Sprag clutch like the Phrog? I know that is what allows the 46 to auto rotate. Been 11 years since I flew on the Phrog but still remember natops and the limits for her.


No auto rotation.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:17:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Originally Posted By REALM:


Is anyone else alarmed by the apparent age of that drawing? It looks Nam era.



Glad I'm not the only one thinking that.


So, the age of an early concept drawing gives you reason for concern? You must wet your beds when you see a Da Vinci drawing of a flying machine.


Well, you have to keep in mind that the majority of the aircraft designs that the .mil use were on the drawing boards in the 60's-80's...
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:21:27 PM EDT
It crashes and everyone dies.

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:24:51 PM EDT
the F22 started the design phase in the late 80's didn't it?
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:26:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Klatuu:
It crashes and everyone dies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeLishJ_Js


Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:28:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 3:41:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2010 3:42:26 PM EDT by 68-19583]
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By 68-19583:
Originally Posted By jab:
Does it use a Sprag clutch like the Phrog? I know that is what allows the 46 to auto rotate. Been 11 years since I flew on the Phrog but still remember natops and the limits for her.


No auto rotation.


I've been told that the Osprey has "some" autorotation.

Don't know if it was true (or perhaps my leg was being pulled), but it was a pretty credible source.


I wish some one knowledgeable would chime in on that subject. Dual engine failure with no auto rotation and poor glide path= death machine. (I'm speaking as a UH-1H crewcheif from the "70s)
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:01:03 PM EDT
Big problem with that design.

That, and the transition.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:15:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By 68-19583:
Originally Posted By jab:
Does it use a Sprag clutch like the Phrog? I know that is what allows the 46 to auto rotate. Been 11 years since I flew on the Phrog but still remember natops and the limits for her.


No auto rotation.


I've been told that the Osprey has "some" autorotation.

Don't know if it was true (or perhaps my leg was being pulled), but it was a pretty credible source.

If it has already transitioned to verticle.
If its in "cruise mode" not so much.
But I really don't know.

This guy didn't think much of the design.
http://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/Leishman_0207_RDS.pdf

Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:18:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CFII:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
anyone have an h-v diagram on the v-22?


I bet its one scary looking graph...


I've seen one and it's not pretty.
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:24:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
If an osprey loses an engine the other engine spins both propellers.


So they claim…


I'm pretty sure they forgot one engine operations in the test plan.


I was curious as the one that went down in afghanistan could have been ground fire
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:31:03 PM EDT
"No thanks..." says the guy who makes a living flying in the "Crashhawk."
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:32:55 PM EDT
What always got me is this isn't a "pure" design. It's not an airplane and it's not a helicopter. But it does both...


By which standards do you judge it?
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:40:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
"No thanks..." says the guy who makes a living flying in the "Crashhawk."


lol.....
Link Posted: 4/9/2010 4:42:39 PM EDT
Too many moving parts.
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