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Posted: 9/27/2011 9:46:48 AM EST
As I posted in my other thread, I've lost a good bit of weight and made some progress in my fitness that I'm proud of over the last few months, but I've got one lurking problem. I have a hard time keeping my diet truly clean. I've been on the paleo diet (to the fullest extent the DFAC will allow me) and its done great things for my health, but I still have a fat kid mentality when it comes to sweets and treats. I always catch myself sneaking a piece of cake, or some candy, or a scoop of ice cream every now and then and I hate myself for it. Now, I don't mean that I beat myself up over it but it is something I'd much rather like to avoid.

I know, I know, I'm the only one capable of making decisions for myself. But it always starts with something like 'just a bite', and I end up eating a lot more than I'd like to without even realizing it and I just regret it later on. So what do you guys do to resist urges and cravings? I tried substituting fruit when my sweet tooth kicked in, but fruit only goes so far. I also think I'm not used to not feeling really, really full yet. When I weighed much more, I would eat until I felt full, like my stomach was stretch. I know now what being full really feels like, but its almost like I miss that old full feeling. I don't know why, I just can't seem to escape this mindset.


Link Posted: 9/27/2011 9:52:13 AM EST
Hey man, I have a terrible sweet tooth too. I can eat chocolate and ice cream like a chick with PMS that just got dumped on her birthday.
Here's what I do:
Saturday I eat those things I don't allow myself to eat the rest of the week. The rest of the week I have nothing but maybe a square of 85% dark chocolate if I'm REALLY hurting. So when my cravings start I can just say to myself "wait a few more days, then you can be a pig". Then Saturday rolls around and I get some ice cream and chocolate. Then I'm happy...

It's harder when you're deployed because most of your buddies are not going to be supportive, and there's TCN's whose sole purpose in life is to scoop ice cream for you lol.
Try the cheat day thing though, it works for me.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 10:00:53 AM EST
I let myself have one cheat day. Any more than that and the "just one won't hurt" adds up to too much. Also, knowing that I can have "it" later helps me resist it now.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 10:06:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 10:20:45 AM EST by kteaton]

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Hey man, I have a terrible sweet tooth too. I can eat chocolate and ice cream like a chick with PMS that just got dumped on her birthday.
Here's what I do:
Saturday I eat those things I don't allow myself to eat the rest of the week. The rest of the week I have nothing but maybe a square of 85% dark chocolate if I'm REALLY hurting. So when my cravings start I can just say to myself "wait a few more days, then you can be a pig". Then Saturday rolls around and I get some ice cream and chocolate. Then I'm happy...

It's harder when you're deployed because most of your buddies are not going to be supportive, and there's TCN's whose sole purpose in life is to scoop ice cream for you lol.
Try the cheat day thing though, it works for me.


Haha funny story, my best friend passed through here for a night a while ago and we went to the chow hall because he wanted pie and ice cream. So he goes and gets a slice of apple pie and walks up to the ice cream counter and tells the guy he wants vanilla so he gives my friend this retardedly huge scoop and my buddy goes "whoa whoa thats good boss, thanks" and the guys just goes "more, yes?". "No I don't need more." "Okay I give you more." Boom, another monster scoop. "Is good?" "Christ man yeah thats good." "More?" "No no more." Third retarded scoop (the tiny paper plate holding the pie is ready to buckle under itself. "Is good?" "YES THATS GOOD NO MORE." "One more." By the end of the ordeal my friend had damn near the entire tub of ice cream piled onto this 4" diameter paper plate. I was in tears. The TCN thought it was the funniest thing in the world.

So yeah, the TCN's love to make you fat most definitely. It's funny though, because conversely, whenever I want a shitlaod of veggies they seem to make an effort to scoop as little as possible with that monster spoon.

But I like your idea. I'll give it a shot but the shit I like is so calorie dense and full of sugar and crap. Like Hot Tamales candies. Who the hell is only going to eat 20 of those? The whole damn box is like 1500 calories and I don't even want to know how much sugar...
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 10:26:31 AM EST
LOL...yeah the TCNs got to know me as the guy who had to have 5 REAL eggs in his omelete in the mornings and the guy who wanted 2/3 of his plate covered in veggies haha. "no keep going" (with little hand scooping motion) "MORE veggies sir??!?" "YEAH fill that bad boy up, lets go!!!"

Even if you have your hot tamales ONLY once a week, I think you'll be ok. In fact what may happen is you'll get so used to no sugar you'll overeat them once a week, feel like complete shit and not want them again for a while.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 12:15:00 PM EST
My gf cooks for me. Otherwise it's nothing but Subway for me.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 12:25:27 PM EST
I lost my sweet tooth when I figured out it was making me crashy afterward. Before that I was sweets and starch all day long.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 12:42:48 PM EST
I indulge in treats a couple times a week. Everything in moderation.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 1:03:04 PM EST
If you lose the sweets for a while, like several weeks, you will lose a lot of the cravings for them. Anything that burns fast, like white flour or alcohol, will help bring the cravings back. I only eat sweets rarely, and often try to build them w/ no sugar. If you make your 'treats' healthy enough, it isn't a bad thing if you pig out on them...

I do know that if I have sugar on Friday, I will probably end up w/ something on Saturday, the leftovers on Sunday, and find something sweet on Monday... If I just don't eat any, it is MUCH easier, as I don't crave them for days afterward.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 1:05:33 PM EST
Eat like shit = feel like shit = train like shit.........look like shit!


Link Posted: 9/27/2011 1:16:05 PM EST
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 2:00:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 2:35:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 2:40:42 PM EST by Masterbeef]
One way is actually with my diet, not that im on a "diet", i just mean what i normally eat.
I weened myself off shitty standard american cuisine (everything seems to be made with butter, lard, fried, ect) a long time ago. I rarely eat out, and if i do its usually sushi..
Obviously one of the benefits of not eating garbage, is you begin to feel better. On the other end of that spectrum, when I do eat those foods deemed as garbage, i feel awful afterward and i dont mean guilt from eating too much cake.
When you get cleaned up to a certain degree your body has a way of telling you what you are doing is fucking it up.
My cheat day is the entire weekend. Pizza, burgers, fries, wings, beers, all the good stuff, but can only indulge so much before i begin to feel like shit.
A big ass burger and basket of fries (in-N-out is like cryptonite) or an order of wings and some beers puts me down for an hour or two. Its delicious but I find it amazing now how most other people out there live off this shit.
Although i do not have much of a sweet tooth, to me junk food is still junk food.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 2:36:13 PM EST
I am a chocaholic also, and I absolutely LOVE peanut bananna milkshakes from Cookout. I have a square of chocolate every other day and a shake every other Saturday. Cheat meals/snacks in moderation...
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 3:42:48 PM EST
I pretty much do all of the shopping and cooking in my household. So I just pass by all of the sweet stuff at the store. If it makes it to the house in any way, I will eat it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 4:23:15 PM EST
I find something healthy I like or close enough (gotta somewhat like your meals) and go nuts on it. Eating for every single meal for weeks straight 3xtimes a day.

Link Posted: 9/27/2011 4:44:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Hey man, I have a terrible sweet tooth too. I can eat chocolate and ice cream like a chick with PMS that just got dumped on her birthday.
Here's what I do:
Saturday I eat those things I don't allow myself to eat the rest of the week. The rest of the week I have nothing but maybe a square of 85% dark chocolate if I'm REALLY hurting. So when my cravings start I can just say to myself "wait a few more days, then you can be a pig". Then Saturday rolls around and I get some ice cream and chocolate. Then I'm happy...

It's harder when you're deployed because most of your buddies are not going to be supportive, and there's TCN's whose sole purpose in life is to scoop ice cream for you lol.
Try the cheat day thing though, it works for me.



Freaking sigline worthy. My cheat days are when I have my kids. I dont have to worry about the DFAC, thank goodness, but what I do is pack a bag of all my meals and snacks for the day. My job has me running from different hospitals at times, or where I get ten minutes to eat between surgeries, so I pack appropriately. Are there paleo snacks/foods you can have family send via care package?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:26:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance


Your body uses the same macro and micro nutrients no matter what the food source is. It doesn't know the difference between clean and unclean. If you have health problems or a sensitivity to something then that is something you should work your diet around but other than that food is food. Once you have your calories, protein, and dietary fat dialed in to healthy/ideal levels it is pretty difficult to go overboard with anything. Eat plenty of vegetables, some fruit, and pop a good multivitamin each day for piece of mind and you should be golden.

Some of the best athletes in the world survive on McDonalds and ice cream.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:32:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance


Your body uses the same macro and micro nutrients no matter what the food source is. It doesn't know the difference between clean and unclean. If you have health problems or a sensitivity to something then that is something you should work your diet around but other than that food is food. Once you have your calories, protein, and dietary fat dialed in to healthy/ideal levels it is pretty difficult to go overboard with anything. Eat plenty of vegetables, some fruit, and pop a good multivitamin each day for piece of mind and you should be golden.

Some of the best athletes in the world survive on McDonalds and ice cream.

And those athletes are outliers. The rest of what you typed is just nonsense. Not all food is created equal and if you want to be healthy you need good food, not trash and junk food. Yes, your body uses the same macro nutrients, but being healthy is a lot more than just a ratio between fat carbs and protein.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 7:19:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance


Your body uses the same macro and micro nutrients no matter what the food source is. It doesn't know the difference between clean and unclean. If you have health problems or a sensitivity to something then that is something you should work your diet around but other than that food is food. Once you have your calories, protein, and dietary fat dialed in to healthy/ideal levels it is pretty difficult to go overboard with anything. Eat plenty of vegetables, some fruit, and pop a good multivitamin each day for piece of mind and you should be golden.

Some of the best athletes in the world survive on McDonalds and ice cream.



And yet another reason to stay away from bodybuilding.com
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 8:44:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 8:45:29 AM EST by AndrewS]
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance


Your body uses the same macro and micro nutrients no matter what the food source is. It doesn't know the difference between clean and unclean. If you have health problems or a sensitivity to something then that is something you should work your diet around but other than that food is food. Once you have your calories, protein, and dietary fat dialed in to healthy/ideal levels it is pretty difficult to go overboard with anything. Eat plenty of vegetables, some fruit, and pop a good multivitamin each day for piece of mind and you should be golden.

Some of the best athletes in the world survive on McDonalds and ice cream.

And those athletes are outliers. The rest of what you typed is just nonsense. Not all food is created equal and if you want to be healthy you need good food, not trash and junk food. Yes, your body uses the same macro nutrients, but being healthy is a lot more than just a ratio between fat carbs and protein.


What differentiates it then? Where is the difference and what is corresponding change in biology?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 8:51:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance


Your body uses the same macro and micro nutrients no matter what the food source is. It doesn't know the difference between clean and unclean. If you have health problems or a sensitivity to something then that is something you should work your diet around but other than that food is food. Once you have your calories, protein, and dietary fat dialed in to healthy/ideal levels it is pretty difficult to go overboard with anything. Eat plenty of vegetables, some fruit, and pop a good multivitamin each day for piece of mind and you should be golden.

Some of the best athletes in the world survive on McDonalds and ice cream.

And those athletes are outliers. The rest of what you typed is just nonsense. Not all food is created equal and if you want to be healthy you need good food, not trash and junk food. Yes, your body uses the same macro nutrients, but being healthy is a lot more than just a ratio between fat carbs and protein.


What differentiates it then? Where is the difference and what is corresponding change in biology?

First I want to be sure I understand your argument:
Let's say that 2 people (let's say identical twins to cut out genetic factors) are shooting for a 40-40-20 protein/fat/carb macronutrient ratio.

Twin A gets his nutrients from: eggs, grass fed meat, fish, all types of vegetables, fruits and nuts.

Twin B gets his nutrients from: Mcdonalds cheeseburgers, pizza, snickers, and perhaps a few veggies just for fun.

You're really trying to say that both these people would be equally healthy?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:30:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
It is easy when you don't try to make the distinction of clean or unclean. Just easy whatever you want so long as your overall caloric and macro nutrient goals are met for the day.

Of course this doesn't work too well if you're trying to stay healthy and be at peak physical performance


Your body uses the same macro and micro nutrients no matter what the food source is. It doesn't know the difference between clean and unclean. If you have health problems or a sensitivity to something then that is something you should work your diet around but other than that food is food. Once you have your calories, protein, and dietary fat dialed in to healthy/ideal levels it is pretty difficult to go overboard with anything. Eat plenty of vegetables, some fruit, and pop a good multivitamin each day for piece of mind and you should be golden.

Some of the best athletes in the world survive on McDonalds and ice cream.

And those athletes are outliers. The rest of what you typed is just nonsense. Not all food is created equal and if you want to be healthy you need good food, not trash and junk food. Yes, your body uses the same macro nutrients, but being healthy is a lot more than just a ratio between fat carbs and protein.


What differentiates it then? Where is the difference and what is corresponding change in biology?

First I want to be sure I understand your argument:
Let's say that 2 people (let's say identical twins to cut out genetic factors) are shooting for a 40-40-20 protein/fat/carb macronutrient ratio.

Twin A gets his nutrients from: eggs, grass fed meat, fish, all types of vegetables, fruits and nuts.

Twin B gets his nutrients from: Mcdonalds cheeseburgers, pizza, snickers, and perhaps a few veggies just for fun.

You're really trying to say that both these people would be equally healthy?


I am saying what matters is that you meet the body's essential requirements. Supply it with the amino acids, essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, and energy that it cannot produce on its own without introducing an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems and it will be healthy. The source of those essentials is irrelevant as the body cannot differentiate between the concept of clean and unclean foods. Just about everything we eat is simultaneously good and bad for the body. Moderation is the key.

If Twin B can meet his nutritional requirements on a diet that includes foods commonly called junk food then yes he can remain equally healthy. The trick is finding the moderation in which that is possible. Processed foods and fast food are usually pretty low on the scale of nutritional density while quite high in calories. They also tend to be packed with sodium for preservation purposes which can make it easy to overdo yoru sodium intake. Take that into account with the rest of your diet and you can be no worse for wear by including them.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:39:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:42:11 AM EST by RolandofGilead]
I'm pretty sure I do understand your argument correctly- if not, I apologize in advance. Here's some reading material that may help you understand why you're not getting everything you need from garbage food (O3 fatty acids for one) and getting a bunch of crap you don't need, and will make you unhealthy.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060619133024.htm Trans Fat Leads To Weight Gain Even On Same Total Calories, Animal Study Shows

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17224066 Stearic acid-rich interesterified fat and trans-rich fat raise the LDL/HDL ratio and plasma glucose relative to palm olein in humans.

http://news.illinois.edu/news/09/0616transfat.html Trans fat hinders multiple steps in blood flow regulation pathways

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/3/562.full Consumption of Trans Fatty Acids Is Related to Plasma Biomarkers of Inflammation and Endothelial Dysfunction

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=15129302&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google Roles of unsaturated fatty acids (especially omega-3 fatty acids) in the brain at various ages and during ageing.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/26/11/1180.abstract Role of sugars in human neutrophilic phagocytosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18395287 Fructose consumption as a risk factor for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

http://www.jacn.org/content/19/1/31.full.pdf The Interaction Between Dietary Fructose and Magnesium Adversely Affects Macromineral Homeostasis in Men

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601831.html Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15750663 Dietary omega-3 Fatty acids and psychiatry: mood, behaviour, stress, depression, dementia and aging.
This last one is interesting. This is why I recommend grass fed beef, fish oil or herring (thanks for that H46)

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:41:54 AM EST
Basically this all or nothing approach to "clean eating" is BS. There is absolutely nothing wrong with eating hamburgers, pizzas, ice cream, chocolate cake, or candy.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:42:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:51:40 AM EST by RolandofGilead]

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Basically this all or nothing approach to "clean eating" is BS. There is absolutely nothing wrong with eating hamburgers, pizzas, ice cream, chocolate cake, or candy.


So you're not going to read through all the studies that show otherwise?

Basically the fat I get from fish and grass fed beef > than the fat you get from pizza. The carbs I get from veggies > the carbs you get from candy.

ETA- I'm not saying all or nothing, but everything you just listed there should be thought of as "cheats" or whatever you want to call them. They should not be used as every day sustenance.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:45:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By AndrewS:

I am saying what matters is that you meet the body's essential requirements. Supply it with the amino acids, essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, and energy that it cannot produce on its own without introducing an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems and it will be healthy. The source of those essentials is irrelevant as the body cannot differentiate between the concept of clean and unclean foods. Just about everything we eat is simultaneously good and bad for the body. Moderation is the key.

If Twin B can meet his nutritional requirements on a diet that includes foods commonly called junk food then yes he can remain equally healthy. The trick is finding the moderation in which that is possible. Processed foods and fast food are usually pretty low on the scale of nutritional density while quite high in calories. They also tend to be packed with sodium for preservation purposes which can make it easy to overdo yoru sodium intake. Take that into account with the rest of your diet and you can be no worse for wear by including them.




You're contradicting yourself within your own statement.

According to your premise a person could live entirely off Doritos as long as they met their required caloric, fat and protein intake....as long as they didn't have "an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems".

The problem of course is that it's impossible to eat enough Doritos to supply your body with enough calories, fat and protein without also ingesting far too much sodium, carbs and trans fats.


Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:51:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
I'm pretty sure I do understand your argument correctly- if not, I apologize in advance. Here's some reading material that may help you understand why you're not getting everything you need from garbage food (O3 fatty acids for one) and getting a bunch of crap you don't need, and will make you unhealthy.




http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060619133024.htm Trans Fat Leads To Weight Gain Even On Same Total Calories, Animal Study Shows

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17224066 Stearic acid-rich interesterified fat and trans-rich fat raise the LDL/HDL ratio and plasma glucose relative to palm olein in humans.

http://news.illinois.edu/news/09/0616transfat.html Trans fat hinders multiple steps in blood flow regulation pathways

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/3/562.full Consumption of Trans Fatty Acids Is Related to Plasma Biomarkers of Inflammation and Endothelial Dysfunction

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=15129302&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google Roles of unsaturated fatty acids (especially omega-3 fatty acids) in the brain at various ages and during ageing.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/26/11/1180.abstract Role of sugars in human neutrophilic phagocytosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18395287 Fructose consumption as a risk factor for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

http://www.jacn.org/content/19/1/31.full.pdf The Interaction Between Dietary Fructose and Magnesium Adversely Affects Macromineral Homeostasis in Men

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601831.html Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15750663 Dietary omega-3 Fatty acids and psychiatry: mood, behaviour, stress, depression, dementia and aging.
This last one is interesting. This is why I recommend grass fed beef, fish oil or herring (thanks for that H46)



Like I said, everything is simultaneously good and bad for you. An abundance of trans fats, saturated fats, fructose, and mercury are all just as bad for you as an abundance of eggs, lean meat, fruit, nuts, and even water.

Omega 3 is one of the types of essential fatty acids I mentioned before. There are also some Omega 6 and saturated fatty acids that are essential as well but you don’t see much about them because they are abundant in the foods we eat so it is relatively easy for use to meet those requirements.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:54:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewS:

Like I said, everything is simultaneously good and bad for you. An abundance of trans fats, saturated fats, fructose, and mercury are all just as bad for you as an abundance of eggs, lean meat, fruit, nuts, and even water.

Omega 3 is one of the types of essential fatty acids I mentioned before. There are also some Omega 6 and saturated fatty acids that are essential as well but you don’t see much about them because they are abundant in the foods we eat so it is relatively easy for use to meet those requirements.

Wait- so an abundance of transfat is as bad for you as an abundance of eggs and grass fed meat? Seriously? I'm beginning to think you're just playing a game with me now

Take the time to read the studies I posted because you are just flat out wrong.

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:56:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:

You're contradicting yourself within your own statement.

According to your premise a person could live entirely off Doritos as long as they met their required caloric, fat and protein intake....as long as they didn't have "an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems".

The problem of course is that it's impossible to eat enough Doritos to supply your body with enough calories, fat and protein without also ingesting far too much sodium, carbs and trans fats.




That isn't what I said at all. Doritos do not provide all of the essential nutrients your body needs. They aren't particularly balanced in the nutrition they do provide either.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:58:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:

You're contradicting yourself within your own statement.

According to your premise a person could live entirely off Doritos as long as they met their required caloric, fat and protein intake....as long as they didn't have "an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems".

The problem of course is that it's impossible to eat enough Doritos to supply your body with enough calories, fat and protein without also ingesting far too much sodium, carbs and trans fats.




That isn't what I said at all. Doritos do not provide all of the essential nutrients your body needs. They aren't particularly balanced in the nutrition they do provide either.



Wow, ok then.....Doritos and BigMacs.....Doritos and donuts.....either way, your argument and your science is seriously flawed.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:00:04 AM EST
In case you missed it earlier:

Basically the fat I get from fish and grass fed beef > than the fat you get from pizza. The carbs I get from veggies > the carbs you get from candy.


And I posted studies backing this up.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:02:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:

Like I said, everything is simultaneously good and bad for you. An abundance of trans fats, saturated fats, fructose, and mercury are all just as bad for you as an abundance of eggs, lean meat, fruit, nuts, and even water.

Omega 3 is one of the types of essential fatty acids I mentioned before. There are also some Omega 6 and saturated fatty acids that are essential as well but you don’t see much about them because they are abundant in the foods we eat so it is relatively easy for use to meet those requirements.

Wait- so an abundance of transfat is as bad for you as an abundance of eggs and grass fed meat? Seriously? I'm beginning to think you're just playing a game with me now

Take the time to read the studies I posted because you are just flat out wrong.



They can be. Eggs and meat are high in saturated fat and cholesterol which if consumed out of proportion can cause negative health effects. Same as fructose and trans fats.

I don't have time right now but I have more than likely read or reviewed a majority of them already.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:04:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
In case you missed it earlier:

Basically the fat I get from fish and grass fed beef > than the fat you get from pizza. The carbs I get from veggies > the carbs you get from candy.


And I posted studies backing this up.


I specifically addressed different foods having different nutritional values and varying densities of nutrition.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:05:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:

You're contradicting yourself within your own statement.

According to your premise a person could live entirely off Doritos as long as they met their required caloric, fat and protein intake....as long as they didn't have "an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems".

The problem of course is that it's impossible to eat enough Doritos to supply your body with enough calories, fat and protein without also ingesting far too much sodium, carbs and trans fats.




That isn't what I said at all. Doritos do not provide all of the essential nutrients your body needs. They aren't particularly balanced in the nutrition they do provide either.



Wow, ok then.....Doritos and BigMacs.....Doritos and donuts.....either way, your argument and your science is seriously flawed.

I know he's trying to say "everything in moderation" which is true. The little fact that's slipping through the cracks though is that things like transfat are bad for you in ANY amount while eggs, meat, and vegetable are GREAT for you in normal amounts.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:06:20 AM EST
Tell ya what, lets conduct our own experiment.

I usually ingest about 600 calories before I lift.

I'll get my calories from whole milk, whey protein and almond butter.

You get your 600 calories from nothing but beer.

We'll both do a heavy leg day, lots of squats.

Think we'll both have the same level of performance and recovery?

Calories are calories right?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:08:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By AndrewS:

Like I said, everything is simultaneously good and bad for you. An abundance of trans fats, saturated fats, fructose, and mercury are all just as bad for you as an abundance of eggs, lean meat, fruit, nuts, and even water.

Omega 3 is one of the types of essential fatty acids I mentioned before. There are also some Omega 6 and saturated fatty acids that are essential as well but you don’t see much about them because they are abundant in the foods we eat so it is relatively easy for use to meet those requirements.

Wait- so an abundance of transfat is as bad for you as an abundance of eggs and grass fed meat? Seriously? I'm beginning to think you're just playing a game with me now

Take the time to read the studies I posted because you are just flat out wrong.



They can be. Eggs and meat are high in saturated fat and cholesterol which if consumed out of proportion can cause negative health effects. Same as fructose and trans fats.

I don't have time right now but I have more than likely read or reviewed a majority of them already.

Wrong. Eating fat does not raise cholesterol, there's studies backing that up too. Can you eat too much of it? Yes of course, but in normal amounts they are excellent for you.

Fast food cheeseburgers, refined sugar, transfat, HFCS and mercury (seriously?) are not good for you in ANY amount.

I seriously doubt you have read through those studies because if you had you'd understand the huge flaw in your argument.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:09:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Tell ya what, lets conduct our own experiment.

I usually ingest about 600 calories before I lift.

I'll get my calories from whole milk, whey protein and almond butter.

You get your 600 calories from nothing but beer.

We'll both do a heavy leg day, lots of squats.

Think we'll both have the same level of performance and recovery?

Calories are calories right?

Great idea- but beer won't work because it's all carbs while you're getting carbs, fat and protein...

How about a quarter pounder instead?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:14:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Great idea- but beer won't work because it's all carbs while you're getting carbs, fat and protein...

How about a quarter pounder instead?



That was the point, he's saying people can eat anything they want as long as they keep their totals in balance.

That's impossible to do.

You can't get enough protein, vitamins, fiber, etc... from junk food without getting all the "junk" that goes with it.

By the time you've hit your protein total for the day you've easily surpassed your carb and fat total.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:19:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:

You're contradicting yourself within your own statement.

According to your premise a person could live entirely off Doritos as long as they met their required caloric, fat and protein intake....as long as they didn't have "an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems".

The problem of course is that it's impossible to eat enough Doritos to supply your body with enough calories, fat and protein without also ingesting far too much sodium, carbs and trans fats.




That isn't what I said at all. Doritos do not provide all of the essential nutrients your body needs. They aren't particularly balanced in the nutrition they do provide either.



Wow, ok then.....Doritos and BigMacs.....Doritos and donuts.....either way, your argument and your science is seriously flawed.

I know he's trying to say "everything in moderation" which is true. The little fact that's slipping through the cracks though is that things like transfat are bad for you in ANY amount while eggs, meat, and vegetable are GREAT for you in normal amounts.


Nothing is bad for you in totality. We regularly ingest trace amounts of mercury and arsenic and they don't have a negative impact so long as they are moderated. Our bodies are very resilient. Again, this all or nothing approach(which you deny taking and yet argue for) is BS.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:33:21 AM EST
For me the way I stopped liking sweets was having Giardia for the better part of 2 years. What a nightmare, but as far as I know it feeds off sugar. So during those 2 years as long as I didn't have sugar I wouldn't vomit and shit water for days on end. Maybe not the solution you want, but trust me it's the best conditioning method I have ever experienced.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:42:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Tell ya what, lets conduct our own experiment.

I usually ingest about 600 calories before I lift.

I'll get my calories from whole milk, whey protein and almond butter.

You get your 600 calories from nothing but beer.

We'll both do a heavy leg day, lots of squats.

Think we'll both have the same level of performance and recovery?

Calories are calories right?

Great idea- but beer won't work because it's all carbs while you're getting carbs, fat and protein...

How about a quarter pounder instead?


Food Item: Budweiser Beer
Food Quantity: 12 fl oz
Carbs: 12g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Net Carbs: 12g

Mostly cals from alcohol.

Just throwing that out there
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:03:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:

You're contradicting yourself within your own statement.

According to your premise a person could live entirely off Doritos as long as they met their required caloric, fat and protein intake....as long as they didn't have "an abundance of any one thing that can cause problems".

The problem of course is that it's impossible to eat enough Doritos to supply your body with enough calories, fat and protein without also ingesting far too much sodium, carbs and trans fats.




That isn't what I said at all. Doritos do not provide all of the essential nutrients your body needs. They aren't particularly balanced in the nutrition they do provide either.



Wow, ok then.....Doritos and BigMacs.....Doritos and donuts.....either way, your argument and your science is seriously flawed.

I know he's trying to say "everything in moderation" which is true. The little fact that's slipping through the cracks though is that things like transfat are bad for you in ANY amount while eggs, meat, and vegetable are GREAT for you in normal amounts.


Nothing is bad for you in totality. We regularly ingest trace amounts of mercury and arsenic and they don't have a negative impact so long as they are moderated. Our bodies are very resilient. Again, this all or nothing approach(which you deny taking and yet argue for) is BS.

No, I'm not taking an all or nothing approach. If you've seen me post before you'd know that I recommend people have a cheat every once in a while. That being said, a donut, a kitkat ice cream...it's not good for you. Period. There are things in it that are NOT good for you. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise. So yeah, eat those things in very small amounts. But once again, your MAIN SOURCE of nutrition should come from good foods, rich in vitamins and minerals with no trans fat, refined sugars, and a good balance of O3 and O6. You can't get those things from junk food.

Again, read the studies I posted. They will clear all this up for you.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:04:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Great idea- but beer won't work because it's all carbs while you're getting carbs, fat and protein...

How about a quarter pounder instead?



That was the point, he's saying people can eat anything they want as long as they keep their totals in balance.

That's impossible to do.

You can't get enough protein, vitamins, fiber, etc... from junk food without getting all the "junk" that goes with it.

By the time you've hit your protein total for the day you've easily surpassed your carb and fat total.

No, I got you
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:33:21 AM EST
You have to cheat my once a week is a giant sammich with a hard bread and loaded with veggies and a beer or two.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 11:54:57 AM EST
All good points (well maybe not all) but i think we are getting off track here.
OP mentioned he cannot escape the fatty mindset. At first a lot of it may be mindset, a lot of things in life require a certain mindset. You might need to find a way to mindfuck yourself into knowing gorging on bullshit is bad for you and especially for your goals. You obviously already inherently understand this, but we all have our weak moments right? Its a mental game. Maybe you need to find some extra motivation. Find it.

Once you develop a certain degree of fitness over the average mouth breather, you may develop a degree of confidence. Some people turn into raging jersey shore esq meatheads (nobody likes that so dont), while others may develop a quiet detached feeling of superiority. Keep on task and one day you might look at what fucked up messes most people are and think "HOLY SHIT how did they get that way". I know i do.
A few weeks ago I came to work to find one of the heavies spooning a jar of Jiffy into her face. I think i said something like "Hey how are you today?" but what i really meant was....

For the past few weeks that alone has motivated me even more. She is my white whale. Find yours.....



Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:03:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Masterbeef:
She is my white whale. Find yours.....





I love it!
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:17:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Basically this all or nothing approach to "clean eating" is BS. There is absolutely nothing wrong with eating hamburgers, pizzas, ice cream, chocolate cake, or candy.


I haven't heard RoG proffer an "all or nothing" approach - could you point out where that happened.

You're correct when you say that there is nothing wrong with the foods above. That doesn't mean that it's healthy to obtain the preponderance of one's daily caloric intake from those sources.

Nutrient dense versus calorie dense. What foods give you the high nutrient content with low calorie content? Nothing on your list...

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 12:42:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By Masterbeef:
She is my white whale. Find yours.....





I love it!


Thats good shit man
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 1:39:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 1:40:19 PM EST by kteaton]

Originally Posted By Masterbeef:others may develop a quiet detached feeling of superiority. Keep on task and one day you might look at what fucked up messes most people are and think "HOLY SHIT how did they get that way". I know i do.


I'm kind of already there. I mean, I'm no Mr. Olympia, but ever since I've started I've been comparing my progress to my surroundings. I look at other people all the time, and think about their bodies vs. mine. I've gained a level of confidence I never had before. Like, the only way I can describe is by an example of walking down a sidewalk or hallway. I used to make every attempt to squeeze and contort myself out of the way of oncoming traffic. Now I am the oncoming traffic. I stare down the people walking towards me until they get out of my way. I know that sounds douchey, and I don't mean for it to sound like I'm a prick now that I'm in better shape. But its my own little way of saying "I'm better than you" while remaining quiet and humble.

So I've got the mindset I think I need. When I eat, my focus is nutrition and fitness. But the problem is when I let myself slip. It's not like I think about shitty food all the time and crave it 24/7. It's just when I finally do have a bite, I go into "one more bite can't hurt" mode. If I don't eat it, I'm fine. The only thing stopping me is me, really. I guess I just haven't fully developed the self control I need.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:37:28 AM EST
Food addiction is the worst kind of addiction.

You can clean yourself up from alcohol or coke or crank....and never touch it again.
You might have cravings, but you can overcome it.
You die without food.


Now, imagine having to do a shot of tequila 3 times a day. Or three lines of coke, etc.
How easy would it be to kick those habits?

Stay strong, brother. Find your motivation and don't lie to yourself.
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