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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 4/13/2006 5:33:03 AM EST
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:39:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:


Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V




Find new friends?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:39:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 5:45:31 AM EST by U_Down_Wit_OPP]
It's about stopping people from illegally entering the country.
Countries have borders for a reason.
Unless we have plans on annexing Mexico, then it makes sense to delineate our border regions and make them secure. I'm definitely not the sort of guy who always tries to justify things in the context of "terrorism", but in the case of our border and its security, terrorist infiltration is an immense concern. Should we have another 9/11 (in whatever form it may take), there's a very real chance it will be perpetrated by people who entered this country illegally, using the same methods as the "good" folks who came here to pick fruit..

From a cultural standpoint, examine Miami pre-Mariel and post-Mariel and then get back to me.
We have a Mariel every day on our southern Border, and the results in the communities that wind up absorbing the illegals is much the same as it was in Miami back in the early 80's.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:40:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 5:40:43 AM EST by MagKnightX]

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V



Explain it to them just as you would a white person. They're no different. Duh.

Edit: No, there is no sarcasm in this post. Seriously.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:42:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V



Just explain to them it is a slap to all of us (or our anscestors) who came here legally. We all (well except those who came as brittish colonists I suppose) had to follow the rules and wait in line to come here.

Why should we allow people to cut in line to stay in this country? Why should we allow people that we know have contempt for the law (they are breaking the law by comming here illegally, and they obviously don't care) to become citizens?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:42:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
[
Find new friends?



I do have some of the best friends here, so that will not happen, and its not like they look down on me, but many here do not own guns and its very liberal here!
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:43:25 AM EST
Simply explain to them that LEGAL Americans, such as themselves, do not support ILLEGAL activity that negatively affects our society they busted their butts to become a part of. The crusade to end illegal immigration has nothing to do with Spainards, Mexicans, Africans, or Germans. Illegal immigration deals with people not abiding by the laws demanding the same privilages as those who do abide by the laws.

If I illegally owned a machine gun, would the legal machine gun owners here support me just because I was Caucasion? I think not. I have to EARN the right, just as they did.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:43:26 AM EST
Tell them this:

Es por el wall, mang.. no mas mexicanos aqi
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:43:32 AM EST
Are you sure they're Spanish?

I bet they're Cuban, Dominican, or Haitian.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:45:37 AM EST
The bricks are about security. Nothing more and nothing less. We don't have it. We need it. We can decide amnesty at our leisure, besides, amnesty just makes more people want to come and if they don't want to obey the law they just come anyway. The evacuation of third world shitholes must be orderly or we will become one.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:52:23 AM EST
many here are Cuban and they are different than any other person trying to come to the US. If they come Illegally via raft what ever and they hit US land they can stay. Many here point out that people come to the States to seek a better life and if that means coming across a boarder and making their life better then they would do that. Some say put their shoes on a min and what would you do for you and your family? Legal or not you want a better life and if there is a way then your going to do that for your family. They say in their country it is SHTF and they are moving out, and why would you deny them the right for a better life only because they were born in a country that they can not make a living.


Again I am trying to do my homework so I can help them understand this better, Some (not my friends) take this as a white thing and that is not what I want to come across as.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:52:38 AM EST
The issues at hand is do your friends consider themselves Americans. Immigration is the legal process of changing country of citizenship. It involves swaring an oath the the USA and denouncing allegance to your former country.

This is relivient in light of the reconquesta movement.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:55:05 AM EST
If they are catholic, it is kind of like premaritial sex. We want the legal committment, but why by the cow if you already have free milk.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 5:58:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:How do you explain someone of spanish descent the reason for sending bricks?





Easiest question I've heard so far today.

Hit 'em upside the head with one. When they come to, explain to them that what you just did was illegal...just like the actions of the criminals who are coming across the border illegally.

They'll figure it out.

Scott
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:00:19 AM EST
I find it hard to believe that they don't understand. I think most Hispanics(I'm one) understand the need for border security and the need of controlling the borders. Where many are upset is with the proposed legislation which would make it a felony to be an illegal alien. People who just want to work should not be treated as criminals.
But what gets me also is that Mexico is let off the hook. After all it's because of a corrupt and incompetent Mexican government which is unable to put into place effective economic policies to stimulate job creation that is the root of the problem.
Mexico isn't going to do anything about the illegal immingration problem. Because it relays too much on remitances(that is immigrants sending money back to family members in Mexico) and remitances are now the largest source of dollars and their economy has become too dependent on it. Mexico is destined to effectively become another state becomming more and more dependent on us. Hell they may as well get rid of thier worthless Pesos and officially adapt the Dollar.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:01:05 AM EST
Explain it like this:

Anyone who comes here (illegally) waving the Mexican flag, yelling "Viva La Rasa" and are only coming here to make more money, when they could give less than a damn about becoming an actual "American", tell them that's bad.

Simple enough.

The United States isn't the world's fucking titty. We are a nation of laws. We support legal and CONTROLLED immigration. But we don't support every Dick, Tom and Hector jumping the border as they wish and coming here to take advantage of our nation while contributing nothing back.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:01:31 AM EST
I am really surprised to learn that so many people have immigrated from Spain to south Florida.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:07:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V



Over here we have the same problem with our Mayer Villaraigosa leading the crowd
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:12:09 AM EST
YOUR FRIENDS SOUND LIKE CITIZENS, WHERE AS A LAZY NO GOOD WELL FARE MOOCHER, THAT ENTERD THIS COUNTRY ILLEAGALY AND EXPOLITS THE GOOD ASPECTS OF IT DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY!

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:14:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V



Explain it to them just as you would a white person. They're no different. Duh.

Edit: No, there is no sarcasm in this post. Seriously.




Agreed.

Even though most serial killers are white men, I don't feel any particular kinship or identification with them.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:16:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By gus:
I am really surprised to learn that so many people have immigrated from Spain to south Florida.



haha It was better to put it as spanish descent vs naming everyone's nationality! Its just not Cuban, PR, Dominican, in Miami you have every central and south American nation represented here within a 200 mile circle. Bet you have not been to Miami of late. Im on of the few left!
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:40:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:

Originally Posted By gus:
I am really surprised to learn that so many people have immigrated from Spain to south Florida.



haha It was better to put it as spanish descent vs naming everyone's nationality! Its just not Cuban, PR, Dominican, in Miami you have every central and south American nation represented here within a 200 mile circle. Bet you have not been to Miami of late. Im on of the few left!



I was just teasing a little.. But you're right, I haven't been to Miami since the mid 1970's. There was a very large hispanic population at that time too. Then it was mostly Cubans (and they seemed pretty damn glad to be there).
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:51:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 6:56:25 AM EST by U_Down_Wit_OPP]

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
Some (not my friends) take this as a white thing and that is not what I want to come across as.




It is a "white thing" by proxy of very legitimate concerns for cultural standards.
"The White Thing" is the Elephant in the room that we're all dancing around since the word "racist" makes people pee, but yes. This is a distinctly cultural issue, which given the context, translates into distinctly racial lines.

The quality of life afforded and standards set forth by our predominantly European culture is what made this country what it is. There is no denying this (even though we are expected to pretend this fundamental truism doesn’t exist and look towards the furthest reaches of achievement so other races and peoples don't feel "left out").

I am not afraid to say that I am concerned about the cultural impact we face by the influx of tens of millions of illiterate (albeit highly ethnocentric) 3rd world peasants.
Yes, I am.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:52:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
many here are Cuban and they are different than any other person trying to come to the US. If they come Illegally via raft what ever and they hit US land they can stay. Many here point out that people come to the States to seek a better life and if that means coming across a boarder and making their life better then they would do that. Some say put their shoes on a min and what would you do for you and your family? Legal or not you want a better life and if there is a way then your going to do that for your family. They say in their country it is SHTF and they are moving out, and why would you deny them the right for a better life only because they were born in a country that they can not make a living.


Again I am trying to do my homework so I can help them understand this better, Some (not my friends) take this as a white thing and that is not what I want to come across as.




If they take it as a "white thing" it's because they choose to.
Explain to them it's about national sovereignity, and we're on the verge of losing our border.
Explain to them that if there's an amnesty, it won't be just those of Hispanic descent that get to stay, it'll be Arabs, Orientals, Indians and Pakitstanis as well.
Explain to them that their living wage, as well as the national identity is at stake, and if they still choose to dismiss you as a racist fuck 'em, they ain't on your side.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:57:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Joaquin:
I find it hard to believe that they don't understand. I think most Hispanics(I'm one) understand the need for border security and the need of controlling the borders. Where many are upset is with the proposed legislation which would make it a felony to be an illegal alien. People who just want to work should not be treated as criminals.
But what gets me also is that Mexico is let off the hook. After all it's because of a corrupt and incompetent Mexican government which is unable to put into place effective economic policies to stimulate job creation that is the root of the problem.
Mexico isn't going to do anything about the illegal immingration problem. Because it relays too much on remitances(that is immigrants sending money back to family members in Mexico) and remitances are now the largest source of dollars and their economy has become too dependent on it. Mexico is destined to effectively become another state becomming more and more dependent on us. Hell they may as well get rid of thier worthless Pesos and officially adapt the Dollar.





"People who just want to work should not be treated as criminals...."

Illegal aliens, by definitation, are criminals. Yeah they may want to work for slave wage, but they're depressing our prevailing wage, dropping off their kids for us to educate populating the federal prison system by over 20% and sponging off our social services.
In this context, people who "just want to work" should indeed be treated as the criminals they are.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:07:03 AM EST
You explain to him the simple law of supply and demand.... illegal's wages will STAY BELOW MINIMUM WAGE so long as there is an inexhaustible supply of willing workers streaming across the border... so it's actually in their own vested interest that the supply of 'guest workers' be controlled to a dull roar so they'll eventually have the ability to demand better wages and working conditions.

Otherwise while it might seem like their pay is fantastic, they're actually getting screwed.

I'd also point out the hypocrisy of Democrats who only recently were demanding a rise in the minimum wage for Americans.... apparently they're simultaneously in favor of allowing illegals to be paid less than the minimum wage....

How dare you get mad about "outsourcing jobs" to other countries when the alternative is "outsourcing jobs to non-Americans here at home? - again a bit of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:21:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 7:22:23 AM EST by black_irish]
Based on what you wrote, it sounds like all your hispanic friends came here the legal way. Try contrasting how their parents/grandparents/whoever "played by the rules" to gain their citizenship with the behavior of the illegals coming from Mexico. Just because both groups speak some sort of Spanish doesn't make their ethics the same.

By the way, what do Americans of Cuban descent think of Mexican illegals? If I were descended from Cubans, I'd be a little ticked...
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 7:57:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
many here are Cuban and they are different than any other person trying to come to the US. If they come Illegally via raft what ever and they hit US land they can stay. Many here point out that people come to the States to seek a better life and if that means coming across a boarder and making their life better then they would do that. Some say put their shoes on a min and what would you do for you and your family? Legal or not you want a better life and if there is a way then your going to do that for your family. They say in their country it is SHTF and they are moving out, and why would you deny them the right for a better life only because they were born in a country that they can not make a living.


Again I am trying to do my homework so I can help them understand this better, Some (not my friends) take this as a white thing and that is not what I want to come across as.




Putting myself in their shoes I completely buy the argument of necessity. So, to help them along we need to CHANGE THE LAW not ignore the law AND IGNORE SECURITY I'm sorry but we have signed no suicide pact with any other country or people. If we have weak security we are putting citizen's lives at stakes, possibly millions. At the very least it is not for demagogues to decide it is for voters and the law. I feel sorry for people who do not live as well as we do, but you do realize there are billions of them and they live all over the world. Why favor one group over another? Get in line and take a number is the best we can do considering the circumstances. Or have a revolution (you know, change things) in your own country.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 3:28:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By black_irish:
Based on what you wrote, it sounds like all your hispanic friends came here the legal way. Try contrasting how their parents/grandparents/whoever "played by the rules" to gain their citizenship with the behavior of the illegals coming from Mexico. Just because both groups speak some sort of Spanish doesn't make their ethics the same.

By the way, what do Americans of Cuban descent think of Mexican illegals? If I were descended from Cubans, I'd be a little ticked...



Bear in mind, the rules are different for Cubans than they are for Mexicans.
Cubans who float over can claim refugee status and be on their way to legal status the moment their feet his the shore.
That isn't the case for Mexicans.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 3:31:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V



If they are from Spain or their ancestors are from Spain, they are not a huge part of the problem.
Just tell them our Nation is being over run with foriegn invaders and we must defend our borders.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:21:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
I live here in Miami FL and most of my friends are of spanish descent. Its really hard to explain to them what this whole amnesty thing means. Most of them have been here several generations and their fathers fought in our wars and or served in our military. They are law abiding people that pay taxes and do not live off the system. How do you explain to them why this is a big deal to stop and protect what is right and what it will mean in the future if they are granted amnesty.

Im thought of as a radical already with my guns and survival gear all over the house, I would just like some help outside my views!

TIA

V



If they are from Spain or their ancestors are from Spain, they are not a huge part of the problem.
Just tell them our Nation is being over run with foriegn invaders and we must defend our borders.



Beat me -
Those are Spanish invaders, it's too far to swim, and they have their own problems with the Basques, anyway.

The invaders are mostly Mexican Indians, remnants of the Aztecs from Central and South America, and depending on the country, particularly in the Caribbean, people of mixed black and native blood, and probably a little European swimming around in lots of instances.

They speak the Spanish because the Padres and Conquistadors told them they were going to.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:32:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 6:33:04 PM EST by OFFSHORE]

but many here do not own guns and its very liberal here!


I am a native Floridian (30 years old). I have never met a Cuban that didn't own a gun. They know what it is like to have their freedom/country revoked. My father-in-law is from Cuba and he is all for "the wall".
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:24:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By mousehunter:
If they are catholic, it is kind of like premaritial sex. We want the legal committment, but why by the cow if you already have free milk.



Excellent now all we have to do is convince our politicians of the same thought pattern.

Alvin
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