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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/8/2005 5:40:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 6:05:05 PM EDT by FordGuy]
I tried IMing the sys message, it is not accepting.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:42:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 5:43:44 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:44:33 PM EDT
Aimless, I posted a poll specifically to LEOs asking whether they would obey orders to confiscate - staff shut it down and told me to contac them with my complaints...I think that poll is vital...how do I explain why it is so important to staff so that they might reopen it?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:47:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:50:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
I tried IMing the sys message, it is not accepting.



Try starting a thread in the AZHTF with a title of Tango Oscar November,,,,,,,,,,


Just kidding! Bad idea. Post it in the WA HTF....
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:52:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 5:54:56 PM EDT by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
Aimless, I posted a poll specifically to LEOs asking whether they would obey orders to confiscate - staff shut it down and told me to contac them with my complaints...I think that poll is vital...how do I explain why it is so important to staff so that they might reopen it?

Ford, if you notice, 82nd Abn included a link to a thread entitled "What do you think about the firearm confiscation in New Orleans?" which makes yours arguably a duplicate topic. Locking of threads on the same subject that come after the original is intended to cut down on several threads on exactly the same subject.
No big deal, really.



Hey, Doublefeed, thanks. Actually, asking LEOs whether THEY will obey an order to take our guns is very different from a general question to a bunchof gun guys as to what they think. It is all in how you ask they question. LEOs can say in the other thread theydon't like it...but in my thread that they WILL confiscate! very different question, very differnet target group!

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:53:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:02:39 PM EDT
shit guys! you can't tell me you guys don't want to know what percentage of LEOs will obey an order to confistate guns! I have IMed 82ndABN asking him to reconsider....

If you ask whether gun confiscation is OK on a gun board, 99% of posters will say it's not ok...
if you ask LEOs whether they will obey an order to confiscate, well...WE DON"T KNOW WHAT THE RESULT WILL BE SINCE 82ndABN LOCKED IT!

Come on, surely i'm not the only one that can see the distinction in the questions, and to the target groups.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:08:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:11:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Ford, you're not going to get an accurate answer. Here's on this site, you have the gun owner LEOs. Not all LEOs are gun owners. Some of them hate guns.
The LEOs we have here know when to ignore a topic and when to answer. Your topic would be ignored.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.



I'd normally agree with you but within about 5 minutes we had 2 LEOs say they WOULD confiscate! we're talking about people that are inclined to be here, with the reaonable inference that they are like-minded gun folks, and they said they would obey the order to confiscate!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:13:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:14:45 PM EDT
...and after saying I should "contact staff with [my] complaints" he won't respond to my IMs - I just wanted to make the point that they are two very different questions. If the poll is otherwise objectionable, then I'd understand and stand down, no problem. I just was hoping to get some sort of good faith answer, from one ABN soldier to another...
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:16:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:18:55 PM EDT
The problem with your post was that it bumped one of the 200 New Orleans post down the page and we just couldn't bear that.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:19:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:20:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 6:21:50 PM EDT by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
...and after saying I should "contact staff with [my] complaints" he won't respond to my IMs - I just wanted to make the point that they are two very different questions. If the poll is otherwise objectionable, then I'd understand and stand down, no problem. I just was hoping to get some sort of good faith answer, from one ABN soldier to another...

It simply is that the topic was a duplicate. Yes, there is a distinction between the wording, but the topic is Gun confiscation in New Orleans.
He's probably off somewhere muttering about the legs.



Aimless, would you ever let the other atty control your cross examination? The question was distinct, and needs to be answered. I give up guys. We KNOW how therun of the mill LEO will handle the order to confiscate. If I am the only soul that gives a shit about what gun-minded LEOs would do, then screw it. I know how I will answer the fucking door.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:21:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
...and after saying I should "contact staff with [my] complaints" he won't respond to my IMs - I just wanted to make the point that they are two very different questions. If the poll is otherwise objectionable, then I'd understand and stand down, no problem. I just was hoping to get some sort of good faith answer, from one ABN soldier to another...

It simply is that the topic was a duplicate. Yes, there is a distinction between the wording, but the topic is Gun confiscation in New Orleans.
He's probably off somewhere muttering about the legs.



Aimless, would you ever let the other atty control your cross examination? The question was distinct, and needs to be answered. I give up guys. We KNOW how therun of the mill LEO will handle the order to confiscate. If I am the only soul that gives a shit about what gun-minded LEOs would do, then screw it. I know how I will answer the fucking door.



Post it in the LEO forum. Posting it in GD is just asking for non-LE types to respond so it wouldn't be a really valid poll anyway, methinks.

And no, you are not the only one who is curious.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:24:29 PM EDT
It's a dumb question. The question you need to ask is what will you do when they come for your guns?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:26:46 PM EDT
What guns??

OOOH those well ya see we were fishing out off point 4 and one hell uva storm blew in and um well ya see
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:27:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:27:59 PM EDT
IBAL= In Before Another Lock
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:29:48 PM EDT
+1
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:29:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:30:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It's a dumb question. The question you need to ask is what will you do when they come for your guns?



Man, I gotta agree with you here - I just wanted to give LEOs a chance to prove us wrong - all those posts about how they would cave in and go house to house, collecting guns, and this was an excellent chance to get some hard data on that specific question.

Looks like 82ndABN would rather make room for "what your drinking tonight" and "which dog food."
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:32:37 PM EDT
Taking a big whiff



Sniffing the air

somethin ain't right
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:34:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
...and after saying I should "contact staff with [my] complaints" he won't respond to my IMs - I just wanted to make the point that they are two very different questions. If the poll is otherwise objectionable, then I'd understand and stand down, no problem. I just was hoping to get some sort of good faith answer, from one ABN soldier to another...

It simply is that the topic was a duplicate. Yes, there is a distinction between the wording, but the topic is Gun confiscation in New Orleans.
He's probably off somewhere muttering about the legs.



Aimless, would you ever let the other atty control your cross examination? The question was distinct, and needs to be answered. I give up guys. We KNOW how therun of the mill LEO will handle the order to confiscate. If I am the only soul that gives a shit about what gun-minded LEOs would do, then screw it. I know how I will answer the fucking door.

I used to be a GD mod. I know how and why they lock topics. When 82nd links to another thread, he's telling you that your's is a duplicate.
Two ways to avoid confiscation:
You are elsewhere.
Your guns are elsewhere.



Doublefeed, seriously, thanks for the input, but if you can't see the difference in the two questions, and the two target groups, I can't make you understand. Shit looks like shinola, but one is great on your shoes...!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:35:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zipper:
Taking a big whiff



Sniffing the air

somethin ain't right



Use Old Spice next time.

I don't think he is trolling, it seems like a timely topic, and I was curious as well.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:37:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zipper:
Taking a big whiff



Sniffing the air

somethin ain't right



he still hasn't answered my IM either. Like I said, if there is some other reason why the question is objectionable, im a big boy, I understand the site has gotta do what it's gotta do, just tell me that, and no problem. I can't even get the courtesy of his(their) rationale..
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By zipper:
Taking a big whiff



Sniffing the air

somethin ain't right



Use Old Spice next time.

I don't think he is trolling, it seems like a timely topic, and I was curious as well.



I actually thought his comment was directed at 82ndABN? Hope it wasn't aimed at me!
I just can't believe there isn't massive interest in this topic. I don't get it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:41:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By zipper:
Taking a big whiff



Sniffing the air

somethin ain't right



he still hasn't answered my IM either. Like I said, if there is some other reason why the question is objectionable, im a big boy, I understand the site has gotta do what it's gotta do, just tell me that, and no problem. I can't even get the courtesy of his(their) rationale..



IM & Email turned off
What is it you would like to say???
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:45:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zipper:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By zipper:
Taking a big whiff



Sniffing the air

somethin ain't right



he still hasn't answered my IM either. Like I said, if there is some other reason why the question is objectionable, im a big boy, I understand the site has gotta do what it's gotta do, just tell me that, and no problem. I can't even get the courtesy of his(their) rationale..



IM & Email turned off
What is it you would like to say???



who's is turned off? mine? i got one from someone else saying they were interested also. I sent him an im (if I did it right) explaining the questions were different, how they were different, and asking him to reconsider. tried to be tactful andpolite (obviously tough for me!) no response.

My point is that it is possible for an LEO to say in the other poll that he did not agree with the poll...
But to say in mine that he would comply with the order to confiscate!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:47:25 PM EDT
Possible: Yes
Realistic: No
Unless they just wanted to screw with you.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:50:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Ford, you're not going to get an accurate answer. Here's on this site, you have the gun owner LEOs. Not all LEOs are gun owners. Some of them hate guns.
The LEOs we have here know when to ignore a topic and when to answer. Your topic would be ignored.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.





Can't disagree, cause I think we know where most of them stand.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:54:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Ford, you're not going to get an accurate answer. Here's on this site, you have the gun owner LEOs. Not all LEOs are gun owners. Some of them hate guns.
The LEOs we have here know when to ignore a topic and when to answer. Your topic would be ignored.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.





Can't disagree, cause I think we know where most of them stand.

TXL



My topic would be ignored? We'll never know...IT"S LOCKED!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:55:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:01:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:03:42 PM EDT by sledhead907]
It sucks, but it's their job as an LEO to obey their officers. I’m in the military...everyone knows that it's NOT a democracy. The LEO's are in the same position as I often am (not in agreement with management). Because I don't agree with what the "uppers" tell me doesn't mean that I don’t obey what they tell me to do. It's their job to carryout whatever orders are given. If they don't agree and obey with said orders...than they risk loosing their job. If I was an LEO I would take their guns...It's a job, and it sucks that it has come to this point, but if "they" say that it's got to be done, than its got to be done.

Edit to add: I would ask for their weapons...if they say they dont have any...than thats that...no force needed.

I am curious for the LEO's answers as well.


-Derek
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:06:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
Aimless, I posted a poll specifically to LEOs asking whether they would obey orders to confiscate - staff shut it down and told me to contac them with my complaints...I think that poll is vital...how do I explain why it is so important to staff so that they might reopen it?



At the bottom right hand corner of the system message box it tells who locked it, that's who you want to IM. The buttons in that system message box don't work.



How'd ya find that out
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:09:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:10:03 PM EDT by krpind]

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
It sucks, but it's their job as an LEO to obey their officers. I’m in the military...everyone knows that it's NOT a democracy. The LEO's are in the same position as I often am (not in agreement with management). Because I don't agree with what the "uppers" tell me doesn't mean that I don’t obey what they tell me to do. It's their job to carryout whatever orders are given. If they don't agree and obey with said orders...than they risk loosing their job. If I was an LEO I would take their guns...It's a job, and it sucks that it has come to this point, but if "they" say that it's got to be done, than its got to be done.

Edit to add: I would ask for their weapons...if they say they dont have any...than thats that...no force needed.

I am curious for the LEO's answers as well.


-Derek



I disagree, they take an oath to uphold The Constitution, not an oath to obey their "uppers".
The Constitution they swear to uphold, clearly states "Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
Hence the relevence of the thread.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:14:05 PM EDT
you don't need to ask. EVERYONE of them with obey if they will loose their job if they don't. internet talk is BS. all of the guys that are saying "from my cold dead hands" and "i know how i would answer the door" will give up thier guns and do what they are told. this country has not been America for many years. everyone on this and every other gun forum (myself included) are all pussys. the strongest rebelion you will ever see will be people running away to hide and try to survive. this is the pathetic truth.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:20:35 PM EDT by FordGuy]

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
It sucks, but it's their job as an LEO to obey their officers. I’m in the military...everyone knows that it's NOT a democracy. The LEO's are in the same position as I often am (not in agreement with management). Because I don't agree with what the "uppers" tell me doesn't mean that I don’t obey what they tell me to do. It's their job to carryout whatever orders are given. If they don't agree and obey with said orders...than they risk loosing their job. If I was an LEO I would take their guns...It's a job, and it sucks that it has come to this point, but if "they" say that it's got to be done, than its got to be done.

Edit to add: I would ask for their weapons...if they say they dont have any...than thats that...no force needed.

I am curious for the LEO's answers as well.


-Derek



I disagree, they take an oath to uphold The Constitution, not an oath to obey their "uppers".
The Constitution they swear to uphold, clearly states "Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
Hence the relevence of the thread.



+1 there is also a mechanism to deal with an illegal order. Sledhead907, ever hear of LT. Calley? he was just following orders. Ever hear of Neremburg? "JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS!"

"just following orders" didn't carry the day in Neurmburg: Didn't save Lt. Calley's ass either.

this just proves my personal convictioni that we have such short memories, we are unable to learn from our own history, from our own mistakes. Please re-think this sledhead. Remember your "general orders?" what if a specific order conflicts with one of your general orders...say, I shall not leave my post unless properly relieved.....

EDit: and sledhead, you can't tell me they stopped telling you about Lt. calley in basic....I got it in basic, and in OCS, and in OBC, in OAC, in CAS3....
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:21:19 PM EDT
Yes, they take an oath...if they like their jobs than they will do the job that they were told to do. In my opinion if it's out of site and out of mind than who am I to go in someone's house looking for guns? If they are outside waving it around...I would take it...try to anyways

Sorry to hijack your thread FordGuy...some of the responces stired my curiosity...just wanted to put my .2 cents in.

-Derek



Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
It sucks, but it's their job as an LEO to obey their officers. I’m in the military...everyone knows that it's NOT a democracy. The LEO's are in the same position as I often am (not in agreement with management). Because I don't agree with what the "uppers" tell me doesn't mean that I don’t obey what they tell me to do. It's their job to carryout whatever orders are given. If they don't agree and obey with said orders...than they risk loosing their job. If I was an LEO I would take their guns...It's a job, and it sucks that it has come to this point, but if "they" say that it's got to be done, than its got to be done.

Edit to add: I would ask for their weapons...if they say they dont have any...than thats that...no force needed.

I am curious for the LEO's answers as well.


-Derek



I disagree, they take an oath to uphold The Constitution, not an oath to obey their "uppers".
The Constitution they swear to uphold, clearly states "Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
Hence the relevence of the thread.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:27:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zipper:
Possible: Yes
Realistic: No
Unless they just wanted to screw with you.



so you are saying it is unrealistic to say "sure I disagree with the confiscation, but if told to do it, I would comply with the order." How is that unrealistic? Have you never done something you weren't comfortable with?

Is it unrealistic to say, "I disagree with the rule about driving 55, but I will comply with the law."

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
If they are outside waving it around...I would take it...try to anyways




If they are a lawabiding citizen, minding their own business, in their own yard, you feel justified with taking a weapon from that citizen?

How do you reconcile that with the oath you took to uphold The Constitution? Are your orders more important than the promise (oath) you made to your bosses (the citzens who pay you)

Not flaming......I am genuinely curious as to your mindset, considering how much of a gross misuse of power this is to me.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:32:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:33:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:33:42 PM EDT by 82ndAbn]
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