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Posted: 4/16/2006 1:37:27 PM EST
I was having a discussion with my ultra-liberal step father. He said that we need to get gas prices lowered. I agree with that, but he says the way that we do it is to protest. According to him, that will let them know that we are upset. Whooptee-fricken-doo. Do you think they really care? I told him that would do nothing. Sometimes I wonder if there is even a peanut in these liberal's head. That is all. Sorry, I just had to vent.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:39:24 PM EST
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:39:25 PM EST
how to lower gas prices? unless you work in the energy industry, you don't have much control over the supply-side situation, so you'll have to lower demand.

buy a hybrid. bike. or walk.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:39:54 PM EST
call congress and tell them to rescind their stupid ethanol mandate (call GWB too)
lobby for drilling in anwr and offshore, and the building of more refineries

of course, it would pretty much be a waste of time since our government seems to be for sale to the hightest bidder. You can't compete with ADM.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:41:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...



It's as if some invisible hand adjusts prices.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:43:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...



It's as if some invisible hand adjusts prices.



You mean its not just an arbitrary number determined by the roll of 10d10 every morning?!

I'll be damned.......
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:43:38 PM EST
So you guys are saying that a bunch of wienies with thier picket signs won't do it? What a concept.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:43:49 PM EST
right now, its all speculative right?

meaning its not really demand driving the prices, its the bs flying around the market place making it trade higher and higher...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:44:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 1:45:01 PM EST by SubnetMask]

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...



It's as if some invisible hand adjusts prices.





shop_rat45: Tell your step father to quit buying gas.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:45:11 PM EST
IBPO

In Before Peak Oil.

One of the best ways to lower gas prices is to recind the taxes on every gallon. That would lower it about 30 some cents per gallon.

The next best way would be to put in an express method of permitting the building of new refineries in this country. Do you realize that there is about 10 years of paperwork to do before you can turn over a shovelful of dirt? Oh, and then there is the NIMBY of a new refinery to deal with also.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:45:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...



You will get many answers here. All but this one are WRONG.

Only one thing will lower prices......decreased demand.

That's all.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:48:05 PM EST
In America, gasoline is cheap. Stop whining.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:49:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...

I got news for ya. Driving your car less isn't gonna do a damn thing.

I put around $450 worth of diesel into my Kenworth every other day.

My company alone has 15k trucks. 97% of everything that you use, see, touch, or think about is at one point or another transported by a big truck. Complicating this is that CDL-A drivers is one of the fastet growing fields EVER they are slowly increasing our pay because demand for us. So because of higher cost for drivers, fuel costs going up etc, we have to charge more to ship stuff. Shippers have to pay more for that and they recoup some of that loss from the retailers. The retailers increase prices to the consumer to recoup the shipping money they've spent.

That was inflation 101, I'll be giving advanced classes thursday at 9.

Prices on all commodities bounce up and down. Fuel is high right now and probably won't come down.

Oil companies are posting record profits yes, but that's their right, after all we are (thank god) a society that functions and thrives on capitalism. The big truck companies are working to make more fuel efficiant trucks for us to buy and use but in they end, they cost more money. I'm usually a very optimistic person, but on the subject of Gas prices, I'd say we are stuck.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:50:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By bastiat:
call congress and tell them to rescind their stupid ethanol mandate (call GWB too)
lobby for drilling in anwr and offshore, and the building of more refineries


of course, it would pretty much be a waste of time since our government seems to be for sale to the hightest bidder. You can't compete with ADM.



+1

Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:51:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...

I hate it when people make intelligent posts that can be backed up with hard data.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:52:34 PM EST
Bitch and cry like we did last time it hit over $3 here. Show all the shit in the newspapers and on National TV. That should help lower it again.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:55:19 PM EST
Hmmmm isn't OPEC artificially limiting supply?

So why aren't we pumping Iraq dry?

I don't think they give a shit about protestors...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:08:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 2:09:20 PM EST by All_Beef_Patty]

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...



This will work in the short-run. In the long run, lower demand and lower prices will cause less investment in the industry and supply will be reduced too, bringing prices back to their long-run average.

Edited because I screwed up the quote tags.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:09:21 PM EST
Last time I checked Supply wasn't going Up cause of OPEC and demand for sure isnt' going down. So how then do we lower prices?
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:13:17 PM EST
The govts should ease of on the requirements of theair pollution rules. The yeild for a barrel of crude has decreased 10-20% because of govt mandates for cleaner burning fuel. The cost of diesel fuel is going up dramatically once the low-sulfur fuel is fully implemented.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:13:35 PM EST
I plan on riding my motorcycle everywhere I can. Might as well get 55mpg compared to the 12-14 in the truck.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:13:54 PM EST
i hope prices go high.. high prices gives incentives to find alternatives. alternatives MAY get us off the middle beastern/venezuela oil tit so we to tell a lot of worthless countries to FOAD.. time for america to get innovative again...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:17:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:19:27 PM EST
Tell the Europeans, Chinese, and South Americans to stop buying oil.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:19:53 PM EST
Don't buy it.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:20:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...



You will get many answers here. All but this one are WRONG.

Only one thing will lower prices......decreased demand.

That's all.




OP takin' a well deserved break eh?
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:20:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:
So you guys are saying that a bunch of wienies with thier picket signs won't do it?



Why not? It seems to work for everything else.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:21:38 PM EST
Mr. Fusion
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:24:49 PM EST
If we were imperialists, we wouldn't have a supply problem. The rest of the world would.

Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:27:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 2:28:20 PM EST by Journier]
mr. fusion wont work dumb dumb.

mr. fusion only powers the time piece, not the vehicle itself.

so we still need gasoline + mr. fusion to go back in time and go buy cheap gasoline.


do some research next time.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 2:29:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Hmmmm isn't OPEC artificially limiting supply?

So why aren't we pumping Iraq dry?

I don't think they give a shit about protestors...

Iraq invaded Kuwait for oil if that gives you any idea of it's domestic supplies.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 3:50:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 3:52:15 PM EST by txgp17]

Originally Posted By Journier:
mr. fusion wont work dumb dumb.
mr. fusion only powers the time piece, not the vehicle itself.
so we still need gasoline + mr. fusion to go back in time and go buy cheap gasoline.
do some research next time.

OWNED

Originally Posted By st0newall:
i hope prices go high.. high prices gives incentives to find alternatives. alternatives MAY get us off the middle beastern/venezuela oil tit so we to tell a lot of worthless countries to FOAD.. time for america to get innovative again...

Another excellent point. If gas were to hit $4/gallon for a few months, and stay there, think of the number of people that would make wiser decision on more fuel efficient vehicles.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 3:57:05 PM EST
Find this man if you want to lower priced gas.....


Link Posted: 4/16/2006 3:59:12 PM EST
People want to burn gas. They want the big surburbans and big engines with big horsepower. As long as we burn it like it's going out of style,(small pun there) the price will stay up.

Want the price down? simple. Mandate a 5% average rise in fuel effency from the auto makers, along with streamlining the building of refineries. Tell ethanol producers to piss up a rope.

But then, what do I know... fullclip
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:03:17 PM EST
One thing that would be a start is keeping only one standard for reformulated gasoline (typically large metropolitan areas are required by the EPA the use a reformulated gasoline to cut emissions - in generic terms this would be 'city' gas verus 'country' gas).. As an example VA has the same formulation of gas for the NOVA and Richmond areas.. BUT Chicago has something like a dozen different reformulated gasolines.. This difference increases productions and transportation costs drastically..

IMHO - The idea of cutting taxes would not do any good.. Here in VA we have $0.175/gal state tax.. NC is closer to $0.24/gal - BUT from my experience the retail price in VA is not $0.07 cheaper.. it seems to me that the majors (exxon etc) keep the pricing where they want it - which does not take tax rates into account.. ALSO the tax money goes to rebuilding/maintaining the roads..

just my thoughts.

brian


Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:06:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 4:09:05 PM EST by argoyle]

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...




This statement is the dumbest thing I've read all week.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:32:13 PM EST
Invade Venezuela
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:33:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By argoyle:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...




This statement is the dumbest thing I've read all week.



Hopefully you're kidding.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:41:00 PM EST
Reduce your gas costs by buying less.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:47:39 PM EST
You know, most Americans are now so ignorant when it comes economics that they do not understand the laws of supply and demand. So the post above is probably serious. Pitiful.

Really doesn't matter. We can double fuel economy overnight in the US and effect price very little. China is driving prices up as much or more than we are.

Also cars are a small part of the equation. Of all the petroleum based fuel used ships account for 30%. Cars are a red herring. They are very obvious symbols of pollution and petro use and easy targets for the green nuts even though they are a small part of the alleged problem.

Govt. regulations and lack of refineries is a bigger problem
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:47:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 4:49:27 PM EST by argoyle]

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By argoyle:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...




This statement is the dumbest thing I've read all week.



Hopefully you're kidding.




Not at all. It's the perfect example, of well, I think Pope said it best: "A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."


It just ain't right.


ETA: I took this out of my other post, but it seems like I should add this: I teach economics for a living.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:48:58 PM EST
God help us!
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:49:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By argoyle:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By argoyle:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Decrease demand. Demand drops, supply increases, prices fall. Almost as if there were some insidious law at work...




This statement is the dumbest thing I've read all week.



Hopefully you're kidding.




Not at all. It's the perfect example, of well, I think Pope said it best: "A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

ETA: I took this out of my other post, but it seems like I should add this: I teach economics for a living.




And you troll for a hobby?
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:54:33 PM EST
How many DU idiots have we had here today?

How's this? If we woke up tomorrow morning and no one anywhere in the world needed any petroleum products, what would the price of crude be by sundown?
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:55:13 PM EST
Not a troll here. I've just noticed a bunch of Oil/Gas price threads, and a pet peeve of mine is the misuse of basic economic terminology and concepts. People cry "Supply and Demand" but have no idea how to apply the basic concept. And I know there are a few people that claim to be economists on the board that should be able to back up my overall disagreement of the ideas in this thread.

Here goes:

A decrease in the demand for gasoline (say from a decrease in income, or increased conservation) will reduce the equilibrium quantity of gasoline and would also decrease the quantity of gasoline supplied. This would reduce the equilibrium price of gasoline NOT INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF GAS AS PREVIOUSLY STATED.

I'm a believer in S/D as a simple yet powerful model of competitive markets. But I get irritated with the misuse of this framework.

Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:00:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By st0newall:
i hope prices go high.. high prices gives incentives to find alternatives. alternatives MAY get us off the middle beastern/venezuela oil tit so we to tell a lot of worthless countries to FOAD.. time for america to get innovative again...



I feel the same way.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:04:45 PM EST
I figured kicking the shit out of an oil producing country would do it, since saving one didn't......
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:05:29 PM EST
The Ft. worth star telegram had a article yesterday (sat) about the CEO of Texxaco (I think, maybe mobil, heck it does not matter) that makes a avg. of 144K per DAY. I think I speak for all when I say "thats bullshit" If he is making that much then why the hell are we still paying 3 bucks a gallon?
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:06:05 PM EST
Decrease demand is the fun, chirpy, and trendy thing to say, but it isnt the best way, not by a long shot.

Build more refineries is the best way. Right now, our refineries are operating at 100% capacity. It doesnt matter if we get a shitload more barrels of oil a day, we cant refine it fast enough. We haventy built any refineries in years, and its not for a lack of trying. Everytime one is proposed some Greeny Weenie motherfucking group say it bad for the enviroment, what about poor animals, and shit like that. Who fucking cares? While its true refining oil is a dirty business, it is a neccesary one. I couldnt give two shits, much less one, if some turtle dies if it means more, and cheaper, gas. The Saudis, alone, have pledged to give us 1 million more barrels of oil, per day, per new refinery built.

I can solve the border issue, along with the gas price issue, and the unemployment issue.

Build 5 refineries in Mexico.

The jobs created there to not only staff, but build, maintain, and guard them will reduce the numbers of illegals coming over the border. It will give good jobs to the many unemployed.

Then consider all the new pipelines and railroad tracks that will need to be built to deliver the gas to the US. The railroads and pipelines companies will have to hire more people to run the trains, build the tracks, build the yards, ferret crews too and from the trains. Train crews have to sleep somewhere when they are away, so that means more motels will need building, and those crews have to eat, some more resturaunts will need building as well.

Then companies like Electro-Motive Division and General Electric will to hire more people here and in Canada, to build more locomotives. Companies like Trinity Industries, Midwest Railcar, etc. will need to hire more people to build the tank cars to transport the gas, and more flatcars to transport the piping for pipelines.

For, Chevy, and Dodge will need to build more trucks, vans, cars, and SUVs to haul around Managers, crew changers, tie gangs, and other honchos.

Kenworth and Peterbilt, etc. will need to make more trucks, for deliveries, and specialty trucks for railroad tie gangs.

The states and Mexico will have to hire people to pave roads. So that means more concrete, rebar, and other concrete accessories will be needed, and transported by rails from China, via ports at Long Beach, CA. Not to mention the specialty equipment needed for those jobs.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:08:40 PM EST
Get a bike, become a biker
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:14:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 5:16:08 PM EST by SnoopisTDI]
Drive less and use alternative fuels. Argoyle, alternative fuels will increase supply.

As for the CEO of Texaco, I don't think 144k/day is out of line when you consider where we'd be without them.


Build 5 refineries in Mexico.

And if Fox says, "accept 20million more invader labor or we stop sending gas," then what? I thought we were trying to reduce price and dependence on foreign energy.

(edit to replace oil with a refined product)
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