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Posted: 2/6/2016 8:26:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2016 11:30:42 AM EDT by VBC]
First target shot and the better of two targets.  Glock 17 Gen 3 on left.   HK VP9 on right.  115 gr Blazer Brass FMJ.  50 ft.  




ETA -- UPDATE -- Official Rules of the Challenge if you want to partake.


It's easy.  Shoot at an NRA B-3 target at 50 ft.  Standing, unsupported.  At your first target of the day, fire a full magazine from your CCW weapon at the target at a rate of one shot per 2-3 seconds or so, and post your results.  Simple.

Ideally, you will shoot at an NRA B-3 target placed at 50-ft in an indoor shooting range with poor lighting.  People shooting in the lanes on both sides of you.  Arriving hungry and having a guy shooting a braked SBR next to you even better.

However, realizing that those conditions can be elusive for many, you can recreate the B-3 target if you must and place it at 50 ft.  Please make sure this is 50 ft (or 16.7 yards or 17 yards) based on some reference and not guessing, and not pacing the distance.  OR, you can shoot at the 25 yard NRA target at 25 yards.

You will fire one full magazine from you common carry gun using factory plinking ammo at the target.  First target counts and is the one you will display for all of Arfcom to judge and ridicule, or adore.

You can fire a second CCW gun at a second target as well.  Same conditions.  First target from that gun must be displayed as well.

Be honest, since any undue adoration from Arfcom will bite you in the ass Karma-ically some time in the near future. For example, you will suffer from ED when trying to please your woman.

This is the official callout list of the thread.  These are the posters who insulted my shooting and are thus called out to prove they are worthy to say my shooting sucks.

Chokey
BoxofRox
mongo001:
fsj_man:
Seanquigley
AmericanSoldier1989
titleiiredneck
aardvark_ratnick
texasbagman
BigPapaColt
beatjunglist
Cypher214
callgood
Madcap72 x 2

Madcap has a x 2 because he also owes 220ST a callout for claiming "$100/hr training fee" without having a instructors icon.

You don't have to be on the callout list to compete in the contest.  This is for your enjoyment as well.



These are the dimensions if you need to recreate the B-3 target for the challenge.

Originally Posted By 220ST:

Taken from the NRA Pistol Rules:

4.3 50 foot timed or rapid fi re - 9 and 10 rings black. Target
No. B-3.
X ring ......................0.90 in
10 ring ....................1.80 in
9 ring .......................3.06 in
8 ring .......................4.46 in
7 ring .......................6.14 in
6 ring .......................8.32 in
View Quote


http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/rulebooks/pistol/pistol-book.pdf
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The most important is the black circle be 3.06" in diameter.

Or as another alternative, targets can be found here:

It scales just a hair under the true dimensions.    If you placed it at 49.5 ft it would probably make up the difference.

Originally Posted By SleepingBirdDog:

2nd one, I think.
http://www.mtstate.org/misc/OSU-Pistol_Targets-50.pdf
View Quote


If you'd like to buy the real deal.

Originally Posted By 220ST:
Targets here:

Amazon B-3 Targets

View Quote




GO!

If you think this is stupid, then don't rise up to the challenge.  But don't pollute the thread with your jibberish.

The list of honor.  These posters have risen to the challenge and proven themselves beyond a reasonable doubt by participating in the challenge and posting their results for all of arfcom to adore. They have earned full, unrestricted rights to say VBC sucks at shooting any time and any place they see fit.

LIST OF HONOR

QP031
afd201
TheGunslinger
L_JE
corrosionguy
STJ
X-CaptHook
isa268
Walkure
Lomshek
Diesel_Maximus_2992
220ST
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:27:10 PM EDT
not bad ... if you had your eyes shut
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:27:46 PM EDT
Try a full choke next time.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:28:12 PM EDT
Mini-14?
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:32:34 PM EDT
Would that be good enough to qualify for a CCW permit?
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:36:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
Would that be good enough to qualify for a CCW permit?
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lol yes
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:37:13 PM EDT
A longer straw would make those spitballs group better.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:38:54 PM EDT
Start dry firing once a day, 25-50 reps on a small dot on the wall from 3 feet away.

Focus on trigger pull, your hold being the same each time and focusing on your front site for a 'reset'.

You'll close those 'groups' significantly after a few weeks of it.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:42:19 PM EDT
need a bit more practice.  Start a bit closer in in, and work on getting consistent tight groups, and then move out towards 50ft.

I found it easier to just shoot whatever pistol I was comfortable with (stick with the glock or the vp), worked on my fundamentals.  Once you find out what works for you, shooting good with most pistols is easy.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:43:24 PM EDT
That's not at 7 ft.   More like 17 yards.   I don't think that's too bad unsupported on an empty stomach poor lighting and a dude shooting a braked SBR next to you.  I can do better though.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:47:16 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fsj_man:


A longer straw would make those spitballs group better.
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I thought they were spit balls too.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:48:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Mini-14?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Mini-14?



Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
Try a full choke next time.





Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:48:59 PM EDT
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:50:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 8:51:10 PM EDT by AmericanSoldier1989]
Those targets would make Hellen Keller laugh
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:51:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.
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Nice pattern, is that bird shot?
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:51:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 8:52:13 PM EDT by CaliContractor]
You need more practice. I have a vp9 and can easily keep those shots in the black at 15 yards.  I was working on 40 yard shots not to long ago and the group at 40 is better then those you have posted.  My 15 yard groups are fairly rapid fire. Are you shooting both eyes open or do you close one?

Print up the dot torture test it helped my wife become a better shot pretty fast
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:52:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CaliContractor:
You need more practice. I have a vp9 and can easily keep those shots in the black at 15 yards.  I was working on 40 yard shots not to long ago and the group at 40 is better then those you have posted.  My 15 yard groups are fairly rapid fire. Are you shooting both eyes open or do you close one?
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I say you're full of shit.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:52:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.
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I am a good shot, and I ain't making fun of you.  Just relaying what worked for me.  I also like putting snap caps in the mags randomly so that the new shooter can see the anticipation/flinching easily.  Helped out two coworkers recently doing that.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:57:08 PM EDT
What's the diameter of the largest circle?

I usually shoot at steel out to ~50 yards (there's a drill that starts you on a 40% IPSC at 50 yards I do) and everything else is on a small pie plate that you need to keep the rounds within the middle (not the frilly edges).
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:57:27 PM EDT
Never understood why people set up a target at 15 yds.( at the range I RSO at) and shoot with a new gun and are newish shooters!!
I tell them to go to the 7 yd and practice with the gun and learn it then go longer if they wish.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:58:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By VBC:


I say you're full of shit.
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By CaliContractor:
You need more practice. I have a vp9 and can easily keep those shots in the black at 15 yards.  I was working on 40 yard shots not to long ago and the group at 40 is better then those you have posted.  My 15 yard groups are fairly rapid fire. Are you shooting both eyes open or do you close one?


I say you're full of shit.


Well now....

Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:59:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gammaecho22:
What's the diameter of the largest circle?

I usually shoot at steel out to ~50 yards (there's a drill that starts you on a 40% IPSC at 50 yards I do) and everything else is on a small pie plate that you need to keep the rounds within the middle (not the frilly edges).
View Quote


You guys never seen that target before?   It's about the size of somebody's head.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 8:59:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
That's not at 7 ft.   More like 17 yards.   I don't think that's too bad unsupported on an empty stomach poor lighting and a dude shooting a braked SBR next to you.  I can do better though.
View Quote


He said it was 50 feet.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:00:21 PM EDT
Don't let them beat you up to much. Practice fundamentals, we have a lot of useful information on this website you can use for your advantage right here on this site (not GD). Keep on shootin'!
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:00:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jarhead13:
Never understood why people set up a target at 15 yds.( at the range I RSO at) and shoot with a new gun and are newish shooters!!
I tell them to go to the 7 yd and practice with the gun and learn it then go longer if they wish.
View Quote


I shoot a ragged hole at 7 yds.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:02:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:


You guys never seen that target before?   It's about the size of somebody's head.
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By gammaecho22:
What's the diameter of the largest circle?

I usually shoot at steel out to ~50 yards (there's a drill that starts you on a 40% IPSC at 50 yards I do) and everything else is on a small pie plate that you need to keep the rounds within the middle (not the frilly edges).


You guys never seen that target before?   It's about the size of somebody's head.


Are we talking Gilbert Godfrey's head or a Shaquille ONeil melon?
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:03:26 PM EDT
If you shot that quickly that is not bad, slow and deliberate, eh.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:03:41 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:


I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.
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That's the problem.

 



Go to a bullseye or IPSC match and see what some people who are good at it can do.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:04:12 PM EDT
I'm laughing my ass off at you guys.  Really.  
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:05:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
That's not at 7 ft.   More like 17 yards.   I don't think that's too bad unsupported on an empty stomach poor lighting and a dude shooting a braked SBR next to you. I can do better though.
View Quote


Always.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:05:53 PM EDT
Holy Christ. The safest place to be may be directly in front of you.  
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:06:15 PM EDT
Both groups are tolerable.  Are you asking on opinions between the two guns?   In general, I see a slightly better pattern with the right target.  I also see a more consistent general grouping towards the center of the HK target.  The relatively narrow vertical spread of the Glock targets tells me it's a trigger finger issue, or struggling to keep proper sight alignment.  Coupled with the few high but centerish shots, it could be a recoil management problem.  How well did the gun feel in your hand?  

Based on the two targets presented, I'd say buy the HK.  I'll bet you'll say the sights were better, the trigger was more consistent and the gun felt better in your hand.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:07:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.
View Quote

What we learned from the all day moa and grapefruit challenges is most people think they shoot better than the actually do. That is why you dont see people posting their targets. If you want to tighten your groups dryfire as much as you can.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:11:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By glocknick:

What we learned from the all day moa and grapefruit challenges is most people think they shoot better than the actually do. That is why you dont see people posting their targets. If you want to tighten your groups dryfire as much as you can.
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Originally Posted By glocknick:
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.

What we learned from the all day moa and grapefruit challenges is most people think they shoot better than the actually do. That is why you dont see people posting their targets. If you want to tighten your groups dryfire as much as you can.


I do.  You're only going to get but so much accuracy out of striker fired guns.  Plus the front sight completely obscuring the black.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:12:52 PM EDT
Straight up, I think you should practice more. With that said, I'm not much better. Ignore the rood comments we all have to start somewhere. But I would bet that is better than 50% of gun owners easily.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:13:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mike_314:
That's the problem.  

Go to a bullseye or IPSC match and see what some people who are good at it can do.
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Originally Posted By Mike_314:
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.
That's the problem.  

Go to a bullseye or IPSC match and see what some people who are good at it can do.

They are quite impressive and you can easily spot them at the range. Most targets i see at the range are similar to ops. I just wonder how many more rounds per week and how much dry firing i have to do to get to their level.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:14:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mclovinit:
Straight up, I think you should practice more. With that said, I'm not much better. Ignore the rood comments we all have to start somewhere. But I would bet that is better than 50% of gun owners easily.
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That's more like better than 87% of gun owners.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:15:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:


I do.  You're only going to get but so much accuracy out of striker fired guns.  Plus the front sight completely obscuring the black.
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By glocknick:
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.

What we learned from the all day moa and grapefruit challenges is most people think they shoot better than the actually do. That is why you dont see people posting their targets. If you want to tighten your groups dryfire as much as you can.


I do.  You're only going to get but so much accuracy out of striker fired guns.  Plus the front sight completely obscuring the black.

Maybe try using different targets next time. I use white paper plates with small orange target stickers in the center.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:15:17 PM EDT
That's probably better than the average of those at my club who participate in post-meeting shoots.

I'll see if I can pull up some of our targets for comparison.  Might be easier said than done, because we usually didn't note the distances.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:16:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By glocknick:

Maybe try using different targets next time. I use white paper plates with small orange target stickers in the center.
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Originally Posted By glocknick:
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By glocknick:
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.

What we learned from the all day moa and grapefruit challenges is most people think they shoot better than the actually do. That is why you dont see people posting their targets. If you want to tighten your groups dryfire as much as you can.


I do.  You're only going to get but so much accuracy out of striker fired guns.  Plus the front sight completely obscuring the black.

Maybe try using different targets next time. I use white paper plates with small orange target stickers in the center.


At that distance all you will see is the edges of the plate around the front sight.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:16:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 9:17:02 PM EDT by tnriverluver]
When I first got my permit and got into shooting pistols 25 years ago, the best way I learned to shoot was shooting very small targets.  Empty brass, match heads, nails, etc.  My son and I both got very good quickly.  Years later now that my eyesight has gone to shit I can't do much better than what you did.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:18:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
When I first got my permit and got into shooting pistols 25 years ago, the best way I learned to shoot was shooting very small targets.  Empty brass, match heads, nails, etc.  My son and I both got very good quickly.  Years later now that my eyesight has gone to shit I can't do much better than what you did.
View Quote


Yeah I'm getting to the age focusing on the front sight is getting challenging.  
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:21:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By VBC:


That's more like better than 87% of gun owners.
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By Mclovinit:
Straight up, I think you should practice more. With that said, I'm not much better. Ignore the rood comments we all have to start somewhere. But I would bet that is better than 50% of gun owners easily.


That's more like better than 87% of gun owners.


yup, it's eye opening at the public ranges I go to.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:21:37 PM EDT
Your groups are fine. It's your attitude that blows.

Why ask anything of GD, then get offended at the answers?
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:24:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 9:25:19 PM EDT by Pangea]
You shoot better than me. Your shots would certainly put a goblin down. I'd be real happy with that performance.

I never understood why people shoot a pistol at long distance before they can shoot it at close range well. (not aiming this at you OP).


Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:30:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CIE:
Your groups are fine. It's your attitude that blows.

Why ask anything of GD, then get offended at the answers?
View Quote

I think his thread illustrates an interesting point.  

For people who spout off that they can shoot one ragged hole all day at 100 yards when laughing at the shooting skills of others, Site Staff granted permission to establish a call out thread.

But, I'm not aware of any parallel thread for similar spray from pistoleros.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:31:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pangea:
You shoot better than me. Your shots would certainly put a goblin down. I'd be real happy with that performance.

I never understood why people shoot a pistol at long distance before they can shoot it at close range well. (not aiming this at you OP).


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If you can get so you can hit well at long range, short range will be a ragged hole.  It's all sight aligmnent and smooth trigger pull so you don't jerk or push the gun.  My finger rubs the frame on the Glock so I get some side push if I get lazy and don't hook my trigger finger.  It showed in the group.  I got a lttle excited on a few shots too.  

That's nowhere near my best shooting but representative of my typical shooting.  First target of the day.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:34:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.
View Quote

But you posted what you can do and that's better than the ones who only talk.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:36:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2016 9:39:47 PM EDT by WeimaranerDad]
Here is my target the other day with my new 686, 12 shots all shot double action, quite slow and deliberate at 10 paces:



I forgot to bring a screwdriver to adjust the rear sight up.

And then there is this video I did shooting steel targets at 8 yards:



I haven't shot much at say 15 yards or 25 yards.

EDIT: so I don't know what my targets would look like at 50 feet and with a faster pace.




Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:36:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:


I do.  You're only going to get but so much accuracy out of striker fired guns.  Plus the front sight completely obscuring the black.
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By glocknick:
Originally Posted By VBC:
I don't see many people shoot better than me at the range.  You all must be incredible.

What we learned from the all day moa and grapefruit challenges is most people think they shoot better than the actually do. That is why you dont see people posting their targets. If you want to tighten your groups dryfire as much as you can.


I do.  You're only going to get but so much accuracy out of striker fired guns.  Plus the front sight completely obscuring the black.


I'm far (very far) from an expert, but was exactly what I was told when I posted my targets from last weekend. I received some good advice on how to improve my shooting as well. Yes, even here in GD.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 9:37:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By VBC:


Yeah I'm getting to the age focusing on the front sight is getting challenging.  
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
When I first got my permit and got into shooting pistols 25 years ago, the best way I learned to shoot was shooting very small targets.  Empty brass, match heads, nails, etc.  My son and I both got very good quickly.  Years later now that my eyesight has gone to shit I can't do much better than what you did.


Yeah I'm getting to the age focusing on the front sight is getting challenging.  


Ain't that the truth.
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