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Posted: 9/11/2013 6:57:43 PM EDT
Have any of you guys noticed that some of the bullets loaded into Gold Dot cartridges are significantly shorter than others? I just noticed these two earlier. One was in the chamber, and the other caused a FTF off the top of the magazine. You'd think they'd use the same length bullets in all the ammo of the same caliber.

Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:01:07 PM EDT
Those are the special ones, they have better ballistics

Edit in all serious I wouldn't shoot those and I'd buy better quality
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:02:58 PM EDT
Not sure if serious.....

In case you are, that looks like bullet setback.  The bullet gets pushed back into the case. Do not fire them, they could cause a kaboom. Setback is common in 357 sig
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:03:28 PM EDT
It's called bullet set back.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:03:55 PM EDT
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Setback is common in 357 sig
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Why?


Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:04:05 PM EDT
That doesn't look right at all, are those straight out of the box or have they been chambered/rechambered?
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:04:17 PM EDT
I would call them and report the lot number. That's a pretty big QC failure.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:04:44 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It's called bullet set back.
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Will bet those are the top 2 rounds from the magazine.

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Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:04:46 PM EDT
Stress test rounds.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:05:04 PM EDT
Bullet setback.   My baby Glock does that sometimes and I toss them.  No bueno
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:05:18 PM EDT
It gives them a head start on the bad guy.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:05:37 PM EDT
my 45 auto Gold dots have set back after a few chamberings

so I pull them back with my puller and re sat them and gave em a bit more crimp


I think Speer uses almost no crimp


ETA: I know the bullet is held in place by neck tension
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:05:52 PM EDT
Do not use those rounds.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:08:21 PM EDT
I carry GD only in my self defense guns...I get them from our local sheriffs office by the 50/box.
I have actually measured each round with a caliper at each cleaning because I have been concerned with "re-chambering" and the possibility of a bullet being shoved a little further into the brass...

Never has been an issue.

Gold Dot, .40SW .165 grain.

Just my .03 cents...
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:08:34 PM EDT
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That doesn't look right at all, are those straight out of the box or have they been chambered/rechambered?
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One has been rechambered maybe 4 or 5 times. The other was straight out of the box to replace the setback one, I put it in the magazine, hit the slide release and it jammed on the bottom of the feed ramp. Locked the slide back, dropped the mag and that one was set back now too. So much for those reliably feeding bottle necked cartridges, eh?
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:13:00 PM EDT
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One has been rechambered maybe 4 or 5 times. The other was straight out of the box to replace the setback one, I put it in the magazine, hit the slide release and it jammed on the bottom of the feed ramp. Locked the slide back, dropped the mag and that one was set back now too. So much for those reliably feeding bottle necked cartridges, eh?
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Quoted:
That doesn't look right at all, are those straight out of the box or have they been chambered/rechambered?


One has been rechambered maybe 4 or 5 times. The other was straight out of the box to replace the setback one, I put it in the magazine, hit the slide release and it jammed on the bottom of the feed ramp. Locked the slide back, dropped the mag and that one was set back now too. So much for those reliably feeding bottle necked cartridges, eh?


I try never to chamber the same round more than twice, whenever I am administratively loading or unloading a pistol.

In fact this reminds me I need to get to the range soon to blow off a bunch of 9mm that's been cycled like that a few times.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:15:12 PM EDT
Use a hammer to knock them all to the same length.  I just saved you like $25.



ETA: In case you're a super tightwad, this post was a joke  My conscience wouldn't let me leave it without a disclaimer.

Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:15:58 PM EDT
Would not shoot that shit, buy that shit, or ever think about that shit ever again.


Why? Because it looks like shit to me.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:21:06 PM EDT

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Why?





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Quoted:



Quoted:



Setback is common in 357 sig




Why?







Because in the stupidity of the MFG, instead of headspacing the cartridge at the shoulder like a necked case SHOULD BE, they headspaced it at the mouth of the case like a regular handgun load. Therefor you cannot properly crimp the rounds, and they can be set further back into the case when loading a round that's not discharged. VERY common with guys loading the 1 round into the gun, then unloading it and putting it back at the top of the mag. Even had some kabooms from what I remember.



 
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:23:46 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Not sure if serious.....

In case you are, that looks like bullet setback.  The bullet gets pushed back into the case. Do not fire them, they could cause a kaboom. Setback is common in 357 sig
View Quote


This.


Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:24:18 PM EDT
Yeah you should never chamber the same round more than twice, as a general rule I'll leave the same round in the pipe from one range trip to the next, and fire anything that's been chambered even if I'm not shooting up my carry ammo.

I had a cop friend who had never heard of bullet setback bring me a pistol to look at for reliability issues and the top two rounds in the mag were set back to the point where the case was hanging up, very dangerous situation if he'd ever had to use his "duty ammo".

If the rounds are setting back like that in one chambering it's a bad neck tension issue.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:24:51 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Because in the stupidity of the MFG, instead of headspacing the cartridge at the shoulder like a necked case SHOULD BE, they headspaced it at the mouth of the case like a regular handgun load. Therefor you cannot properly crimp the rounds, and they can be set further back into the case when loading a round that's not discharged. VERY common with guys loading the 1 round into the gun, then unloading it and putting it back at the top of the mag. Even had some kabooms from what I remember.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Setback is common in 357 sig


Why?



Because in the stupidity of the MFG, instead of headspacing the cartridge at the shoulder like a necked case SHOULD BE, they headspaced it at the mouth of the case like a regular handgun load. Therefor you cannot properly crimp the rounds, and they can be set further back into the case when loading a round that's not discharged. VERY common with guys loading the 1 round into the gun, then unloading it and putting it back at the top of the mag. Even had some kabooms from what I remember.
 


Cool, learned something new (I don't have any experience with that caliber). Thanks.


Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:29:39 PM EDT
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Will bet those are the top 2 rounds from the magazine.

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It's called bullet set back.



Will bet those are the top 2 rounds from the magazine.

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+1

How many times have you chambered those OP?
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:34:36 PM EDT
I don't let the slide slam home on my carry rounds for this reason.  Ride it closed and rotate the rounds out if nothing else.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 8:01:29 PM EDT
lol 357sig.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 9:38:29 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I don't let the slide slam home on my carry rounds for this reason.  Ride it closed and rotate the rounds out if nothing else.
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The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 9:40:37 PM EDT
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Quoted:


The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't let the slide slam home on my carry rounds for this reason.  Ride it closed and rotate the rounds out if nothing else.


The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.


Hence the "I don't let the slide slam home".   Pull the slide back and gently let it forward.   If something hangs up, dump that round.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 9:44:47 PM EDT
Neck tension: how does it work?

The 357 Sig doesn't have a lot of neck to grip the bullet with, so it can be an issue if the constriction on the bullet itself is minimal.

This is why there is a 'special' 125ish grain bullet with a longer bearing surface made specifically for the 357 Sig and 115gr and even some 124gr bullets that are great for the 9mm Para shouldn't be used in the 357 Sig..

If you had a kinetic bullet puller, you might be able to 'fix' the short one, but I would put the shorter ones away, or give them to a reloader who can either fix them for you, or just pull them down, so a mistake doesn't happen.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 9:46:33 PM EDT
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 9:49:46 PM EDT
I've had issues with Gold Dots as well, I stopped buying them, and switched to Hornady Critical Defense
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 10:22:52 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Hence the "I don't let the slide slam home".   Pull the slide back and gently let it forward.   If something hangs up, dump that round.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't let the slide slam home on my carry rounds for this reason.  Ride it closed and rotate the rounds out if nothing else.


The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.


Hence the "I don't let the slide slam home".   Pull the slide back and gently let it forward.   If something hangs up, dump that round.


Well the slide slams home pretty hard when you're firing the thing, and hitting the slide release most closely replicates that force, so my concern was more along the lines of, "Will this gun even shoot?"
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 10:25:51 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint
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Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 1:55:45 AM EDT
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Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint


Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.


You carry a gun that you have never shot???
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 1:59:50 AM EDT
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Quoted:


You carry a gun that you have never shot???
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint


Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.


You carry a gun that you have never shot???


And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:09:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:11:19 AM EDT
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Hmmm, some foreign bottleneck ammo had punchmarks near the mouth to prevent setback, a forgotten process in the US evidently.
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That seems smart.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:24:28 AM EDT
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Hmmm, some foreign bottleneck ammo had punchmarks near the mouth to prevent setback, a forgotten process in the US evidently.
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Manufacturers probably would not find that process cost efficient.

Some lawyer may disagree and cause a change though.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:30:08 AM EDT
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And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint


Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.


You carry a gun that you have never shot???


And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.



ha, well worst case I guess you could use it as a blunt impact weapon...
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:41:25 AM EDT
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Do not use those rounds.
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This. Send those bullets back.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:44:44 AM EDT
You're about to discover why Glock is the industry leader* OP.










* explosives industry
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:44:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:47:37 AM EDT
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You're about to discover why Glock is the industry leader* OP.










* explosives industry
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Kind of tempted to put these setback rounds through the Glock 33 I'm about to buy to see if I can blow it up and add to the Glock legend. I just need to get someone else to shoot it...
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:49:18 AM EDT
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Quoted:



ha, well worst case I guess you could use it as a blunt impact weapon...
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint


Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.


You carry a gun that you have never shot???


And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.



ha, well worst case I guess you could use it as a blunt impact weapon...


I'm not sure if I could pistol whip a PCP-fueled criminal into submission
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:49:33 AM EDT

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And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

Bullet setback...



what pistol OP?



- Clint




Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.




You carry a gun that you have never shot???




And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.




 
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 2:54:42 AM EDT
Quoted:
Have any of you guys noticed that some of the bullets loaded into Gold Dot cartridges are significantly shorter than others? I just noticed these two earlier. One was in the chamber, and the other caused a FTF off the top of the magazine. You'd think they'd use the same length bullets in all the ammo of the same caliber.

<a href="http://s184.photobucket.com/user/Nebor/media/WP_20130911_014_zps0b44555d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x147/Nebor/WP_20130911_014_zps0b44555d.jpg</a>
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Two growers and one shower.  No big deal.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 3:01:11 AM EDT
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The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.
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Quoted:
I don't let the slide slam home on my carry rounds for this reason.  Ride it closed and rotate the rounds out if nothing else.


The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.


My guess is that when the second round jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, that is what pushed the bullet further into the case. I have seen that happen.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 3:09:23 AM EDT
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My guess is that when the second round jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, that is what pushed the bullet further into the case. I have seen that happen.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't let the slide slam home on my carry rounds for this reason.  Ride it closed and rotate the rounds out if nothing else.


The second round was normal when I pulled it out of the box. I put it on top of a magazine with the slide to the rear, hit the slide release and it jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, immediately setting the bullet back as badly as one that'd be chambered 4 or 5 times. Weird.


My guess is that when the second round jammed into the bottom of the feed ramp, that is what pushed the bullet further into the case. I have seen that happen.


Well... right. That's exactly what I was saying. I know that's what happened, because the round was normal when it jammed. I had just pulled it new out of the box to replace the first setback round. I am quite curious as to why a brand new gun would jam a bottleneck cartridge into the bottom of the feedramp and jam the slide when released via the slide release. The feed ramp was well lubricated too. Magazine fully seated.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 3:27:56 AM EDT
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And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint


Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.


You carry a gun that you have never shot???


And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.


Um... yeah.
You have bigger issues than bullet setback.
Link Posted: 9/12/2013 3:30:12 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Um... yeah.
You have bigger issues than bullet setback.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullet setback...

what pistol OP?

- Clint


Nothing fancy. A Sig 239 SAS Gen 2. I've actually never even shot it. Got it back in April as a CCW to run with. It's already got some rust on the trigger from sweat, and the hammer (I assumed it was a DAK like the Gen 1s when I bought it) occasionally leaves a raw spot on my 4 o'clock. Think I might ditch it for something better like a Glock 33, which would be my first Glock ever.


You carry a gun that you have never shot???


And it might have feeding issues. And kabooming ammo. I don't actually think I'll ever need it. I carry it in one of those pt-one belly band type rigs when I run the Katy Trail at 5am. There hasn't been a crime there in almost 18 months so it should be fine.


Um... yeah.
You have bigger issues than bullet setback.


Yeah the failure to feed is a little disturbing.
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