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Posted: 8/17/2017 9:05:35 PM EDT
I went to the range this past weekend and got some good practice in, but this has been bothering me.  Sometimes I like to spy on other people's targets during a lull to ceasefire to check how other people are doing.  I've seen some really amazingly tight groups and I've seen some targets that make me lose faith in humanity.

This past trip there was a group that brought a shotgun (with slugs) and an SKS that looked like they dragged it through a Tapco catalog and had a reflex sight on it.  At 50 yards and a metric f**k ton of ammo later,  I could see 2, maybe 3 shots on paper (they had one target 8-10" wide).  I saw dirt kick up 2 feet away, 6 feet away, and they even managed to hit the wood overhang a few times which prompted a quick response from the RO.  And no, they weren't doing mag dumps.  Fastest rate of fire allowed is one shot per one second.

How can anyone honestly be THAT bad?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:08:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Incompetence.

Also possibly:

Damaged crown.

Shot-out bore (I had a shot-out rifle that would keyhole as close as 5 yard with steel cased ammo).

Loose sights.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:11:09 PM EDT
[#2]
A lack of understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:11:18 PM EDT
[#3]
First time shooter? Learning the ropes?

Did you offer some help with their accuracy OP?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:11:43 PM EDT
[#4]
I've seen crap like that. People who can't hit a 3ft by 2ft piece of cardboard at 25 yards. Saw one guy with a rear mbus on a riser with a standard fsb. Rso schooled him but not after he put a few very high on the berm.  One dude put 5 in the dirt at the 300 yard line in front of the target, I bet he didn't know bullets are affected by gravity. Don't even get me.started on pistols. Most people can't shoot pistols.

Eta To be fair I had a scope come loose once. It never occurred to me to check.  Man that was annoying. I also once sucked badly at shooting. I'm still not that wonderful but trying...
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:12:47 PM EDT
[#5]
No training.

When I shot at a public range I explained to more than one person how to use their sights, if they asked me.

The first time I shot a pistol, I had no training but I bought a book and read it first.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:13:43 PM EDT
[#6]
On the other hand, I showed a guy a photo of a 3/4" 4 shot-group from a new BCM stainless 18" upper with KMR handguard, A5 buffer system and G2S.  First group ever at 100 yards with Black Hills Blue box 60 Gr Vmax  and 4.5-14 Mark 4.

I show him the photo and say something like, "It's a good start" and he's like "YOU MEAN THEY AREN'T ALL TOUCHING EACH OTHER WITH AN STAINLESS AR OFF A REST?"

Then he follows up with "I have a Win model 70 in .270 and maybe five years ago I got, I shit you not, a 1/2" 3 shot group with Hornady SST." and proceeds to explain that 3 shot groups are the total standard. That .270 is also his only centerfire rifle.

Seems harsh to me.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:14:13 PM EDT
[#7]
This was the best group I shot last Sunday.
Is it good enough?
















300M with a hooded aperture sight.
About 1.5moa.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:14:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Misread the title as "how can someone smell this badly"
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:14:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Maybe their seeing eye dog wasn't reading the wind correctly.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:15:41 PM EDT
[#10]
A guy I used to work with had just picked up a slug gun for deer season and wanted to tag along on a range trip that weekend. His shots were all over the place, at 50 yards. He wasn't well practiced with firearms (wife is typical huge Liberal, wasn't even allowed to keep that gun at home).

The scope mount was both backwards and not properly tight. A few minutes with an Allen wrench and it was fine. His accuracy improved greatly. He simply had no idea how to properly mount it when he put it on. 
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:16:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Well, I had a person next to me on the line in training firing handgun at the 15 yard line.

Kept seeing splashes in the gravel around the 7 yard line. I thought they were richocheta off of the berm... nope
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:17:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Hahahahahahahaha.......You haven't visited the latest police academy's have you??
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:18:35 PM EDT
[#13]
OP Are your sure it wasn't a Mini 14  
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:19:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Shooting left handed while being right eye dominant and not knowing will do it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:19:25 PM EDT
[#15]
They might have been working on something other than accuracy. When I'm working the bugs out of an unreliable or surplus rifle, I'll usually put several mags through it before zeroing just to test function / reliability. We're they shooting cheap steel case?

I've seen people trying to zero a loose optic and putting rounds anywhere except the target
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:19:37 PM EDT
[#16]
I have seen plenty of fuck ups.  People using red dots, but shooting at a reflection of the dot or a reflection of the diode because the battery was dead.  I have seen people react to recoil before pulling the trigger.  I have seen my daughter shoot with a loose front sight.  I have shot with the crosshairs broken in the tube.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:20:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Were they  antifa?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:20:34 PM EDT
[#18]
I thought about it, but could not honestly think of a good way to go about it without sounding stuck up.

They had issues with their tapco mag in the SKS and I asked if they needed any help, but they just looked at me and didn't say anything.  I assumed they didn't want any help from then and the derp began.  I'm always willing to help how I can if someone asks,  (hell, my buddy I usually shoot with is practically a traveling gunsmith and has performed rifle surgery on a number of different outings for people) but going over to someone always feels a bit presumptuous on my part.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:20:52 PM EDT
[#19]
NYPD?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:22:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This was the best group I shot last Sunday.
Is it good enough?
https://s22.postimg.org/rg0dcfds1/IMG_6441.jpg



















300M with a hooded aperture sight.
About 1.5moa.
https://s29.postimg.org/60box75yf/IMG_5857.jpg
View Quote
Meh....
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:22:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Last year I had a guy next to me shooting with his girlfriend or wife.
The guy was 6'2" about 220lbs in good shape.
She was about 5'3" 115lbs soaking wet.
They were both shooting the same 300 WinMag
He was flinching and whimpering like a little girl while she was putting together respectable groups.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:28:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They might have been working on something other than accuracy. When I'm working the bugs out of an unreliable or surplus rifle, I'll usually put several mags through it before zeroing just to test function / reliability. We're they shooting cheap steel case?

I've seen people trying to zero a loose optic and putting rounds anywhere except the target
View Quote
I kind of doubt it.  There was 3 or 4 of them (not sure now) and they just kept blasting away, shooting either the shotgun or the SKS depending on who wanted to do what and they weren't exactly taking their time with it.  It went on for quite a while and each gun operated just fine.  The "operators" however....

They were shooting steel yes, but even I put steel through my SKS and while i'm no snip0r, I will at least keep my shots on paper.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:29:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Meh....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This was the best group I shot last Sunday.
Is it good enough?
https://s22.postimg.org/rg0dcfds1/IMG_6441.jpg



















300M with a hooded aperture sight.
About 1.5moa.
https://s29.postimg.org/60box75yf/IMG_5857.jpg
Meh....
It's hard to see that target clearly at 300M.
The proper NRA SR-3 300M slow fire target has a 19" black aiming circle.
The x ring is 3"
The 10 ring is 7"
Those shots are all inside the 10 ring with 2 being in the x
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:31:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Stop judging people you bigot
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:33:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Last year I had a guy next to me shooting with his girlfriend or wife.
The guy was 6'2" about 220lbs in good shape.
She was about 5'3" 115lbs soaking wet.
They were both shooting the same 300 WinMag
He was flinching and whimpering like a little girl while she was putting together respectable groups.
View Quote
To be fair, he was probably trying to absorb all the recoil, while she being the smarter one, just went with it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:34:23 PM EDT
[#26]
My target looks shitty after dialing in a new scope.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:34:28 PM EDT
[#27]
I once watched a woman miss 6 out of 6 shots slow firing at a large paper grocery bag at 10 feet with her husband coaching her. I'm surprised by nothing that I see at public ranges,
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:36:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Blanks?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:45:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's hard to see that target clearly at 300M.
The proper NRA SR-3 300M slow fire target has a 19" black aiming circle.
The x ring is 3"
The 10 ring is 7"
Those shots are all inside the 10 ring with 2 being in the x
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This was the best group I shot last Sunday.
Is it good enough?
https://s22.postimg.org/rg0dcfds1/IMG_6441.jpg[BD



















300M with a hooded aperture sight.
About 1.5moa.
https://s29.postimg.org/60box75yf/IMG_5857.jpg
Meh....
It's hard to see that target clearly at 300M.
The proper NRA SR-3 300M slow fire target has a 19" black aiming circle.
The x ring is 3"
The 10 ring is 7"
Those shots are all inside the 10 ring with 2 being in the x
I know....I was being a dick in GD ????
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:48:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Watched a B-movie on Netflix last evening called 'Black Site Delta'.

Nobody had rear sights on their rifles, but they were making every shot they tried. 

The 'chief meaney' had no rear sight, then he did, then he didn't again. 
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:55:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Shooting left handed while being right eye dominant and not knowing will do it.
View Quote
Or vice versa. I had hell learning to shoot a long gun when I was young until someone told me to switch hands, it was like a miracle
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:55:44 PM EDT
[#32]
I was at an indoor rage a while back. I was all the way to the right, a group of kids (two boys and two girls, 20 - 24 maybe) came in and had the lane all the way to the left.  Truthfully, I wasn't even paying attention to them. During reloading times, I noticed that they were all having fun, that's about all the attention I gave them.  As I was packing up to go, I saw the fluorescent light tube five feet in front of their bench explode.  Glass rained down into their lane.  As I left, I looked over at their target.  They had been shooting for maybe twenty minutes.  The target was set at five yards.  There were maybe ten holes in the target. No group or anything, just ten random holes scattered across a full-sized silhouette.  They were shooting an AR of some kind.

I told the guy behind the counter about the shot-out light, and he just shook his head.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:56:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Stop judging people you bigot
View Quote
Is he judging the person, or their shooting?

I've never been that bad at shooting, but I can relate in other endeavors. I once went to a bar with some work friends. Despite my warnings, they refused to believe a person could be so horrible at karaoke. Well, one could blame the nausea on alcohol... No one at work doubted my word again. No doubt anyone but the fully deaf judged my singing to be horrible. But it was.

Point being that we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and when you notice that someone is spectacularly incompetent at something it isn't the same as demeaning them. He was nice enough not to say that he noticed the accuracy issues to them in person, and it is a bit funny.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:57:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Good shooting. Shitty shooting.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 10:21:45 PM EDT
[#35]
You were next to Stevie Wonder?
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 10:27:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Misread the title as "how can someone smell this badly"
View Quote
This is GD.
You had a 50/50 chance of nailing it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 10:48:46 PM EDT
[#37]
When I was doing my ccw shooting qual years ago there was a ratchet-ass black chick trying to earn hers as well. She had the glittery nails that went an inch beyond her fingertips, weave,... the works. She shows up with a fucking high point to shoot her qual. First they had to see everyone load their magazines while exhibiting safe handling practices. Then you had to demonstrate that you understood how to load the weapon, use the manual safety (if it had one) etc... finally you had to shoot the qual.

Right off the bad she clearly had no clue nor interest in how to operate that piece of shit. She couldn't load the magazines with her nails as they were so they helped her. They had to talk her through the pistol's various features even though we'd just sat through an entire fucking class on it. Finally, she shot the qual.

Every round she fired was with her eyes closed. Flinching all over the place. Scared out of her damn mind. The target was only about 5 yards away. Didn't hit it once. They let her shoot it again. Knicked the edge of the paper once. That's it. So they failed her out and refused to issue her certificate of completion.

The second she failed out she called somebody on her Obama phone and had a heated exchange about how she didn't pass and "I toll you foo! Ain't no way ize gonna pass dat, dammit! Come pick my ass up! I'm tire uh diss shit! I jess wanna go home, nigga!"

I was mesmerized. It could not have been more obvious to everyone present that she had zero interest in obtaining a ccw permit. Her felonious boyfriend was making her do it so he could make her hold his gun whenever they got pulled over. I was speechless that the range even let her try.

So, yeah, some people really are that bad at shooting.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:27:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
When I was doing my ccw shooting qual years ago there was a ratchet-ass

snip
View Quote
I had to look it up:
Failed To Load Title


I love learning new stuff.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:37:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Some people finch so hard it's amazing they even hit the ground.

I caught my cousin with a dummy one time, he pulled the trigger and flinched like he was about to get punched by Tyson. I should have been recording it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:41:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Bad eyesight
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#41]
There is an indoor range (I do not go to this range unless I just want to test a pistol I am working on, as it it close to where I live), where they have what I call a phone booth set up.  That is, you stand in what is like a phone booth with the front and back missing for your firing range.  If you go to the lane at the extreme left of right (with a wall on one side), you will see pistol shot mark literally one or two feet down range. As well as marks on the ceiling one or two feet down range.
And now you know why I almost never go to that range.
It boggles the mind, and keeps me up at night if I think about it too much.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:08:41 AM EDT
[#42]
"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Definitely would be a rifle behind each blade except no marksman. The average American can't shoot for shit and it will continue to get worse as the demonization of firearms increases.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:08:43 AM EDT
[#43]
After working a couple of years at a public range, yep, people will manage to shoot any and everything but their targets.
Some from inexperience, some incompetence and some just plain assholes.
Usually they are the people who bitch the loudest about a 1 shot per second rule also.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:11:11 AM EDT
[#44]
Most people can't shoot better than SHTF - the majority can't pull a tight group without a lead sled or other supporting device(s).
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:12:02 AM EDT
[#45]
i've been on both sides of that, OP. 

1) trying to "zero" a bubba'd no5 @ 100yrds (grandpa's old deer rifle, that he never actually hunted with).. my patterns were.... everywhere... then i realized the mount had shot itself loose. I had used the wrong loktite on the screws when reinstalling it. 

2) again at the 100yrd lane area. with my AR, equipped with mbus pro irons, shooting american eagle. the guy next to me had a scoped Remington with a ridiculously large scope on it. when he saw i had no optic and was shooting 4moa ammo, he kinda chuckled and continued setting up. I had put 6 little oval reactive paper targets on my bigger target to try 5shot groups. One live fire session later i had used three of the stick ons, small ish groups, my best being about 2.5, my worst about 4.5. he walked out during the cease fire he walked out to check his target... he would have gotten better groups out of a 12 gauge with buck.... he grumbled, and glanced over at mine... then packed up and left before the next live fire. 
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:20:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Baffle strikes can make you shoot that bad
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:21:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I went to the range this past weekend and got some good practice in, but this has been bothering me.  Sometimes I like to spy on other people's targets during a lull to ceasefire to check how other people are doing.  I've seen some really amazingly tight groups and I've seen some targets that make me lose faith in humanity.

This past trip there was a group that brought a shotgun (with slugs) and an SKS that looked like they dragged it through a Tapco catalog and had a reflex sight on it.  At 50 yards and a metric f**k ton of ammo later,  I could see 2, maybe 3 shots on paper (they had one target 8-10" wide).  I saw dirt kick up 2 feet away, 6 feet away, and they even managed to hit the wood overhang a few times which prompted a quick response from the RO.  And no, they weren't doing mag dumps.  Fastest rate of fire allowed is one shot per one second.

How can anyone honestly be THAT bad?
View Quote


Public ranges attract all kinds of authentically bad shooters.

Had a younger dude walk in with his M4 in his MARPAT bag with been there done that patches all over it proceed to be the singlehandedly worst shooter in history.

This was at an indoor range and he had the stock collapsed all the way and the rear sight folded down and made no move to correct this discrepancy, then wonder why he couldn't hit at maybe 20 yards and ended up shooting holes in the ceiling. (No idea where those rounds went, but they exited)

On roof hit number two I went over and asked to see his rifle, flipped the rear sight up and extended the buttstock to fit him and he, trying to get the gun into firing position, put the stock beneath his armpit, goobered around for a couple seconds, then couldn't figure out how to recollapse the stock, said he didn't like it that way, and muttered some other bullshit.

Another guy about a week ago at another indoor range I saw a guy who was, as a practiced matter of routine, would put his finger into the trigger guard of a Glock while hitting the slide release. He was a genuinely horrible shot, but had a good chuckle when he managed to get the slide to close and had the gun go off, thankfully downrange, but he wasn't ready and the slide bit his support hand.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:26:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Shooting shotgun slugs is not for the faint of heart.  The fierce blast and recoil makes people want to flinch.  On top of that, point of impact on a slug is easily changed by an inconsistent hold.  

It takes old man nerves of steel to shoot one accurately.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:27:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It's hard to see that target clearly at 300M.
The proper NRA SR-3 300M slow fire target has a 19" black aiming circle.
The x ring is 3"
The 10 ring is 7"
Those shots are all inside the 10 ring with 2 being in the x
View Quote
I think his post was in jest or invite him to the "1 MOA All Day Challenge" thread.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:30:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A lack of understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship?
View Quote
I'm going with this ^^^

Given how they were shooting all over, it doesn't sound like a problem with the firearms but with the shooters.
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