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Posted: 9/2/2015 9:34:13 PM EST
The Haka thread had me wondering how large of a military New Zealand has. I was shocked to see the NYPD is probably a more viable military force. Well not really, but the NYPD has more than 30,000 officers, maritime patrol capability, aerial capability, and an ESU (SWAT) that are armed to the teeth. New Zealand has less than a dozen ships in its Navy, and no fighter or attack aircraft in its Air Force. The Army has 4,300 full time troops and 1,800 reserves.

Now I get they are an island, so securing borders from a land invasion is not an issue, but you'd think there would be a larger Navy, and the Air Force would at least have a squadron capable of intercepting an aerial threat. I suppose the Aussies are no threat, but China is getting froggy and spending a lot to project power, and is hungry for natural resources.

I guess I was really blown away by this.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:36:03 PM EST
That's what they would like you to think.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:37:00 PM EST
You're welcome, NZ.
 



-American taxpayer
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:39:10 PM EST
So what part of that has you blown away? Good or bad?




Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:39:59 PM EST
Why have a military when the good ole U S of A will gladly defend your pansy ass?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:40:07 PM EST
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Quoted:
You're welcome, NZ.  

-American taxpayer
View Quote

This.

It's also why Great Britain, Australia, and about a dozen other countries can get away with pathetically small (but none the less brave) forces.

I mean Thailand .........really?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:40:53 PM EST
Because if shit jumps off they know they can depend on the US, UK, Canada, and so on to fight for them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:43:22 PM EST
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Quoted:
Why have a military when the good ole U S of A will gladly defend your pansy ass?
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I would love to do a combat deployment to NZ. Hot wimmenz, they speak my language and I could be the first kid on my block with a confirmed Orc kill.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:43:45 PM EST
NZ doesn't need a strong standing army since they have crack Hobbit commando squads hidden about the countryside...






Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:44:58 PM EST
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Quoted:
Why have a military when the good ole U S of A will gladly defend your pansy ass?
View Quote




...as you sit on the internet and make whiny beta comments about "militaristic imperialism"
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:45:12 PM EST
They mind there own business
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:47:06 PM EST
A nation with 1.2% of our population has an army 1.1% the size of ours?



The horror
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:47:10 PM EST
If the USA completely removed themselves from world politics then there would be small brush fire wars everwhere.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:47:20 PM EST
The USA subsidizes their military force so they can afford their socialist utopia just like most of our allies. this almost every progressive to screech about how high US military spending is compared to the rest of the world.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:49:29 PM EST
The USA subsidizes their military force so they can afford their socialist utopia just like most of our allies. this almost every progressive to screech about how high US military spending is compared to the rest of the world.
View Quote


Um wut?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:49:33 PM EST
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Quoted:
A nation with 1.2% of our population has an army 1.1% the size of ours?

The horror
View Quote


Ta Da!
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:50:03 PM EST
You do realize there are only about 4.4 million people in New Zealand, right?  The DFW Metroplex is like 6.9 million people.  That's right and New York City has like 8.4 million people.  So, yeah I expect the numbers to be a little lower than say, ours?  
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:51:02 PM EST
How about ireland ,10,000 troops & no fighter aircraft , depending on
the brits to bail their asses out while they sit on the fence .
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:51:24 PM EST
They mind their own business and thusly have fewer enemies?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:52:07 PM EST
New Zealand is about the size of Colorado and has a smaller GDP than Colorado's GSP.(Although New Zealand has more personnel than Colorado's ANG.) Of course they're going to have a miniscule military.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:53:37 PM EST
Considering New Zelands GDP ranks behind such economic super powers such as Kazakhstan, Portugual and Qatar. And that that the nearest potential enemy (Indonesia) is 4690 miles away. And said potential enemy has to get through Australian air and sea lanes to get there. And they are part of the British Commonwealth and the Anglosphere and would be defended by USA through SEATO. I guess they don't see the point?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:53:46 PM EST
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Quoted:
Why have a military when the good ole U S of A will gladly defend your pansy ass?
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:54:01 PM EST
The New Zealand GDP is 191 billion...

California's gross state product is 2.3 trillion.

ALABAMA's gross state product is greater than New Zealand's at $199 billion!

How large is Alabama's guard force?

New Zealand's population is only 4.5 million, Arizona is 6.5 million!
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:54:26 PM EST
In short - The defence intent for New Zealand for the last three decades has been maintenance of regional stability in our backyard. This explains the deployments to places like Solomon Islands and East Timor.
In the grade scheme of thing, the NZDF is designed to interface with the Australia Defence force (ADF) in the event of larger scale conflicts.

but you'd think there would be a larger Navy, and the Air Force would at least have a squadron capable of intercepting an aerial threat.
View Quote


I would agree that our Navy is probably slightly lacking given that we are a small island nation. There are changes happening with this, primarily the addition of a number of smaller offshore patrol vessels and a move away from larger frigates.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:54:33 PM EST
Island nation with no land borders, good relations with their closest neighbors, good defense treaty with the most powerful nation on Earth.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:54:47 PM EST
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Quoted:
You do realize there are only about 4.4 million people in New Zealand, right?  The DFW Metroplex is like 6.9 million people.  That's right and New York City has like 8.4 million people.  So, yeah I expect the numbers to be a little lower than say, ours?  
View Quote


Per captia we still have far more men under arms.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:56:38 PM EST
Their military headquarters.


Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:57:43 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


A nation with 1.2% of our population has an army 1.1% the size of ours?



The horror

View Quote
It doesn't work that way.

 
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:58:24 PM EST
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Quoted:
You're welcome, NZ.  

-American taxpayer
View Quote


this

why waste shit loads of money when they are under our wing.

sure we could leave them out to dry but lets say they had a military that had the same ratio as the US, it would still be small that an enemy that could attack it would overwhelm them anyways.

a small token force to send to some nato exercises perfect.

small wars between nations are over as any war one of the big guys is just itching to jump in.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:58:33 PM EST
I'm intrigued on how they maintain such a varied force with so few people.  Their smaller branches probably only have a few dozen people in them.
 



Who handles initial training and MOS specific?  Is it just OJT?




I wonder what their professional education system looks like.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:58:36 PM EST
They same reason people choose not to have guns.



They think it will never happen to them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 9:59:14 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If the USA completely removed themselves from world politics then there would be small brush fire wars everwhere.
View Quote
You are seeing the beginning of that now.

 
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:00:07 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They mind their own business and thusly have fewer enemies?
View Quote
It doesn't work that way.

 
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:00:54 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It doesn't work that way.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

A nation with 1.2% of our population has an army 1.1% the size of ours?



The horror

It doesn't work that way.  




 
Go on...
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:00:56 PM EST
Given their population and economies, Isn't it a common assessment that Kiwis and Aussies are both "punching above their weight" ?

Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:01:48 PM EST
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Quoted:
Why have a military when the good ole U S of A will gladly defend your pansy ass?
View Quote


I would think Zero would make them nervous as shit. Ukraine gave up its nukes with a promise of protection from Russia. How's that working out for Ukraine?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:05:19 PM EST
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Quoted:
Given their population and economies, Isn't it a common assessment that Kiwis and Aussies are both "punching above their weight" ?

View Quote


Thanks mate.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:05:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A nation with 1.2% of our population has an army 1.1% the size of ours?

The horror
View Quote


We also have a Marine Corps, National Guard, the most dominant Air Force and Navy in the world, nukes...

Like I said, with Zero in office, and how we abandoned Ukraine and Georgia, and backed down on missile defense in Eastern Europe, I'd be a little worried if my self defense plan was break glass and pull alarm, cross fingers that Uncle Sam comes to the rescue.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:06:09 PM EST
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Quoted:
Considering New Zelands GDP ranks behind such economic super powers such as Kazakhstan, Portugual and Qatar. And that that the nearest potential enemy (Indonesia) is 4690 miles away. And said potential enemy has to get through Australian air and sea lanes to get there. And they are part of the British Commonwealth and the Anglosphere and would be defended by USA through SEATO. I guess they don't see the point?
View Quote

The real question is why do they have a military at all. Fwiw about 1.5% of new Zealand died on the western front of the great war.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:06:21 PM EST
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Quoted:


I would think Zero would make them nervous as shit. Ukraine gave up its nukes with a promise of protection from Russia. How's that working out for Ukraine?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why have a military when the good ole U S of A will gladly defend your pansy ass?


I would think Zero would make them nervous as shit. Ukraine gave up its nukes with a promise of protection from Russia. How's that working out for Ukraine?


Why would they be nervous? No one gives a shit about New Zealand, New Zealand is Australia's Canada.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:06:45 PM EST
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Quoted:
Given their population and economies, Isn't it a common assessment that Kiwis and Aussies are both "punching above their weight" ?

View Quote



They are.  And I would love to visit...unlike any Western Europe allies.



Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:08:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In short - The defence intent for New Zealand for the last three decades has been maintenance of regional stability in our backyard. This explains the deployments to places like Solomon Islands and East Timor.
In the grade scheme of thing, the NZDF is designed to interface with the Australia Defence force (ADF) in the event of larger scale conflicts.



I would agree that our Navy is probably slightly lacking given that we are a small island nation. There are changes happening with this, primarily the addition of a number of smaller offshore patrol vessels and a move away from larger frigates.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In short - The defence intent for New Zealand for the last three decades has been maintenance of regional stability in our backyard. This explains the deployments to places like Solomon Islands and East Timor.
In the grade scheme of thing, the NZDF is designed to interface with the Australia Defence force (ADF) in the event of larger scale conflicts.

but you'd think there would be a larger Navy, and the Air Force would at least have a squadron capable of intercepting an aerial threat.


I would agree that our Navy is probably slightly lacking given that we are a small island nation. There are changes happening with this, primarily the addition of a number of smaller offshore patrol vessels and a move away from larger frigates.


That makes sense on the Navy, but no credible Air Force?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:11:21 PM EST
The Haka thread is the best argument I can see for not bothering New Zealand.

They're martial enough in spirit when they're dead. I would not want to be on their bad side when they're alive.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:12:21 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We also have a Marine Corps, National Guard, the most dominant Air Force and Navy in the world, nukes...



Like I said, with Zero in office, and how we abandoned Ukraine and Georgia, and backed down on missile defense in Eastern Europe, I'd be a little worried if my self defense plan was break glass and pull alarm, cross fingers that Uncle Sam comes to the rescue.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

A nation with 1.2% of our population has an army 1.1% the size of ours?



The horror





We also have a Marine Corps, National Guard, the most dominant Air Force and Navy in the world, nukes...



Like I said, with Zero in office, and how we abandoned Ukraine and Georgia, and backed down on missile defense in Eastern Europe, I'd be a little worried if my self defense plan was break glass and pull alarm, cross fingers that Uncle Sam comes to the rescue.




 
My statement is accurate and compares armies.  If you want to compare total active military, the ratios are similar.




Who do you think New Zealand has a defense plan against?  Will spending a bunch of money to increase the size of their mil affect the plan?




Does NZ need to go toe to toe against the PLA?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:13:00 PM EST
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Quoted:


That makes sense on the Navy, but no credible Air Force?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
In short - The defence intent for New Zealand for the last three decades has been maintenance of regional stability in our backyard. This explains the deployments to places like Solomon Islands and East Timor.
In the grade scheme of thing, the NZDF is designed to interface with the Australia Defence force (ADF) in the event of larger scale conflicts.

but you'd think there would be a larger Navy, and the Air Force would at least have a squadron capable of intercepting an aerial threat.


I would agree that our Navy is probably slightly lacking given that we are a small island nation. There are changes happening with this, primarily the addition of a number of smaller offshore patrol vessels and a move away from larger frigates.


That makes sense on the Navy, but no credible Air Force?


There have been a few discussions about whether we need a fighter wing for our airforce.
I think it comes down to practicality of maintaining aircraft versus the actual assessed threat. There are probably better things they can spend the defence budget on, such as smaller patrol vessels which fill a multitude of roles.

We do have a number of pilots who serve on secondment to the RAAF and USAF.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:13:17 PM EST
Quoted:
The Haka thread had me wondering how large of a military New Zealand has. I was shocked to see the NYPD is probably a more viable military force. Well not really, but the NYPD has more than 30,000 officers, maritime patrol capability, aerial capability, and an ESU (SWAT) that are armed to the teeth. New Zealand has less than a dozen ships in its Navy, and no fighter or attack aircraft in its Air Force. The Army has 4,300 full time troops and 1,800 reserves.

Now I get they are an island, so securing borders from a land invasion is not an issue, but you'd think there would be a larger Navy, and the Air Force would at least have a squadron capable of intercepting an aerial threat. I suppose the Aussies are no threat, but China is getting froggy and spending a lot to project power, and is hungry for natural resources.

I guess I was really blown away by this.
View Quote



Are you serous or just bored?

What do you think would happen if China attacked New Zealand? Not that they would. Why would they? They have a huge land mass with huge amounts of natural resources. But hey, maybe they are tired of fucking Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies and want to take it over to stop Peter Jackson.

So - China attacks New Zealand, then what? Who do you think would possibly get involved? Mmm The UK and Australia for starters? India might get in on that action through treaties. If the UK is in on it, the US can't be too far behind.

Yeah - see, and that there is why all of these countries can spend their money on health care instead of tanks and planes. Because if the shit goes down they know the US will swoop in because of treaties. Our defense budget is monstrous compared to our allies. They should be paying us protection money.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:13:24 PM EST
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Quoted:
I'm intrigued on how they maintain such a varied force with so few people.  Their smaller branches probably only have a few dozen people in them.  

Who handles initial training and MOS specific?  Is it just OJT?


I wonder what their professional education system looks like.
View Quote


Not too bad really. Think of the effect small classes have on schools. (in small schools)
Sure they don't have the the toys that the big schools have, but what they do have is a lot of individual attention and the do the basics really well.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:14:08 PM EST
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Quoted:
The Haka thread is the best argument I can see for not bothering New Zealand.

They're martial enough in spirit when they're dead. I would not want to be on their bad side when they're alive.
View Quote


I suppose if you equip them all with jet packs they could defend their air space...
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:15:18 PM EST
New Zealand has SAS and they know the color of the boathouse in Hereford (which is really in Poole, but I digress) so they trump the NYPD.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:16:08 PM EST

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Quoted:
Not too bad really. Think of the effect small classes have on schools. (in small schools)

Sure they don't have the the toys that the big schools have, but what they do have is a lot of individual attention and the do the basics really well.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

I'm intrigued on how they maintain such a varied force with so few people.  Their smaller branches probably only have a few dozen people in them.  



Who handles initial training and MOS specific?  Is it just OJT?





I wonder what their professional education system looks like.





Not too bad really. Think of the effect small classes have on schools. (in small schools)

Sure they don't have the the toys that the big schools have, but what they do have is a lot of individual attention and the do the basics really well.




 
I see.  Does the schoolhouse maintain permanent instructors?  Do officers attend Sandhurst?
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:17:02 PM EST
New Zealand has actively participated in both World Wars, Korea, and was there in Iraq. For a country with a smaller population and economy than Arizona I take my hat off to them. They may be small but that participate and they fight.
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