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Posted: 8/28/2015 6:22:47 PM EDT
Very serious.

One of my friends with relatively little firearm experience is convinced that on average the AK has good accuracy overall and that the 'accuracy thing is a myth' regarding AKs.

Yet for me, I don't know a single person that I've met that has had a AK that performs better than 3" at 100yds, Most tell me they're in the 3"-5" range. I realize alot of this can do with shooting style, yet even for me, my yugo AK with Golden Tiger (Which I'm told is the best stuff you can find outside of M43) is still a 3"-4" gun at 100yds AT BEST. Most of what I see is 5" and that puts the AK n the range of a mini-14 in terms of accuracy. Not that the gun is totally unusable, but beyond 300 yards I wouldn't hope to hit much of anything, especially in a life or death scenario.

Meanwhile every.single.AR. I've had does better than 2" at 100yds, most of the time from a prone position I can do 1.5" or even a little better, with a scope it's even better.

So, am I correct in what I'm seeing with AK trashcan accuracy or totally wrong?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:26:10 PM EDT
3-5MOA

Much Halal.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:26:26 PM EDT
With an AK, You couldn't hit the side of a barn even if you were standing inside of it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:28:50 PM EDT
Within normal engagement distance its adaquete
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:28:55 PM EDT
Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if you had the muzzle pressed against the wall.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:29:09 PM EDT
Good enough to do the jobs for which it was designed... parade duty, third-world depopulation, unarmed dissident shooting, and occupying infantry conscripts' hands so they can't break as much stuff.

Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:29:54 PM EDT
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Quoted:
With an AK, You couldn't hit the side of a barn even if you were standing inside of it.
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with the door closed
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:31:36 PM EDT
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Quoted:

with the door closed
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Quoted:
Quoted:
With an AK, You couldn't hit the side of a barn even if you were standing inside of it.

with the door closed


The guy holding the ak would be too distracted by the goats in the barn.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:32:18 PM EDT
It'll probably blow up in your hands first.

Russian=crap.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:32:19 PM EDT
They really are pretty much junk.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:32:31 PM EDT
Even at 6 MOA, that's a hit on a man-sized torso at 200+ yards.



They are not and were never really intended to be precision instruments.




I'd be curious to know how your friend defines "good accuracy overall".
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:33:50 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Within normal engagement distance its adaquete
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WW2 distances? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:33:55 PM EDT
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:35:11 PM EDT
in Soviet Russia, AK47 shoots you.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:35:12 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Even at 6 MOA, that's a hit on a man-sized torso at 200+ yards.

They are not and were never really intended to be precision instruments.


I'd be curious to know how your friend defines "good accuracy overall".
View Quote



I guess he hasn't defined it properly, but for me and another friend, we defined accuracy as hitting a torso sized target at 300yds. Both of us felt quite confident with our ARs we could do it without much of a thought, both of us also own AKs and do not feel confident that we would be able to do it should the need arise without multiple follow up shots.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:37:14 PM EDT
Gotta be worst than a  Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK.  

and yes the guy could shoot.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:38:26 PM EDT
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Quoted:



WW2 distances? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Within normal engagement distance its adaquete



WW2 distances? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?


Average  rifle engagement distances during those various conflicts probably aren't nearly as disparate as a lot folks think.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:39:35 PM EDT
Depends on which make, and what ammo you're using.

Eastern European and Russian stamped guns, about 4 MOA average.

Billet receiver with East German or Finnish Defense Forces ammo, 2 MOA or less.

This isn't based on what I read on the internet, but years of shooting them dating back to 1990's.  

Valmet Rk62 and SAKO Rk 92 or 95 are extremely accurate guns, but are not really AK's when you look at how they're made.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:40:04 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.
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No.


AKs I've shot off the bench were pie-dish accurate at 100 yards.   A bit worse than my old Mini-14 trunk gun.

My off the shelf ARs shoot business-card sized groups of ten.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:42:19 PM EDT
Honestly, with those pitiful sights, the intrinsic accuracy of the AK doesn't matter a whole lot.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:42:39 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Depends on which make, and what ammo you're using.

Eastern European and Russian stamped guns, about 4 MOA average.

Billet receiver with East German or Finnish Defense Forces ammo, 2 MOA or less.

Valmet Rk62 and SAKO Rk 92 or 95 are extremely accurate guns, but are not really AK's when you look at how they're made.
View Quote



This....
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:42:46 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Depends on which make, and what ammo you're using.

Eastern European and Russian stamped guns, about 4 MOA average.

Billet receiver with East German or Finnish Defense Forces ammo, 2 MOA or less.

This isn't based on what I read on the internet, but years of shooting them dating back to 1990's.  

Valmet Rk62 and SAKO Rk 92 or 95 are extremely accurate guns, but are not really AK's when you look at how they're made.
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Quoted:
Depends on which make, and what ammo you're using.

Eastern European and Russian stamped guns, about 4 MOA average.

Billet receiver with East German or Finnish Defense Forces ammo, 2 MOA or less.

This isn't based on what I read on the internet, but years of shooting them dating back to 1990's.  

Valmet Rk62 and SAKO Rk 92 or 95 are extremely accurate guns, but are not really AK's when you look at how they're made.


Those are different beasts than the typical AK pattern. I'm specifically talking about AK47s and AK47M styles.

Quoted:
Quoted:
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.



No.


AKs I've shot off the bench were pie-dish accurate at 100 yards.   A bit worse than my old Mini-14 trunk gun.

My off the shelf ARs shoot business-card sized groups of ten.



So far I have yet to shoot an AR that groups worse than 2" from a benchrest with any kind of ammo
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:43:25 PM EDT
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Quoted:
in Soviet Russia, AK47 shoots you.
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What about Romania?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:44:15 PM EDT
It should be good for minute of trashcan accuracy.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:45:26 PM EDT
In my experience, AKs are *way* more accurate than a Mini-14 or Mini-30.  
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:45:53 PM EDT
With a WASR and tula ammo I get 8 MOA at 100yds. I'd love to try some different ammo in it but beer money comes first.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:46:31 PM EDT
There are a lot of dead soldiers, Marines, and sailors who would probably disagree with the know it all's who think it couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:51:07 PM EDT
Good enough for the Red Army.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:51:44 PM EDT
from my experience with my 6 ars and 2 aks i get about .5 moa-2 moa with my ars and 3-5 moa with my aks. if your friend is after accuracy tell him to build an ar. you can buy a larue or rainier barrel and you will have a sub moa gun. it has never been cheaper to build an ar.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:51:47 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.
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I can ring 6" steel at 200 yards with every shot from my basic BCM midlength using surplus ammo. Not so much with any of my AKs.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:53:46 PM EDT
I'd take a full auto AK.  Semi, meh.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:55:49 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.
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That's been my experience, at least with iron sights. Then again I was never  as "sight sensitive" as some here seem to be.

In fact I was really surprised at how accurate my AK-74 (older OH Ord. build) is....And I have old eyes.




Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:56:33 PM EDT
I think it was Fortier who was embedded with some Army or Marine unit in Iraq.  He wrote an article for one of those periodicals like Book of the AK.

While embedded with this unit, they were able to recover some of hadji's AK ammo.

They did a cross section of the bullet.  Its steel or tungsten penetrator was off center.  So I would imagine the bullet once it was spun up, during its flight wobbled a lot.  Imagine a clothes washer with a load out if balance or if your car tire were to throw off one of its wheel weights.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:58:39 PM EDT
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Quoted:



WW2 distances? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Within normal engagement distance its adaquete



WW2 distances? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?

More likely encounter riot control or looters out to 50yd
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:59:19 PM EDT
Polish underfolder kit from Sportsman Guide built on a homemade receiver.









Prone at 100 yards.











Wolf ammo














Yugo ammo














German ammo
































 
 
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:59:34 PM EDT
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Quoted:


That's been my experience, at least with iron sights. Then again I was never  as "sight sensitive" as some here seem to be.

In fact I was really surprised at how accurate my AK-74 (older OH Ord. build) is....And I have old eyes.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/34j9c9w.jpg

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2zs31bd.jpg
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.


That's been my experience, at least with iron sights. Then again I was never  as "sight sensitive" as some here seem to be.

In fact I was really surprised at how accurate my AK-74 (older OH Ord. build) is....And I have old eyes.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/34j9c9w.jpg

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2zs31bd.jpg



For the most part I was talking about AK47s and Aks using 7.62x39 not 5.45x39, the 5.45 guns seem to do much better overall than those chambered in 7.62x39.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 6:59:58 PM EDT
My Krebs -74 was a pleasure to shoot and actually shot pretty well... for an AK. 2" groups at 100.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:00:55 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I think it was Fortier who was embedded with some Army or Marine unit in Iraq.  He wrote an article for one of those periodicals like Book of the AK.

While embedded with this unit, they were able to recover some of hadji's AK ammo.

They did a cross section of the bullet.  Its steel or tungsten penetrator was off center.  So I would imagine the bullet once it was spun up, during its flight wobbled a lot.  Imagine a clothes washer with a load out if balance or if your car tire were to throw off one of its wheel weights.
View Quote

Home made, not factory produced
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:01:12 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I think it was Fortier who was embedded with some Army or Marine unit in Iraq.  He wrote an article for one of those periodicals like Book of the AK.

While embedded with this unit, they were able to recover some of hadji's AK ammo.

They did a cross section of the bullet.  Its steel or tungsten penetrator was off center.  So I would imagine the bullet once it was spun up, during its flight wobbled a lot.  Imagine a clothes washer with a load out if balance or if your car tire were to throw off one of its wheel weights.
View Quote


You can see that in one of Larry Vickers recent AK-74 vids.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:01:43 PM EDT
its a bullet hose. how accurate does it need to be?
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:01:50 PM EDT
Will it make one jagged hole at 100 yards like everyone with an AR says theirs does? No. But, it will hit a man size target at distance just fine.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:03:43 PM EDT


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I guess he hasn't defined it properly, but for me and another friend, we defined accuracy as hitting a torso sized target at 300yds. Both of us felt quite confident with our ARs we could do it without much of a thought, both of us also own AKs and do not feel confident that we would be able to do it should the need arise without multiple follow up shots.
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Quoted:





Quoted:


Even at 6 MOA, that's a hit on a man-sized torso at 200+ yards.





They are not and were never really intended to be precision instruments.
I'd be curious to know how your friend defines "good accuracy overall".





I guess he hasn't defined it properly, but for me and another friend, we defined accuracy as hitting a torso sized target at 300yds. Both of us felt quite confident with our ARs we could do it without much of a thought, both of us also own AKs and do not feel confident that we would be able to do it should the need arise without multiple follow up shots.





 
You know what to do.







Gather your friends and get to a 300 yard range.







Walk your talk, buddy!


 



ETA - no personal experience with the AK-74, but I'm under the impression that the -74 is more accurate than the -47.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:04:09 PM EDT
I was able to do this at around 80 yards. I was using an adjustable peep sight in the stock location.



ETA: Group probably started to open up when it started to heat up, this was a 20 round rapid fire group, more or less. I think I was using Silver Bear soft points, too.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:06:44 PM EDT
Quoted:
Very serious.

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You're posting in the wrong place.
Try the AK forum.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:11:50 PM EDT
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Quoted:



For the most part I was talking about AK47s and Aks using 7.62x39 not 5.45x39, the 5.45 guns seem to do much better overall than those chambered in 7.62x39.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same accuracy as an off the rack AR really.  They're pretty good for what they are.


That's been my experience, at least with iron sights. Then again I was never  as "sight sensitive" as some here seem to be.

In fact I was really surprised at how accurate my AK-74 (older OH Ord. build) is....And I have old eyes.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/34j9c9w.jpg

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2zs31bd.jpg



For the most part I was talking about AK47s and Aks using 7.62x39 not 5.45x39, the 5.45 guns seem to do much better overall than those chambered in 7.62x39.


Build quality is everything. In my experience AKs are sort of like optics, you get what you pay for.

My milled SA-M7 Arsenal in 7.62 X 39 is just as accurate as the '74.



I have a WASR 10/63 under-folder that is of the 3 MOA variety. Fun as all get out though, that's why I still have it.


Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:12:06 PM EDT
1. Depends on the AK. They aren't all the same, anymore than AR platform rifles are.
2. Most commercial AK ammo isn't the best stuff in the world.
3. AK sights suck ass compared to the AR.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:12:15 PM EDT
i can't comment on the difference in mechanical accuracy between the AR and AK--i just don't have the numbers.  but i will tell you the following with absolutely no hesitation:

take your friend out to the country with an AR and an AK.  don't mess with KD or groups--just pick out targets (stumps, cans, bright-colored rocks) at random, and have him try to hit them with the AK.

then hand him an AR with irons, and you will watch his hit rate improve dramatically.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:13:05 PM EDT
If you can see him well enough to know you need to shoot him, you can hit him every time with an AK. I believe that expecting 5" @ 100m mechanical accuracy  with assorted ammuniton is fair.

74s are a bit better, accuracy wise. Many eastern optics for the 74 and 100 series guns recommend a 400m zero.

Personally, I have seen 2 to 5" with 7.62 and 1.5 to 4" with 5.45.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:13:11 PM EDT
Most AK's are 2-3 MOA guns with good quality ammo and a good shooter.
Some are 1-2 MOA with handloads and a excellent trigger puller.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:14:17 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Valmet Rk62 and SAKO Rk 92 or 95 are extremely accurate guns, but are not really AK's when you look at how they're made.
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Just how accurate? I had someone tell me he did 1 MOA with his issued Rk (think it was a 95). I find that hard to believe for 7.62x39.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 7:15:11 PM EDT
Garbage gun is garbage.
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