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Posted: 12/13/2013 3:02:17 PM EST
Or has Zerocare, Obamacide, Obamacare or what ever is should be called precluded that? I mean can you buy a policy unfettered by Zerocare or has the ACA done away with all free choice? Oh, on the subject of free choice, the progressives want free choice for abortion, abortion on demand, birthcontrol on demand, how then am I and everyone else told they have no choice in what insurance they get or what coverage they get no matter their needs?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:03:43 PM EST
From what I understand, it's now illegal for an insurance company to sell a "non obamacare" policy.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:04:46 PM EST
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:06:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?
View Quote


This.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:14:48 PM EST
I may be wrong, but as I understand it, the only way the IRS can levy the fine for non Obamacare insurance is through with-holding your tax refunds.

Jerry Doyle has mentioned the possibility of paying the fine, (tax), avoiding Obamacare insurance plans, and buying a catastrophic type insurance plan. Comes out cheaper than buying an Obamacare approved plan.

For me, the headache would be in avoiding overpaying the IRS. Yes, I have been trying, but it is not always easy, and those people are not always easy to deal with. (Though, to their credit, I think that they are fair, under the regulations that they have to work with).

Not a problem I have to contend with for the next year, but who knows what 2015 will bring?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:15:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Thumbtack:


This.
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Originally Posted By Thumbtack:
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?


This.


Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:17:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?
View Quote

Have you forgotten that the penalty is a tax? Not paying your taxes puts you crosswise of the IRS.

You don't fuck with the IRS.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:17:55 PM EST
The amount of venom and misunderstanding is extreme in the post.

First off, an individual can't buy a group policy. You buy an individual policy if you are not eligible for a group policy through work or other connection. Second, you do not have to buy an individual policy through the healthcare exchanges. You only need the exchange to coordinate any subsidy qualification. You can buy an individual policy through any number or insurers or agencies.

To those that would prefer to shove fingers up asses: a simple question. What are you going to do once you remove these fingers and actually need medical treatment????? Through all your finger insertions, you still end up with no medical coverage. I'm not talking about a trip to the doctor for the flu that might cost a hundred bucks. I'm talking about what you are going to do when you are diagnosed with cancer and it will take one million dollars to save your life. What are you going to do then???????
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:21:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RCK1999:

To those that would prefer to shove fingers up asses: a simple question. What are you going to do once you remove these fingers and actually need medical treatment????? Through all your finger insertions, you still end up with no medical coverage. I'm not talking about a trip to the doctor for the flu that might cost a hundred bucks. I'm talking about what you are going to do when you are diagnosed with cancer and it will take one million dollars to save your life. What are you going to do then???????
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Pay for it and not leech off the hard work of others.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:21:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Have you forgotten that the penalty is a tax? Not paying your taxes puts you crosswise of the IRS.

You don't fuck with the IRS.
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Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?

Have you forgotten that the penalty is a tax? Not paying your taxes puts you crosswise of the IRS.

You don't fuck with the IRS.



I'm fine with it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:25:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RCK1999:
The amount of venom and misunderstanding is extreme in the post.

First off, an individual can't buy a group policy. You buy an individual policy if you are not eligible for a group policy through work or other connection. Second, you do not have to buy an individual policy through the healthcare exchanges. You only need the exchange to coordinate any subsidy qualification. You can buy an individual policy through any number or insurers or agencies.

To those that would prefer to shove fingers up asses: a simple question. What are you going to do once you remove these fingers and actually need medical treatment????? Through all your finger insertions, you still end up with no medical coverage. I'm not talking about a trip to the doctor for the flu that might cost a hundred bucks. I'm talking about what you are going to do when you are diagnosed with cancer and it will take one million dollars to save your life. What are you going to do then???????
View Quote


That is where the catastrophic coverage comes in.

I am a 57 year old bachelor. I don't need maternity coverage or birth control. I don't want to pay for such. If I get the flu, I treat it with aspirin and whiskey., (maybe whisky, if I am feeling flush). Yes, I took the flu shot, and I paid cash for it.

A million dollar health bill would inconvenience me, but I would pay it.

A Gov't trying to manage my life will cost me way more than a million dollars.


Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:26:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RCK1999:
The amount of venom and misunderstanding is extreme in the post.

First off, an individual can't buy a group policy. You buy an individual policy if you are not eligible for a group policy through work or other connection. Second, you do not have to buy an individual policy through the healthcare exchanges. You only need the exchange to coordinate any subsidy qualification. You can buy an individual policy through any number or insurers or agencies.

To those that would prefer to shove fingers up asses: a simple question. What are you going to do once you remove these fingers and actually need medical treatment????? Through all your finger insertions, you still end up with no medical coverage. I'm not talking about a trip to the doctor for the flu that might cost a hundred bucks. I'm talking about what you are going to do when you are diagnosed with cancer and it will take one million dollars to save your life. What are you going to do then???????
View Quote

I didn't say buy a group policy, I said buy into a group policy which would be the situation if several parties got together to set up a group policy. The reason I asked about a group policy is that if allowed, wouldn't that increase the chances of of discount on premiums, on the deductible? My question stands, does Zerocare preclude the the buying of policies that are not tied to Zerocare? that are actually affordable?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:29:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Or has Zerocare, Obamacide, Obamacare or what ever is should be called precluded that? I mean can you buy a policy unfettered by Zerocare or has the ACA done away with all free choice? Oh, on the subject of free choice, the progressives want free choice for abortion, abortion on demand, birthcontrol on demand, how then am I and everyone else told they have no choice in what insurance they get or what coverage they get no matter their needs?
View Quote

"Mandatory coverage" is the problem here.


Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:30:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:

My question stands, does Zerocare preclude the the buying of policies that are not tied to Zerocare? that are actually affordable?
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Yes, because of mandates, which then makes them unaffordable.

This isn't a matter of "All policies are now oblamacare"

This is a matter of "BigDaddyGov now requires ALL policies to:"
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:46:39 PM EST
pay the fine and buy the plan of choice . much cheaper,,,,,,
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:52:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katrina24:
pay the fine and buy the plan of choice . much cheaper,,,,,,
View Quote


This may be the response which kills Obamacare.

Or, at least I hope so.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:06:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:



I'm fine with it.
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Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?

Have you forgotten that the penalty is a tax? Not paying your taxes puts you crosswise of the IRS.

You don't fuck with the IRS.



I'm fine with it.


Same here. I don't know why everyone is worried, just say no and do nothing. It'll fall on its own if no one complies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:12:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grendelbane:


This may be the response which kills Obamacare.

Or, at least I hope so.
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
pay the fine and buy the plan of choice . much cheaper,,,,,,


This may be the response which kills Obamacare.

Or, at least I hope so.



Umm, once we get through some of the 2014 old policy extension issues, if you buy a policy you DON'T pay a fine (aka: tax). That is part of the ACA.

For those that will pay the fine and NOT carry any coverage (and don't have a million bucks to cover a catostraphic illness), what will you do????

Here is the answer: you will go to the hospital and receive that million $$ in treatment even if you can't pay. You know why: because that is what we do. Every single taxpayer will help pay for your life-saving treatment. You can just thank me now!
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:13:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 4:13:46 PM EST by sswfnhtu520]
It's now illegal for an insurance company
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:16:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sswfnhtu520:
It's now illegal for an insurance companyhttp://goo.gl/Z3g1EF
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WUT
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:18:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RCK1999:



Umm, once we get through some of the 2014 old policy extension issues, if you buy a policy you DON'T pay a fine (aka: tax). That is part of the ACA.

For those that will pay the fine and NOT carry any coverage (and don't have a million bucks to cover a catostraphic illness), what will you do????

Here is the answer: you will go to the hospital and receive that million $$ in treatment even if you can't pay. You know why: because that is what we do. Every single taxpayer will help pay for your life-saving treatment. You can just thank me now!
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
pay the fine and buy the plan of choice . much cheaper,,,,,,


This may be the response which kills Obamacare.

Or, at least I hope so.



Umm, once we get through some of the 2014 old policy extension issues, if you buy a policy you DON'T pay a fine (aka: tax). That is part of the ACA.

For those that will pay the fine and NOT carry any coverage (and don't have a million bucks to cover a catostraphic illness), what will you do????

Here is the answer: you will go to the hospital and receive that million $$ in treatment even if you can't pay. You know why: because that is what we do. Every single taxpayer will help pay for your life-saving treatment. You can just thank me now!


I understand what you are saying. I also understand that what is going on is preparatory to a single payer system.

If, in any way, I can avoid a single payer health care system, I will.

Let us not talk about difficulties with Obamacare. All I am concerned with is avoiding the single payer socialist system which is what they want.

Avoid Socialism at all costs. I wish my grand parents had followed that course when it came to Social Security.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:26:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:


I understand what you are saying. I also understand that what is going on is preparatory to a single payer system.

If, in any way, I can avoid a single payer health care system, I will.

Let us not talk about difficulties with Obamacare. All I am concerned with is avoiding the single payer socialist system which is what they want.

Avoid Socialism at all costs. I wish my grand parents had followed that course when it came to Social Security.
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
pay the fine and buy the plan of choice . much cheaper,,,,,,


This may be the response which kills Obamacare.

Or, at least I hope so.



Umm, once we get through some of the 2014 old policy extension issues, if you buy a policy you DON'T pay a fine (aka: tax). That is part of the ACA.

For those that will pay the fine and NOT carry any coverage (and don't have a million bucks to cover a catostraphic illness), what will you do????

Here is the answer: you will go to the hospital and receive that million $$ in treatment even if you can't pay. You know why: because that is what we do. Every single taxpayer will help pay for your life-saving treatment. You can just thank me now!


I understand what you are saying. I also understand that what is going on is preparatory to a single payer system.

If, in any way, I can avoid a single payer health care system, I will.

Let us not talk about difficulties with Obamacare. All I am concerned with is avoiding the single payer socialist system which is what they want.

Avoid Socialism at all costs. I wish my grand parents had followed that course when it came to Social Security.



Point well taken, and I agree.

You must realize that, for better or worse, we are past the point of no return regarding healthcare in this country. We will never be able to go back to pre-ACA. If the ACA fails, the solution is a single payer system. By definition, in a single payer system, you have NO choices. It's socialized medicine. The easiest way to envision a single-payer system in this country is simply to envision MEDICARE for EVERYONE.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:27:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RovingTexan:
From what I understand, it's now illegal for an insurance company to sell a "non obamacare" policy.
View Quote
Yes and no. There are new benefit mandates, but companies can still sell policies off the exchange.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:28:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
How about not complying and telling them to shove their fines straight up their asses?
View Quote


that's what I plan on doing
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:31:49 PM EST
I believe it's already been mentioned, but yes, it appears as if the only way they can get the fine from you is to withhold it from a tax return. The IRS has been pretty mum on all of that, but one thing we do know for certain is that criminal action is precluded by the law.

Just realize that the fine can be bigger than most people realize, the first year it's the greater of $95 per adult or 1% of "excess income."
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:37:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 4:38:14 PM EST by DDalton]
nvm

If you buy a policy, whether it be through the Obamacare exchange or you purchase an individual policy or enroll in a group policy directly through an insurance carrier (and all their policies have to be Obamacare compliant as to coverage like maternity and pediatric dental), then you don't have to pay the tax.

If you want a subsidy, you will have to go through the Obamacare exchange. If not, don't buy a policy at all and pay the tax, or feel free to buy a policy dircetly from Blue Cross or whatever other company providing coverage in your location. Buit whatever your policy is, it is required to be compliant with the Obamacare law.

There will still be groups. A local PPO came to my office last week (my employer doesn't provide insurance) and offered as many (or one) of us as wanted to get in on a "group" policy. We could chose from 2 platinum policies or a gold policy, but everyone in our office had to choose the same one. The prices were very comparable (maybe just a little cheaper, but not much) to the individual policies I priced out directly from Blue Cross last week. Nut they all have the same coverage in them, the only differences are how much you pay vs. the insurance company.

Bottom line: No, it won't be cheaper to any degree. The same insurance companies that are selling polidies through the Obamacare exchange are selling them outside the Obamacare exchange. Everyone (that has to pay) is going to pay more, because policies purchased outside the exchange are subsidizing the exchange as much as those sold in the exchange. It's all going to the same pool of money.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:39:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
I believe it's already been mentioned, but yes, it appears as if the only way they can get the fine from you is to withhold it from a tax return. The IRS has been pretty mum on all of that, but one thing we do know for certain is that criminal action is precluded by the law.

Just realize that the fine can be bigger than most people realize, the first year it's the greater of $95 per adult or 1% of "excess income."
View Quote


In my case, that is pretty expensive.

I worked hard for a long time to get where I am, and now I find myself penalized for doing good.

That is the way I look at it.

For now, while I am still employed, (at 57). my employer will bear the brunt of the increased health care costs. (I also own stock in other cos. which are doing the same thing).

Bottom line; More money picked out of my pocket. I have to pay the 3.8% Obamacare tax on top of that.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:45:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:


In my case, that is pretty expensive.

I worked hard for a long time to get where I am, and now I find myself penalized for doing good.

That is the way I look at it.

For now, while I am still employed, (at 57). my employer will bear the brunt of the increased health care costs. (I also own stock in other cos. which are doing the same thing).

Bottom line; More money picked out of my pocket. I have to pay the 3.8% Obamacare tax on top of that.
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
I believe it's already been mentioned, but yes, it appears as if the only way they can get the fine from you is to withhold it from a tax return. The IRS has been pretty mum on all of that, but one thing we do know for certain is that criminal action is precluded by the law.

Just realize that the fine can be bigger than most people realize, the first year it's the greater of $95 per adult or 1% of "excess income."


In my case, that is pretty expensive.

I worked hard for a long time to get where I am, and now I find myself penalized for doing good.

That is the way I look at it.

For now, while I am still employed, (at 57). my employer will bear the brunt of the increased health care costs. (I also own stock in other cos. which are doing the same thing).

Bottom line; More money picked out of my pocket. I have to pay the 3.8% Obamacare tax on top of that.
At least once you qualify for Medicare you won't have to worry about the penalty .


Seriously though, I feel your pain. I deal with pissed off clients every day and I try to keep them off the govts. radar by staying compliant with this bullshit. Employer costs are going way up and they're having to make some difficult choices.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:48:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 4:52:16 PM EST by AlvinYork]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DDalton:
nvm

If you buy a policy, whether it be through the Obamacare exchange or you purchase an individual policy or enroll in a group policy directly through an insurance carrier (and all their policies have to be Obamacare compliant as to coverage like maternity and pediatric dental), then you don't have to pay the tax.

If you want a subsidy, you will have to go through the Obamacare exchange. If not, don't buy a policy at all and pay the tax, or feel free to buy a policy dircetly from Blue Cross or whatever other company providing coverage in your location. Buit whatever your policy is, it is required to be compliant with the Obamacare law.

There will still be groups. A local PPO came to my office last week (my employer doesn't provide insurance) and offered as many (or one) of us as wanted to get in on a "group" policy. We could chose from 2 platinum policies or a gold policy, but everyone in our office had to choose the same one. The prices were very comparable (maybe just a little cheaper, but not much) to the individual policies I priced out directly from Blue Cross last week. Nut they all have the same coverage in them, the only differences are how much you pay vs. the insurance company.

Bottom line: No, it won't be cheaper to any degree. The same insurance companies that are selling polidies through the Obamacare exchange are selling them outside the Obamacare exchange. Everyone (that has to pay) is going to pay more, because policies purchased outside the exchange are subsidizing the exchange as much as those sold in the exchange. It's all going to the same pool of money.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.
View Quote

What I'm asking is, can you pay the fine inorder to buy into a policy that is not Zerocare approved, Zerocare certified, Zerocare anything? Just pay the fine to get the policy in the group of your choice. I agree the fact that we are discussing this, that we have to be concerned about this is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:53:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:

What I'm asking is, can you pay the fine inorder to buy into a policy that is not Zerocare approved, Zerocare certified, Zerocare anything? Just pay the fine to get the policy in the group of your choice. I agree the fact that we are discussing this is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By DDalton:
nvm

If you buy a policy, whether it be through the Obamacare exchange or you purchase an individual policy or enroll in a group policy directly through an insurance carrier (and all their policies have to be Obamacare compliant as to coverage like maternity and pediatric dental), then you don't have to pay the tax.

If you want a subsidy, you will have to go through the Obamacare exchange. If not, don't buy a policy at all and pay the tax, or feel free to buy a policy dircetly from Blue Cross or whatever other company providing coverage in your location. Buit whatever your policy is, it is required to be compliant with the Obamacare law.

There will still be groups. A local PPO came to my office last week (my employer doesn't provide insurance) and offered as many (or one) of us as wanted to get in on a "group" policy. We could chose from 2 platinum policies or a gold policy, but everyone in our office had to choose the same one. The prices were very comparable (maybe just a little cheaper, but not much) to the individual policies I priced out directly from Blue Cross last week. Nut they all have the same coverage in them, the only differences are how much you pay vs. the insurance company.

Bottom line: No, it won't be cheaper to any degree. The same insurance companies that are selling polidies through the Obamacare exchange are selling them outside the Obamacare exchange. Everyone (that has to pay) is going to pay more, because policies purchased outside the exchange are subsidizing the exchange as much as those sold in the exchange. It's all going to the same pool of money.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.

What I'm asking is, can you pay the fine inorder to buy into a policy that is not Zerocare approved, Zerocare certified, Zerocare anything? Just pay the fine to get the policy in the group of your choice. I agree the fact that we are discussing this is wrong, wrong, wrong.
WHat type of policy do you have in mind? Keep in mind the threshold to avoid the individual mandate penalty is very low. "Minimum Essential Coverage" basically means any type of health insurance policy or anything you might get from work. The only types of policy that wont get you out of the penalty are things like dental and vision only or hospital or other indemnity coverage.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:55:03 PM EST
That is what worries me. My employer is paying over 100k on top of their old insurance costs. (self insured, though to me, that is an oxymoron).

Now, being a big company, they can afford it. Maybe.

At 57, I am too young to consider medicare, and too old to consider leaving my employer, (though I realize I don't have a choice about that. non-union job for 39 years, I must have done some thing right.)

I have done fairly well over the years, which means I am directly in the cross hairs of the current administration. I am a "wealthy kulak", in other words.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:00:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
That is what worries me. My employer is paying over 100k on top of their old insurance costs. (self insured, though to me, that is an oxymoron).

Now, being a big company, they can afford it. Maybe.

At 57, I am too young to consider medicare, and too old to consider leaving my employer, (though I realize I don't have a choice about that. non-union job for 39 years, I must have done some thing right.)

I have done fairly well over the years, which means I am directly in the cross hairs of the current administration. I am a "wealthy kulak", in other words.
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My company designs and administers plans for companies that self insure. THe interesting thing is that self-insured plans have a bit more latitude when it comes to benefit mandates. We are doing lots of new business for very minimal and much cheaper types of plans. They don't cover much, but they are relatively inexpensive and they will get employees out of the individual mandate. They also get the employer out of most of the penalties from the employer mandate. It's an interesting time to be in this business that's for sure.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:06:33 PM EST
Obamacare is one thing.

Compare Obamacare t Social Security.

One size fits all. That is the Gov't way.

I am 57 year old male. I don't need maternity insurance.

I don't need dental insurance. I don't have teeth. (I compared the cash cost of my new dentures to the dental plan sold at work. I came out way ahead paying cash.)

I don't like the Gov't idea of what insurance I need.

Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:07:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
Yes and no. There are new benefit mandates, but companies can still sell policies off the exchange.
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Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
Originally Posted By RovingTexan:
From what I understand, it's now illegal for an insurance company to sell a "non obamacare" policy.
Yes and no. There are new benefit mandates, but companies can still sell policies off the exchange.
You are correct. I meant to say "non obamacare" compliant policy. My bad!
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:10:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
I am a "wealthy kulak", in other words.
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Dad! Is that you?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:13:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AlvinYork:

What I'm asking is, can you pay the fine inorder to buy into a policy that is not Zerocare approved, Zerocare certified, Zerocare anything? Just pay the fine to get the policy in the group of your choice. I agree the fact that we are discussing this, that we have to be concerned about this is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By DDalton:
nvm

If you buy a policy, whether it be through the Obamacare exchange or you purchase an individual policy or enroll in a group policy directly through an insurance carrier (and all their policies have to be Obamacare compliant as to coverage like maternity and pediatric dental), then you don't have to pay the tax.

If you want a subsidy, you will have to go through the Obamacare exchange. If not, don't buy a policy at all and pay the tax, or feel free to buy a policy dircetly from Blue Cross or whatever other company providing coverage in your location. Buit whatever your policy is, it is required to be compliant with the Obamacare law.

There will still be groups. A local PPO came to my office last week (my employer doesn't provide insurance) and offered as many (or one) of us as wanted to get in on a "group" policy. We could chose from 2 platinum policies or a gold policy, but everyone in our office had to choose the same one. The prices were very comparable (maybe just a little cheaper, but not much) to the individual policies I priced out directly from Blue Cross last week. Nut they all have the same coverage in them, the only differences are how much you pay vs. the insurance company.

Bottom line: No, it won't be cheaper to any degree. The same insurance companies that are selling polidies through the Obamacare exchange are selling them outside the Obamacare exchange. Everyone (that has to pay) is going to pay more, because policies purchased outside the exchange are subsidizing the exchange as much as those sold in the exchange. It's all going to the same pool of money.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.

What I'm asking is, can you pay the fine inorder to buy into a policy that is not Zerocare approved, Zerocare certified, Zerocare anything? Just pay the fine to get the policy in the group of your choice. I agree the fact that we are discussing this, that we have to be concerned about this is wrong, wrong, wrong.



The answer to your question is NO. You can no longer enroll in a non-ACA compliant policy. Insurance companies are banned from selling them.

You also need to understand that you can't just buy into any group policy. You buy an individual policy. To establish a group for policy purposes is a little more involved than getting a bunch of your buddies together and calling yourself a group.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:16:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:



The answer to your question is NO. You can no longer enroll in a non-ACA compliant policy. Insurance companies are banned from selling them.

You also need to understand that you can't just buy into any group policy. You buy an individual policy. To establish a group for policy purposes is a little more involved than getting a bunch of your buddies together and calling yourself a group.
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By DDalton:
nvm

If you buy a policy, whether it be through the Obamacare exchange or you purchase an individual policy or enroll in a group policy directly through an insurance carrier (and all their policies have to be Obamacare compliant as to coverage like maternity and pediatric dental), then you don't have to pay the tax.

If you want a subsidy, you will have to go through the Obamacare exchange. If not, don't buy a policy at all and pay the tax, or feel free to buy a policy dircetly from Blue Cross or whatever other company providing coverage in your location. Buit whatever your policy is, it is required to be compliant with the Obamacare law.

There will still be groups. A local PPO came to my office last week (my employer doesn't provide insurance) and offered as many (or one) of us as wanted to get in on a "group" policy. We could chose from 2 platinum policies or a gold policy, but everyone in our office had to choose the same one. The prices were very comparable (maybe just a little cheaper, but not much) to the individual policies I priced out directly from Blue Cross last week. Nut they all have the same coverage in them, the only differences are how much you pay vs. the insurance company.

Bottom line: No, it won't be cheaper to any degree. The same insurance companies that are selling polidies through the Obamacare exchange are selling them outside the Obamacare exchange. Everyone (that has to pay) is going to pay more, because policies purchased outside the exchange are subsidizing the exchange as much as those sold in the exchange. It's all going to the same pool of money.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.

What I'm asking is, can you pay the fine inorder to buy into a policy that is not Zerocare approved, Zerocare certified, Zerocare anything? Just pay the fine to get the policy in the group of your choice. I agree the fact that we are discussing this, that we have to be concerned about this is wrong, wrong, wrong.



The answer to your question is NO. You can no longer enroll in a non-ACA compliant policy. Insurance companies are banned from selling them.

You also need to understand that you can't just buy into any group policy. You buy an individual policy. To establish a group for policy purposes is a little more involved than getting a bunch of your buddies together and calling yourself a group.
RIght, group policies are made available to you typically from work.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:17:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:

You must realize that, for better or worse, we are past the point of no return regarding healthcare in this country. We will never be able to go back to pre-ACA. If the ACA fails, the solution is a single payer system. By definition, in a single payer system, you have NO choices. It's socialized medicine. The easiest way to envision a single-payer system in this country is simply to envision MEDICARE for EVERYONE.
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You are wrong. Get a Republican majority in the House and Senate that can override a repeal veto (may need some libs) the we can go back to pre-Obamacare with improvements based upon free-market principles.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:20:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Obamacare is one thing.

Compare Obamacare t Social Security.

One size fits all. That is the Gov't way.

I am 57 year old male. I don't need maternity insurance.

I don't need dental insurance. I don't have teeth. (I compared the cash cost of my new dentures to the dental plan sold at work. I came out way ahead paying cash.)

I don't like the Gov't idea of what insurance I need.

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It's unfortunate to see so much misinformation out there. The ACA is not on size fits all. I live in Texas. I have 53 different plans to chose from. I pick what I want. Adult dental coverage is not required under the ACA. It actually is not even offered. The dental component of the ACA only relates to children.

Please DO NOT believe 99% of what you hear politicians and media talking heads. They are spinning the truth to convince you to take their side.


Please, please do your research before you make assumptions!!!
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:23:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:



It's unfortunate to see so much misinformation out there. The ACA is not on size fits all. I live in Texas. I have 53 different plans to chose from. I pick what I want. Adult dental coverage is not required under the ACA. It actually is not even offered. The dental component of the ACA only relates to children.

Please DO NOT believe 99% of what you hear politicians and media talking heads. They are spinning the truth to convince you to take their side.


Please, please do your research before you make assumptions!!!
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Obamacare is one thing.

Compare Obamacare t Social Security.

One size fits all. That is the Gov't way.

I am 57 year old male. I don't need maternity insurance.

I don't need dental insurance. I don't have teeth. (I compared the cash cost of my new dentures to the dental plan sold at work. I came out way ahead paying cash.)

I don't like the Gov't idea of what insurance I need.




It's unfortunate to see so much misinformation out there. The ACA is not on size fits all. I live in Texas. I have 53 different plans to chose from. I pick what I want. Adult dental coverage is not required under the ACA. It actually is not even offered. The dental component of the ACA only relates to children.

Please DO NOT believe 99% of what you hear politicians and media talking heads. They are spinning the truth to convince you to take their side.


Please, please do your research before you make assumptions!!!
That doesn't mean any of those plans will be affordable or offer a good mix of coverage to cost. In fact, most exchange plans have very high deductibles and narrow networks in order to stay even slightly competitive.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:27:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:


You are wrong. Get a Republican majority in the House and Senate that can override a repeal veto (may need some libs) the we can go back to pre-Obamacare with improvements based upon free-market principles.
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:

You must realize that, for better or worse, we are past the point of no return regarding healthcare in this country. We will never be able to go back to pre-ACA. If the ACA fails, the solution is a single payer system. By definition, in a single payer system, you have NO choices. It's socialized medicine. The easiest way to envision a single-payer system in this country is simply to envision MEDICARE for EVERYONE.


You are wrong. Get a Republican majority in the House and Senate that can override a repeal veto (may need some libs) the we can go back to pre-Obamacare with improvements based upon free-market principles.


Sorry to explain just how misinformed you are, but health insurance in this country is run by public companies, controlled by the states through state commissions. The changes in the entire healthcare industry based on the ACA can not simply be undone by the wave of a hand in Washington. Look at what happened when they tried to reinstate canceled policies.

This issue has gone way past politics. This gone past the point of no return. Sorry to break this news to you.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:32:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
That doesn't mean any of those plans will be affordable or offer a good mix of coverage to cost. In fact, most exchange plans have very high deductibles and narrow networks in order to stay even slightly competitive.
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Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Obamacare is one thing.

Compare Obamacare t Social Security.

One size fits all. That is the Gov't way.

I am 57 year old male. I don't need maternity insurance.

I don't need dental insurance. I don't have teeth. (I compared the cash cost of my new dentures to the dental plan sold at work. I came out way ahead paying cash.)

I don't like the Gov't idea of what insurance I need.




It's unfortunate to see so much misinformation out there. The ACA is not on size fits all. I live in Texas. I have 53 different plans to chose from. I pick what I want. Adult dental coverage is not required under the ACA. It actually is not even offered. The dental component of the ACA only relates to children.

Please DO NOT believe 99% of what you hear politicians and media talking heads. They are spinning the truth to convince you to take their side.


Please, please do your research before you make assumptions!!!
That doesn't mean any of those plans will be affordable or offer a good mix of coverage to cost. In fact, most exchange plans have very high deductibles and narrow networks in order to stay even slightly competitive.



Off the exchange I purchased a BC/BS PPO policy that has a broader network than any of my previous policies. I made sure all of my doctors were in network before I chose the policy.

For the LAST TIME: do your own research. DO NOT believe 95% of what you hear in the media.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:33:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RCK1999:


Sorry to explain just how misinformed you are, but health insurance in this country is run by public companies, controlled by the states through state commissions. The changes in the entire healthcare industry based on the ACA can not simply be undone by the wave of a hand in Washington. Look at what happened when they tried to reinstate canceled policies.

This issue has gone way past politics. This gone past the point of no return. Sorry to break this news to you.
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:

You must realize that, for better or worse, we are past the point of no return regarding healthcare in this country. We will never be able to go back to pre-ACA. If the ACA fails, the solution is a single payer system. By definition, in a single payer system, you have NO choices. It's socialized medicine. The easiest way to envision a single-payer system in this country is simply to envision MEDICARE for EVERYONE.


You are wrong. Get a Republican majority in the House and Senate that can override a repeal veto (may need some libs) the we can go back to pre-Obamacare with improvements based upon free-market principles.


Sorry to explain just how misinformed you are, but health insurance in this country is run by public companies, controlled by the states through state commissions. The changes in the entire healthcare industry based on the ACA can not simply be undone by the wave of a hand in Washington. Look at what happened when they tried to reinstate canceled policies.

This issue has gone way past politics. This gone past the point of no return. Sorry to break this news to you.
Yes and no. A large segment (estimates of over 50% usually) of health care plans in this country are through self-insured group health plans that are not subjec tto state insurance regulation. These plans are governed by ERISA and are pretty much overseen by the fed agencies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:35:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:



Off the exchange I purchased a BC/BS PPO policy that has a broader network than any of my previous policies. I made sure all of my doctors were in network before I chose the policy.

For the LAST TIME: do your own research. DO NOT believe 95% of what you hear in the media.
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Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Obamacare is one thing.

Compare Obamacare t Social Security.

One size fits all. That is the Gov't way.

I am 57 year old male. I don't need maternity insurance.

I don't need dental insurance. I don't have teeth. (I compared the cash cost of my new dentures to the dental plan sold at work. I came out way ahead paying cash.)

I don't like the Gov't idea of what insurance I need.




It's unfortunate to see so much misinformation out there. The ACA is not on size fits all. I live in Texas. I have 53 different plans to chose from. I pick what I want. Adult dental coverage is not required under the ACA. It actually is not even offered. The dental component of the ACA only relates to children.

Please DO NOT believe 99% of what you hear politicians and media talking heads. They are spinning the truth to convince you to take their side.


Please, please do your research before you make assumptions!!!
That doesn't mean any of those plans will be affordable or offer a good mix of coverage to cost. In fact, most exchange plans have very high deductibles and narrow networks in order to stay even slightly competitive.



Off the exchange I purchased a BC/BS PPO policy that has a broader network than any of my previous policies. I made sure all of my doctors were in network before I chose the policy.

For the LAST TIME: do your own research. DO NOT believe 95% of what you hear in the media.
No worries there friend, I do that research for a living.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:37:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
Yes and no. A large segment (estimates of over 50% usually) of health care plans in this country are through self-insured group health plans that are not subjec tto state insurance regulation. These plans are governed by ERISA and are pretty much overseen by the fed agencies.
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Originally Posted By TxAggieA-Batt:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:
Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Originally Posted By RCK1999:

You must realize that, for better or worse, we are past the point of no return regarding healthcare in this country. We will never be able to go back to pre-ACA. If the ACA fails, the solution is a single payer system. By definition, in a single payer system, you have NO choices. It's socialized medicine. The easiest way to envision a single-payer system in this country is simply to envision MEDICARE for EVERYONE.


You are wrong. Get a Republican majority in the House and Senate that can override a repeal veto (may need some libs) the we can go back to pre-Obamacare with improvements based upon free-market principles.


Sorry to explain just how misinformed you are, but health insurance in this country is run by public companies, controlled by the states through state commissions. The changes in the entire healthcare industry based on the ACA can not simply be undone by the wave of a hand in Washington. Look at what happened when they tried to reinstate canceled policies.

This issue has gone way past politics. This gone past the point of no return. Sorry to break this news to you.
Yes and no. A large segment (estimates of over 50% usually) of health care plans in this country are through self-insured group health plans that are not subjec tto state insurance regulation. These plans are governed by ERISA and are pretty much overseen by the fed agencies.



This is true. Particularly companies that self-insure. My thought process was based on the individual market.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:54:57 PM EST
how about get rid of all forms of insurance, which is exactly based upon the idea we pay for each other's needs, regardless of form and shape, everyone just pay for their own cares, and defend their own family...who wants to pay for the carriers, the B2's, who needs the country then?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:57:14 PM EST
If health insurance was actually insurance, it would be a good thing. It's when it turned into health insurance=health care that we started down this road. Insurance is supposed to be a defense against catastrophic loss, but it morphed into what we have now unfortunately.
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