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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 3:25:26 AM EDT by VA-gunnut]
VA-gunnut has given me the preliminary okay to open a mature discussion on various sexual/biological issues that people of all faiths (or no faith) must deal with in some form or another.

Our sexuality is an intrinsic part of our existence, and therefore it is something that should be dealt with out in the open even within religious contexts.


I. Masturbation

I considered myself a Christian up until I moved out to college. During my Christian years as a teenager, the main thing I struggled with was getting a hold of my sprouting sexuality. I knew it was a sin to have sexual fantasies, and masturbation was sort of the ultimate act of sin that was a conglomeration of lustful thoughts and enjoyment of orgasm outside the context of procreation. Every time I did the deed I felt guilty afterwards, and I was too ashamed to ask my pastor whether it was okay. Keeping it all bottled up was the worst thing I could have done about the issue. One time I went a whole 2 weeks without choking the snake, and I absolutely just couldn’t function. I couldn’t pay attention in school, my 40 year old English teacher suddenly started looking oh so sexy, and I couldn’t get a good night’s rest. Finally, one Sunday after church I went home, grabbed my sister’s Victoria secret catalogue, turned to a page with Stephanie Seymour and just went to town on that baby. There was a large amount of unusually clumpy semen in the aftermath, and it frightened me. During my next physical I asked my pediatrician about it, and he confirmed that regular prostate “oil changes” are important to prevent that clumping and reduce the risk for prostate cancer in the long run. That was just what I needed to hear, and from that day on I rationalized that my sexual organs are just like my other organs and that they needed to be well taken care of just like the rest of my body. I mean, God wants me to be healthy, right?

Sexuality was one of the things that I could never reconcile with my former Christian faith, so I left my faith behind. It is a sin to lust, yet lust is instrinsic to being alive. Masturbation is a normal physiological function, but lust and masturbation are intrinsically linked. It was a no-win situtation from the way I looked at it.

Just curious how everyone deals with the issue within the context of your respective faiths.


II. Birth control

What do you (or your partner) use for birth control (if any), and how do you reconcile it with your particular faith?

A girl I used to date was on orthotricyclen, which prevents conception from even occurring. There are other drugs that allow conception to occur, but prevents implantation into the uterus so that any fertilized egg is released from the body and discarded.

What about condoms? Condoms with spermicide? Is the sperm or egg cell important to your faith?



Adding a warning to this thread

I would appreciate it if everyone would keep their responses clean and done in a civil way. I don't want to regret allowing this post to be made.

Thanks, VA-gunnut
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:40:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
VA-gunnut has given me the preliminary okay to open a mature discussion on various sexual/biological issues that people of all faiths (or no faith) must deal with in some form or another.

Our sexuality is an intrinsic part of our existence, and therefore it is something that should be dealt with out in the open even within religious contexts.


I. Masturbation

I considered myself a Christian up until I moved out to college. During my Christian years as a teenager, the main thing I struggled with was getting a hold of my sprouting sexuality. I knew it was a sin to have sexual fantasies, and masturbation was sort of the ultimate act of sin that was a conglomeration of lustful thoughts and enjoyment of orgasm outside the context of procreation. Every time I did the deed I felt guilty afterwards, and I was too ashamed to ask my pastor whether it was okay. Keeping it all bottled up was the worst thing I could have done about the issue. One time I went a whole 2 weeks without choking the snake, and I absolutely just couldn’t function. I couldn’t pay attention in school, my 40 year old English teacher suddenly started looking oh so sexy, and I couldn’t get a good night’s rest. Finally, one Sunday after church I went home, grabbed my sister’s Victoria secret catalogue, turned to a page with Stephanie Seymour and just went to town on that baby. There was a large amount of unusually clumpy semen in the aftermath, and it frightened me. During my next physical I asked my pediatrician about it, and he confirmed that regular prostate “oil changes” are important to prevent that clumping and reduce the risk for prostate cancer in the long run. That was just what I needed to hear, and from that day on I rationalized that my sexual organs are just like my other organs and that they needed to be well taken care of just like the rest of my body. I mean, God wants me to be healthy, right?

Sexuality was one of the things that I could never reconcile with my former Christian faith, so I left my faith behind. It is a sin to lust, yet lust is instrinsic to being alive. Masturbation is a normal physiological function, but lust and masturbation are intrinsically linked. It was a no-win situtation from the way I looked at it.

Just curious how everyone deals with the issue within the context of your respective faiths.


II. Birth control

What do you (or your partner) use for birth control (if any), and how do you reconcile it with your particular faith?

A girl I used to date was on orthotricyclen, which prevents conception from even occurring. There are other drugs that allow conception to occur, but prevents implantation into the uterus so that any fertilized egg is released from the body and discarded.

What about condoms? Condoms with spermicide? Is the sperm or egg cell important to your faith?




WoW! way too much information on your masturbation history

Dont let struggles in the flesh effect your faith, we are not perfect, therefore do not allow self judgement (or anyone else) effect your relationship with the Lord.

other responses should be good
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:57:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By V-Rod:

WoW! way too much information on your masturbation history

Dont let struggles in the flesh effect your faith, we are not perfect, therefore do not allow self judgement (or anyone else) effect your relationship with the Lord.

other responses should be good



Ah, I figured we should be open and honest!

That's the thing, I do not want to struggle. It's a never ending cycle of torment that can lead to mental and physical breakdown. If Christianity accepts our natural humanity as normal and acceptable, I will be a Christian again one day.

I believe you can't be a Christian if you consciously continue to commit sinful acts without remorse. This is why I do not consider myself a follower a Christ anymore. Our sexuality is something to be enjoyed -- not repressed -- and that is not compatible with Christianity.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:27:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
This is why I do not consider myself a follower a Christ anymore.



I think it a little deeper than that. but the choice is your, it always is. At least until you take your last breath
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 10:46:14 PM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
Our sexuality is something to be enjoyed -- not repressed -- and that is not compatible with Christianity.



I gotta disagree with you there, Shadow. Our sexual nature is given to us by God. We should restrain it outside the confines of marriage, but repressing it completely is probably not a good idea, unless you're into self-mortification (which carries it's own psycological as well as physiological issues), or believe you have a higher calling to do so. Apologies to the celibate folks here (or the folks whose clergy are celibate), but this is just the way I see it.


1 Corinthinans 7:
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.



It's my belief that while we are all tempted to sin, none of us is tested further than we can endure. I have a feeling that's why we (well, the guys at least) are born with the safety valve (pun intended) of nocturnal emmission.

Sidenote: I believe that God struck down Onan for his actual sin: disobeying a command from God, rather than "spilling his seed".

As far as birth control, I guess it starts with where you believe life begins. I don't have any issue with a method that precludes the sperm and egg from meeting.

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:23:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 11:06:38 PM EDT by chewbacca]
How do I deal with masturbation and birth control?

I screw my girlfriend and she eats the pills.

Seriously.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:46:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 10:50:27 PM EDT by FMD]
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:10:25 PM EDT
Hefty topic, but I'll give you my .02.

Masturbation is necessary. If you don't do it, God does it for you (nocturnal emissions).

God designed your balls, and they leak. Whether or not you purge the venom, it's coming out anyway and you WILL enjoy it. You're supposed to.

Birth control? Well, I'm flatly in favor of it in all its many flavors. Frankly, it's been one of the most important developments of mankind, choosing when and with whom we procreate, and how often. If God doesn't endorse it, he should.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:40:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:


It's my belief that while we are all tempted to sin, none of us is tested further than we can endure. I have a feeling that's why we (well, the guys at least) are born with the safety valve (pun intended) of nocturnal emmission.

Sidenote: I believe that God struck down Onan for his actual sin: disobeying a command from God, rather than "spilling his seed".





Fair enough. But if one no longer resists the temptation, but rather indulges in it in the belief that is is a natural function of a living human being, then do you believe that person is still a Christian? I do not, because to be a Christian is to have acknowledgement and remorse for sin when it is committed.

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:47:35 PM EDT
1. masturbation, if the old lady is pissed at me or not home, then I happily take care of bidness. after all, my hand doesn't talk back.

2. BC. Like the man said, I screw her, she eats pills (hopefully)
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:17:08 AM EDT
Um...Someonece once told me that masturbation is healthy, to which I replied "I am VERY healthy".

If it is a sin, then I am a sinner of grand proportion, yet I believe that it is a method to help placate the drive that compells me to want to spread my seed in every field. Maybe I am wrong, but I think of it as a least of the evils that are available.


B/C is a moral consideration, I do not like the pill as it allows the egg to be fertilized, just not implant. My wife is currently using an IUD which contains hormones as well, and supposedly also prevents sperm from reaching their destination (that part I find hard to believe) but that reasoning was why she chose that particular form of BC.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:22:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
Um...Someonece once told me that masturbation is healthy, to which I replied "I am VERY healthy".

If it is a sin, then I am a sinner of grand proportion, yet I believe that it is a method to help placate the drive that compells me to want to spread my seed in every field. Maybe I am wrong, but I think of it as a least of the evils that are available.


B/C is a moral consideration, I do not like the pill as it allows the egg to be fertilized, just not implant. My wife is currently using an IUD which contains hormones as well, and supposedly also prevents sperm from reaching their destination (that part I find hard to believe) but that reasoning was why she chose that particular form of BC.


My wife and I had discussed that moral issue and considered IUD. We both consider the one that's here more important than the one that may or may not get fertilized and implant. IUD is dangerous. I'm more worried about my wife's health than the possibility that an egg gets fertilized and doesn't implant. Which by the way happens often when NO birth control pills are used.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:48:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:



My wife and I had discussed that moral issue and considered IUD. We both consider the one that's here more important than the one that may or may not get fertilized and implant. IUD is dangerous. I'm more worried about my wife's health than the possibility that an egg gets fertilized and doesn't implant. Which by the way happens often when NO birth control pills are used.

I was against the IUD, but was met with the arguement "My body" etc.....

My mother had a miscarriage when i was I was 6 years old or so, I found out later that she had gotten pregnant while using an IUD, so I have some pretty strong feelings about them, but I have hope that they are better and safer now than they were 25 or so years ago.

Personally I think were fine with the cycle? method...dammit forgot the word, but not doing it certain times of the month.....'cept for the problem of that it also happened to be the time of the month that she is the horniest.

We have two children, and they are great, and the reason she wanted to use BC this time around was because she thought it would be best to wait a couple years before having another....but she just recently decided that she wants to get prego again in January.

I love kids, they are a blast, so I am not complaining. Heck if she would let me take on concubines solely for kid making, I would.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:32:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 4:37:21 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]
Number 1 is a touchy subject. (No pun intended...) The Bible does not have a specific condemnation of masturbation itself (the story of Onan is mis-applied by some) but it is very clear in pointing out that looking on a woman to lust after her is sin. Levitical law specifically deals with nocturnal emissions, and it didn't seem to be any really big deal, requiring the same washing with water that sex with one's wife required.

I can't say for absolute certainty that the mere act of masturbation is in and of itself a sin. The thought life that goes along with it, on the other hand, is definately a problem. It is certainly sin to be watching porn and masturbating.

Lots of folks don't like to talk about it specifically because if they say it isn't necessarily a mortal sin that people will take license from that and become just plain perverse.

My best personal advice on the topic is refrain, fast, pray, and seek God's will on your own. Not masturbating isn't going to harm you in the least. The body has ways of dealing with such things without you having anything to do with it.

I am puzzled, however, by the portion after your question on the big M. If you were ever a Christian in the first place, then you know that God created you and as such He has the right to define what is and is not proper with the use of your body. Thus substituting your ideas for what is natural or "repressive" seems really silly. Who are you as a creation to disagree with the creator?

And if you expect Christianity to be absent a struggle with the flesh, then you really don't understand Christianity at all. We are supposed to present our bodies as a living sacrifice and be conformed to the charachter of Jesus Christ. Christ was obedient unto suffering and death. He struggled with His flesh too, yet without sin. If Christ learned obedience by the things that He suffered, how much more the humans He redeemed? For he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.

Christianity is precisely about the struggle against flesh. That is why Christ said we must take up our cross daily, and why Paul said that he died daily. Christianity is not a set of ideas, but is a life of making decisions minute by minute to glorify God rather than give vent to our baser instincts. No Christian does this perfectly, but evident within the life of the genuine Christian ought to be a pattern of obedience and submission to God.

Struggles with the flesh is the lot of the Christian. We are assured victory through Christ in all of those struggles, but there is no victory without a fight. And the struggles of the flesh are not confined to the sexual realm. Sins of greed, pride, malice, rebellion, disrespect, idle talk, gossip, lying, and a whole host of other things are sins of the flesh or sins brought about by the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. Sex is only a TINY manifestation of the sin nature that is active in the human heart. It just happens to be one of the more blatantly powerful ones because it takes a thing created by God in beauty and twists it into something evil. The drive to find a mate is something God created in each of us, and the desire for sexual intimacy is something that God created in each of us.

He created it in us for a specific context in which it finds the beauty and majesty He intended. Outside of that context, however, it is deadly. No Christian, indeed no man should ever be a slave to his base instincts and urges. You have no idea how many times I have heard people justify sin by saying "God wants me to be happy, right?" The answer, of course, is yes. But they think that because God wants them to be happy that He won't really mind their divorcing their husband and running off with some guy they met at church whom they feel is their "soul mate". Or that God won't mind that they stop being a wife to their husband and just treat him "like a friend" who pays the bills. Or that God doesn't really care if someone is homosexual or not. Or that God doesn't really expect them to obey those who rule over them in the Lord. Or that God doesn't really expect them to be a contributing member of the church. Or.....

Get the idea? "God wants me to be healthy/happy, right?" is the question asked by rebels who seek to justify and excuse their behavior. Self deception of that nature is one of the worst types of sin because it is so hard to snap someone out of a state of self-delusion. It is easier to deprogram someone stuck in a cult than someone who thinks "God wants me to be happy, right?"

On number 2, there is no problem. I don't see any real solid scriptural reason to hold the egg or the sperm to be of any sacred value in and of themselves.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:47:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 4:49:18 AM EDT by TexasSIG]
Well, the masturbation thing is seen as a natural curiosity by the younger man, who will grow
up to be married and then there is no need any longer. That's the official party line anyway.
Find no real Biblical evidence to support that it's anything other than a part of a boy turning
into a man. Now, at an adult age, you're expected to be married. For those that choose
not to marry, no choking the chicken either. Celibate means celibate.

Birth Control is not regulated at all, again within the confines of marriage.
Men are free to exercise the Free Will given by God to decide if they want more children or not.
Shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage, that never happens right? That's the
party line again anyway.......

That's the Anglican take on it. Not too complicated. Next issue?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:53:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Number 1 is a touchy subject. (No pun intended...)






Ladies and Gentlemen, give it up for John_Wayne! He'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitresses!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:42:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
Fair enough. But if one no longer resists the temptation, but rather indulges in it in the belief that is is a natural function of a living human being, then do you believe that person is still a Christian? I do not, because to be a Christian is to have acknowledgement and remorse for sin when it is committed.



JW77 Put it quite nicely.

The temptation I was speaking about was lust (which you acknowledged in your first post). Sexual desire is a powerful, natural urge; but it can get out of control if you let it. Finding a woman attractive isn't sin, mentally bedding her down would be. If you lust after everything with a pair of female legs, gratify yourself while thinking about her, and have zero remorse; you've got an issue with sin, not with masterbation.

I don't believe that Christians can lose their Salvation, but I do believe they can be willfully disobediant. Putting off the "old man" for the "new man" can be very difficult at times.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:52:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:52:47 AM EDT by BeetleBailey]
Wow, great questions. I too have been perplexed by the first question and am thereby waiting to see other responses.

As for the second question, my wife uses contraceptive pills. We feel as though God gave man the intelligence to create medicines to help save people, cure people, enhance our walk of life. Birth control to us is one of those things that allow us to enjoy each other within the confines of marriage without the desperately unneeded responsibility of another mouth to feed at this conjecture in our lives.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:01:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Number 1 is a touchy subject. (No pun intended...)






Ladies and Gentlemen, give it up for John_Wayne! He'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitresses!





Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:01:11 AM EDT
The only way I can deal with it is prayer. Lots of prayer and theological study.

I am not married so me and the girlfriend are feeling the strain on our relationship, but prayer gets us through it.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:11:47 AM EDT
Masterbaition is a sin, which I am guilty of.

So is premartial sex, which I am also guilty of.

Marry the girl and birth control won't be an issue.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:32:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:33:17 AM EDT by ShadowOne]

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
The only way I can deal with it is prayer. Lots of prayer and theological study.




Doesn't work. Alfed Kinsey stated it perfectly what young religious guys deal with, and I realize now what I went through as a teen was not healthy. Which is why I do not put myself in that position today.


"Millions of boys have lived in continual mental conflict over this problem. For that matter, many a boy still does. Many boys pass through a periodic succession of attempts to stop the habit, inevitable failures in those attempts, consequent periods of remorse, the making of new resolutions - and a new start on the whole cycle. It is difficult to imagine anything better calculated to do permanent damage to the personality of an individual."


Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:43:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
The only way I can deal with it is prayer. Lots of prayer and theological study.




Doesn't work.



Have you tried it?

And youy are not a boy anymore so do not use that standard.

You also know where to get the answers to youyr questions, your church and your Bible.

The problem as I see it is that you rejected those answers because you want to fuck your girlfriend before you marry her.


You don't want real answers, but rather you want the answers that you want to hear so you can continue doing what you are doing. Which is having sex and wacking off to porn.


Yes it is sinful, but the bigger issue here is your sin of rationalizing bad behaviour.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:59:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


My best personal advice on the topic is refrain, fast, pray, and seek God's will on your own. Not masturbating isn't going to harm you in the least. The body has ways of dealing with such things without you having anything to do with it.





That's not exactly true. Men who ejaculate regularly have decreased risk for prostate cancer. Flushing out the prostate is similar to flushing out the colon by taking a dump everyday. Sound body, sound mind. Taking care of one's body is a good thing (if not a duty), isn't it?

This isn't a personal attack, but this type of thought sort of sounds like those who refuse to take their child to the hospital when they become ill, because they think God will heal them. God gave us a higher brain to understand health down to the level of DNA, and we ought to use this knowledge to help ourselves and others live longer, healthier lives.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:01:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:


Have you tried it?

And youy are not a boy anymore so do not use that standard.

You also know where to get the answers to youyr questions, your church and your Bible.

The problem as I see it is that you rejected those answers because you want to fuck your girlfriend before you marry her.


You don't want real answers, but rather you want the answers that you want to hear so you can continue doing what you are doing. Which is having sex and wacking off to porn.


Yes it is sinful, but the bigger issue here is your sin of rationalizing bad behaviour.

Sgat1r5



I'm not here to get answers for myself, I have obtained them already.

My interest is to hear what answers others have found and how it fits in with their respective faiths. Pure curiosity.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:20:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
That's not exactly true. Men who ejaculate regularly have decreased risk for prostate cancer. Flushing out the prostate is similar to flushing out the colon by taking a dump everyday. Sound body, sound mind. Taking care of one's body is a good thing (if not a duty), isn't it?



Based on that, one could argue that fornication is just fine.

No, taking care of one's body does not include sin.



This isn't a personal attack, but this type of thought sort of sounds like those who refuse to take their child to the hospital when they become ill, because they think God will heal them.



So a failure to wack off equates to not giving a sick child medicine???



God gave us a higher brain to understand health down to the level of DNA, and we ought to use this knowledge to help ourselves and others live longer, healthier lives.



God did give us a brain. He also gave us His Word to live by, and in that word it commands us not to lean to our own understanding, or to put it in a more understandable way, not to trust what we think and see more than what He has said.

Ye will not surely die!! And yet they did.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:22:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
The only way I can deal with it is prayer. Lots of prayer and theological study.




Doesn't work. Alfed Kinsey stated it perfectly what young religious guys deal with, and I realize now what I went through as a teen was not healthy. Which is why I do not put myself in that position today.

"Millions of boys have lived in continual mental conflict over this problem. For that matter, many a boy still does. Many boys pass through a periodic succession of attempts to stop the habit, inevitable failures in those attempts, consequent periods of remorse, the making of new resolutions - and a new start on the whole cycle. It is difficult to imagine anything better calculated to do permanent damage to the personality of an individual."



Kinsey was a child molester.

And you expect me to listen to Him instead of God??

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:43:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
The only way I can deal with it is prayer. Lots of prayer and theological study.




Doesn't work. Alfed Kinsey stated it perfectly what young religious guys deal with, and I realize now what I went through as a teen was not healthy. Which is why I do not put myself in that position today.


"Millions of boys have lived in continual mental conflict over this problem. For that matter, many a boy still does. Many boys pass through a periodic succession of attempts to stop the habit, inevitable failures in those attempts, consequent periods of remorse, the making of new resolutions - and a new start on the whole cycle. It is difficult to imagine anything better calculated to do permanent damage to the personality of an individual."





Actually it works. It is causing a great strain on my relationship and thats somethign I need to take care of. I dont feel I am allowed to marry becuase I was not divorced for reasons of adultery. But thats another topic I may start.

I beleive God has taken my sexual desire from me with my GF so its easy to abstain. Like I said, our relationship is sufffering because human nature prefers to rebel at that which God has commanded. Prayer is the only think that can help me in this. Sex is notsomething I think of lie when I was younger, like when I was unregenerate. Its wierd as its somethign that occupoed my mind 24/7 and now the thought does not pop up.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:48:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
Actually it works. It is causing a great strain on my relationship and thats somethign I need to take care of. I dont feel I am allowed to marry becuase I was not divorced for reasons of adultery. But thats another topic I may start.



If you were divorced improperly before being saved, then you aren't under any further obligation.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:00:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Kinsey was a child molester.

And you expect me to listen to Him instead of God??




+1 Shadow, you'll need to come up with a better apologist for masterbation than Kinsey.

Just do a Google search for "Christian Masterbation" (seriously). I think you find that there are plenty of people out there who have some good answers.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:57:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:01:05 PM EDT by ShadowOne]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Kinsey was a child molester.

And you expect me to listen to Him instead of God??




Nice to see you must have done a lot of prior research in this area already to know the background of Kinsey!

Anyhow, I didn't know about the child molestation thing since I have long arrived at my own answers and no further research has been needed on my end. I was more interested in the validity of the argument that one should not feel guilty about masturbating and it can be physically and mentally destructive to overly restrain one's sexuality.

Now, this isn't a free ticket to go around raping and/or picking up street hookers left and right. But regular sexual activity in general can indeed be important to overall well-being. I do feel I am more physically and mentally healthier today than 7 years ago when I was a Christian, and part of that is that I do not need to stress over all the "don't dos" of Christianity.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:29:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:57:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Well, let's cut to the chase here. Are you asking these questions because it relates to you and your religion? Or is this just some way for you tell Christians that they shouldn't bother with their religion because sex is more important?



Still the same questions about masturbation and birth control. The thread might have side-tracked somewhat into putting me on the stand about my rationalizations, partly as if people were speaking to me as if I were still a Christian, which I stated I was not.

Practical issues that even religious people cannot avoid. And I'm curious how people of all faiths deal with it. It just happens that only Christians and agnostics have participated thus far, but I'm awaiting more viewpoints.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:16:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

if I were still a Christian, which I stated I was not.



SO what are you?

Sgat12r5
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:57:45 PM EDT
IMO, masturbation carries the same moral implications as scratching an itch or drinking water when you're thirsty. As long as you don't masturbate in a way that scandalizes or offends others, or use it to deny your wife the attention she's entitled to, it's a moral non-issue. I think that the sin of lust involves something more than thinking that it'd be fun to boff Miss X or privately imagining what it would be like - something like trying to figure out how to get into her pants, or trying to do so. If merely noting a woman's desirability and thinking about why she's desirable constitutes lust, then being a post-pubertal male human is per se sinful over and above the basic sinfulness of all humanity.

As for birth control, I think that any means that relies on sloughing off fertilized embryos is probably sinful. I think that methods that prevent fertilization are not sinful, any more than is garden-variety dodging of opportunities God gives us - like letting fear keep us from making a business deal He puts in front of us, or staying in a crappy job because we don't have the courage to step out in faith to new employment.


YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:02:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Kinsey was an child molester abusive, self-idolizing, sexually incontinent freak and a thoroughgoing degenerate.

And you expect me to listen to Him instead of God??


Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:41:45 PM EDT
So what kinda Christians have VICKY SECRETS catalogs??
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:49:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrKrink:
So what kinda Christians have VICKY SECRETS catalogs??



AFAIK, most of the ones with decent eyesight. (No offense to brothers who see it differently - no pun intended.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:53:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 8:57:42 PM EDT by Andreuha]
Considering that I'm a 'free thinker' [okay, I've been raised with tradition from both Eastern Orthodox and Russo-Judeaism, two of the less-messed-up groups], so:

I masturbate within reason (considering I'm almost 20, five times a day may be a bit much nowadays, I try to limit it to three, sometimes, eerr, once in a while. Who am I kidding. Okay, I kid, once every few days to keep the plumbing clean).
I make damn sure to use birthcontrol all the time for obvious reasons (for someone in my age group!). To those unaware: because I there's no way in hell I wanna bring a kid into a shitty life (for now), or a bastard-child for that matter, or get an STD while I'm at it.

Edit: as for the sinning part of it, what can I say? I'm going straight to hell, no not pass go, do not collect (ugh, what to people get in E.O. heaven?)
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:56:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By MrKrink:
So what kinda Christians have VICKY SECRETS catalogs??



AFAIK, most of the ones with decent eyesight. (No offense to brothers who see it differently - no pun intended.



I had decent eyesight BEFORE the catalogues showed up.

Now I wear 3x reading glasses
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:16:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
Nice to see you must have done a lot of prior research in this area already to know the background of Kinsey!



Of course. Christians don't spend all day in log cabins with no electricity, you know....



Anyhow, I didn't know about the child molestation thing since I have long arrived at my own answers and no further research has been needed on my end. I was more interested in the validity of the argument that one should not feel guilty about masturbating and it can be physically and mentally destructive to overly restrain one's sexuality.



A good way to judge an arguement is to hear who it is coming from. When coming from someone like Kinsey, the arguement is already suspect.



Now, this isn't a free ticket to go around raping and/or picking up street hookers left and right. But regular sexual activity in general can indeed be important to overall well-being. I do feel I am more physically and mentally healthier today than 7 years ago when I was a Christian, and part of that is that I do not need to stress over all the "don't dos" of Christianity.



I don't stress over the don't do's of Christianity either. I don't stress about that guy that I really want to stab but cannot stab because God would smite me....

When you become a mature Christian that God has dealt with and worked on for a while, you become less and less worried by the "don'ts". Not because you are perfect, but after a while the will to evil in your life will not be the same.

There was a time, for instance, when something like pornography would appeal to me. But after much work from The Lord, it no longer has an appeal. In fact, what used to entice me I now find disgusting in the extreme. There was a time when drinking would have appealed to me.

When you GROW in Christianity and submit to the sanctifying work of The Holy Spirit, you aren't always tripping over the "don'ts" anymore.

Your problem is that you didn't seem to expect to have to put your flesh under subjection, and thus weren't prepared to fight that battle. If you are willing to have Christ as your master rather than allow your flesh to be your master, you can overcome your flesh and live a happy life with God.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:18:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I had decent eyesight BEFORE the catalogues showed up.

Now I wear 3x reading glasses



I have better than perfect eyesight.

Take a lesson, gentlemen....

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:04:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I had decent eyesight BEFORE the catalogues showed up.

Now I wear 3x reading glasses



I have better than perfect eyesight.

Take a lesson, gentlemen....




What? You wear gloves?




j/k
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:51:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:56:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 8:29:14 AM EDT by fish223]
To paraphrase my Rabbi, a Christian believes that things that feel good are sinful, and a Jew believes that things that feel good are a gift from G-d, but we don't deserve it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:15:45 AM EDT
If god didn't want you to masterbate he'd have made your arms shorter.
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