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Posted: 9/11/2005 3:08:22 PM EDT
Several threads have touched on this subject, but I want input on another angle.

One poster links to a story of women using the $2,000 Debit Card to purchase a designer purse. Other stories abound.

If anyone truly thinks that throwing money at these people is going to "fix" the problem, they are dreaming.

You could give all of them a million bucks, and in a year or so, they would be broke and on welfare again, or dead from a drug overdose.

Money is not their problem and giving them money isn't going to fix it.

And, before someone soils this thread, this is not about Race. The vast majority of the New Orleans folks are black, but this is not a race issue.

It is an "Entitlement" issue. And that covers all races.

The US has raised a generation of folks that think that they are "entitled" to certain things. The government needs to "look out for them" and "take care of them", and they are entitled to welfare so that they can sit on their butts and drink Heiniken.

I don't know all the answers, but I know part of the solution.

Welfare ought to stop. Period.

If someone wants money, they should have to work for it. If they are "unable" to do hard labor, then some agency should find them jobs that they can do with their limited physical capacity. If people are suffering from a natural catastrophy like this flood, good people should help them get back on their feet. But they should work for the help.

At a local shelter near here, they are asking for helpers to clean up the place and do light work. What about all those folks sitting on the cots and mashing their butts? Why can't they do something to earn the food they are given?

This wonderful country was founded by a self-reliant folk that asked only for freedom to be left alone to work for themselves.

We have seen many degenerate into believers in "Entitlements". We must take action before it is too late.

Okay, I've said my piece. Am I wrong?

(Please keep it within the COC. Thanks.)
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:09:27 PM EDT
Workfare.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:09:32 PM EDT
quick solution? Start a "refugee of truth" test.......
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:10:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
quick solution? Start a "refugee of truth" test.......



Already rejected that one. They won't fit in the box.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:20:44 PM EDT
No you are not wrong,
the only way you can fix the problem is to quit giving out free(gov) money and make those people work.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:20:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:22:41 PM EDT
End Welfare.

Next problem?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:22:54 PM EDT
Give them more money!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:24:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
quick solution? Start a "refugee of truth" test.......



Already rejected that one. They won't fit in the box.



Two words: BIGGER BOX
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:24:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:36:20 PM EDT
Zyklon-B
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:38:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
What are you going to say to the Michael Moore groupies, when they try to suggest that making poor people go to work fuels the cycle of violence?



As senseless as this statement is, it will surely be made by liberals.

They don't understand that work makes people proud of themsleves.

They presently have nothing to be proud of. That could change.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:42:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:44:39 PM EDT
I hate to say it, but with the current bias, it's not fixable.

We have created a permanant underclass, that expects, nay DEMANDS that they are entitled to a paycheck for doing nothing from the cradle to the grave.

I fear that the America that our forefathers dreamed of then crafted is a thing of the past

echo6
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:45:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:47:07 PM EDT by Schmeghead]
I wish you would concentrate more on how to fix the Illegal Immigrant problem and how to advance the position of our own citizens.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:48:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:48:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

You could give all of them a million bucks, and in a year or so, they would be broke and on welfare again, or dead from a drug overdose.



At least they would have a Benz parked in front of their project.


Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:48:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By echo6:
I hate to say it, but with the current bias, it's not fixable.

We have created a permanant underclass, that expects, nay DEMANDS that they are entitled to a paycheck for doing nothing from the cradle to the grave.

I fear that the America that our forefathers dreamed of then crafted is a thing of the past

echo6





I agree. The funny thing is hearing guys on this board talk about revolution or whatever when they try to take our guns, but the reality is these people would revolt far sooner if we cut off the welfare. Bet on it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:51:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:51:17 PM EDT
One Word: Sterilization
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:51:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:55:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:56:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WooDy_the_infidel:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

You could give all of them a million bucks, and in a year or so, they would be broke and on welfare again, or dead from a drug overdose.



At least they would have a Benz parked in front of their project.




I would have to respectfully disagree.

The Benz would have long since been sold to buy drugs.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:57:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By DOW:

Originally Posted By echo6:
I hate to say it, but with the current bias, it's not fixable.

We have created a permanant underclass, that expects, nay DEMANDS that they are entitled to a paycheck for doing nothing from the cradle to the grave.

I fear that the America that our forefathers dreamed of then crafted is a thing of the past

echo6





I agree. The funny thing is hearing guys on this board talk about revolution or whatever when they try to take our guns, but the reality is these people would revolt far sooner if we cut off the welfare. Bet on it.

People lament the influence of money in our culture, mainly because they do not understand how it works for bad and good.
What kind of revolution would you see from the former welfare slaves? Certainly none nearly so eloquent and effective as the American Revolution.



Certainly not. Sloppy, criminal behavior on a mass scale and rioting would describe what would happen IMHO. It would be an excuse to riot/rob/rape/burn/assault/victimize whomever the welfare class considered to be their "oppressors" This behavior would continue until they got their checks again.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:58:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:59:41 PM EDT by Schmeghead]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Schmeghead:
I wish you would concentrate more on how to fix the Illegal Immigrant problem and how to advance the position of our own citizens.


How to advance the position of our citizens is a decision best left to each one of them, wouldn't you say?



So, corporate welfare is more important than social welfare?

Give all the breaks to the richest and let the poorest fend for themselves?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:59:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 4:00:44 PM EDT by DOW]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
the welfare rats will not revolt. new orleans proved that.



I disagree. New Orleans was "relieved" so to speak a matter of days after the hurricane. Given slightly more time the welfare recipients would have rioted IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:00:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schmeghead:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Schmeghead:
I wish you would concentrate more on how to fix the Illegal Immigrant problem and how to advance the position of our own citizens.


How to advance the position of our citizens is a decision best left to each one of them, wouldn't you say?



So, corporate welfare is more important than social welfare?

Give all the breaks to the richest and let the poorest fend for themselves?



Thanks.

Anyone that uses the term "corporate welfare" has "outed" themselves.

Thanks, Comrade.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:06:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:06:37 PM EDT
I say put 'em all to work building the levees.
Keep the project running forever, anyone who wants welfare goes to the levee. Pay them a decent wage too, make them proud of themselves and the good they are doing.
Bulid those levees so fucking big a Cat12 storm couldnt bust them. Build them triple deep and triple high!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:10:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:13:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schmeghead:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Schmeghead:
I wish you would concentrate more on how to fix the Illegal Immigrant problem and how to advance the position of our own citizens.


How to advance the position of our citizens is a decision best left to each one of them, wouldn't you say?



So, corporate welfare is more important than social welfare?

Give all the breaks to the richest and let the poorest fend for themselves?



Want to explain exactly what "corprate welfare" is? Want to thnk about where all your "poorest" would be if the "Rich People" were not paying them to sit home and get their welefare checks?

Schmeg, Do yourself and the rest of us a favor and read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ann Rand. When you finish the book think about what you have just read.

Then think about how our current society relates to the one in the book.

It might just open your eyes.

echo6

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:13:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
I say put 'em all to work building the levees.
Keep the project running forever, anyone who wants welfare goes to the levee. Pay them a decent wage too, make them proud of themselves and the good they are doing.
Bulid those levees so fucking big a Cat12 storm couldnt bust them. Build them triple deep and triple high!

What's the average airspeed velocity of a Cat12 hurricane?



Really bad!!!!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:16:20 PM EDT
Here is how "Corprate Welfare" and taxes work in terms everyone should be able to understand


Today's Economic Lesson in Taxation


Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:



* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.



* The fifth would pay $1.

* The sixth would pay $3.

* The seventh $7.

* The eighth $12.

* The ninth $18.

* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.



"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So, now dinner for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.


So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.



But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?



The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being 'PAID' to eat their meal.



So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.


And so:

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

* The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).


Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.


"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10!"


"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"


"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"


"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"


The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up



echo6
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:22:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By echo6:
Here is how "Corprate Welfare" and taxes work in terms everyone should be able to understand


echo6



Good explination, except the first few would actually be paid to eat their dinner (earned income tax credit).
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:24:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:25:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By echo6:
Here is how "Corprate Welfare" and taxes work in terms everyone should be able to understand


echo6



Good explination, except the first few would actually be paid to eat their dinner (earned income tax credit).



This gives me heartburn. (Because it's true.)
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:31:37 PM EDT
Workfare would be the best solution for all able bodied persons.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:33:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ClayP:
Workfare would be the best solution for all able bodied persons.



I fully agree.

But should it be administered by the Federal Gooberment?

If not, how do we do it?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:35:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:49:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
I say put 'em all to work building the levees.
Keep the project running forever, anyone who wants welfare goes to the levee. Pay them a decent wage too, make them proud of themselves and the good they are doing.
Bulid those levees so fucking big a Cat12 storm couldnt bust them. Build them triple deep and triple high!



This would work if, and only if, those that still refused to work had their kids permanently and irrevocably taken from them, and allow them to literally starve to death on the street.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:49:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
www.darlington.ac.uk/images/plate.gif



"A Modest Proposal".
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
quick solution? Start a "refugee of truth" test.......



Already rejected that one. They won't fit in the box.



Then get a bigger box!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:55:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
I say put 'em all to work building the levees.
Keep the project running forever, anyone who wants welfare goes to the levee. Pay them a decent wage too, make them proud of themselves and the good they are doing.
Bulid those levees so fucking big a Cat12 storm couldnt bust them. Build them triple deep and triple high!

What's the average airspeed velocity of a Cat12 hurricane?



Atlantic or Pacific tropical cyclone?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:57:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

This would work if, and only if, those that still refused to work had their kids permanently and irrevocably taken from them, and allow them to literally starve to death on the street.



And, therein lies the problem.

Can you imagine the howling of the left as these lazy bums started starving?

It will never happen.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:59:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 5:09:44 PM EDT by Bobby_the_Hun]
The " Refugee " Problem was always there, way before HK (Hurricane Katrina) showed up. I'm afraid society will never be rid of the welfare class, they're the democrats' cream of the crop voters.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:06:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
www.darlington.ac.uk/images/plate.gif




hmmm hadn't thought of that. i don't know that they would taste that good though.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:08:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
www.darlington.ac.uk/images/plate.gif




hmmm hadn't thought of that. i don't know that they would taste that good though.



Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:12:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun:
The " Refugee " Problem was always there, way before HK (Hurricane Katrina) showed up. I'm afraid society will never be rid of the welfare class, they're the democrats' cream of the crop voters.



That is the ultimate irony.

Democrats pretend to "love" the poor.

The truth is that they want to keep them in poverty so that they can exploit them and assure their votes.

Their actions show that they actually "hate" them, and do not truly care for their well-being.


Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:38:49 PM EDT
I don't care where the go as long as they get out of the country and quit wasting MY money.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:46:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sig223:
I don't care where the go as long as they get out of the country and quit wasting MY money.



Sorry.

They're not going anywhere.

And they are going to stay on the Federal Gobberment tit as long as they can.
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