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Posted: 12/7/2018 9:02:04 PM EST
I have been an instructor with my agency for about 12 years, and I do a fair amount of teaching. Outside of a few of our SWAT guys, I doubt any of our instructors have been to anything besides a basic NRA LE firearms instructor training course. While I believe these are good courses, they always seemed a little...dated to me. We teach nothing but slow and methodical pieing around corners, except for "move to contact/active shooter" scenarios. I never gave it much thought, as that's what I was always taught, but the more I act as a bad guy role player, the more I see that even when the student is doing the technique correctly, I will most likely be able to shoot them (or at least their gun) before they ever get a shot on me. I've seen video of some folks who do their corners with much more speed--more of a pop-out, generally with two guys. While they lose the protection of the corner, they gain a lot of "surprise," and can flood the hallway they are entering with twice the number of guns than a normal pieing technique. What do you all use and prefer?

Link Posted: 12/7/2018 9:45:43 PM EST
That corner isn’t protection from someone who is willing to fight. Plus, trying to be slow and sneaky usually just ends up with your bad guy hearing and seeing you coming.
Link Posted: 12/7/2018 10:01:37 PM EST
If you don't slice the pie standing back from the doorway, you will always give away your location by having your weapon farther out in front of you than you can see. We try to practice bringing your weapon back a little bit so that you aren't giving yourself away in that situation.

I've also been the "lying in wait ambusher" and if you are truly dedicated and prepared, there is almost no way, barring a tactical mirrior, pole-cam, or small drone, that you won't have a chance to get a first shot on target when a team enters. This is where proper use of shields can be a huge advantage.

We have also started using a small drone for indoors use which can precede a team down a hallway or into a room, although not obviously used for a stealth entry, it does give you an idea of what may be in a room before you go in.

If your department has a lot more money than ours there are always the ball cams or roving robot cams too.
Link Posted: 12/12/2018 1:21:55 AM EST
Get back off the corner

Tuck your shit in... Laterally and in front of you

Choose another height than typical. Very high or very low.

Invest in the teeny survival mirror an stick it in a pocket until needed.

Test changes with airsoft / sims
Link Posted: 12/12/2018 12:35:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Razzman1:
...What do you all use and prefer?

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the speed used will be generally dictated by the size of the space they're working in (or to) and the number of team members available. it also depends on internal procedures

after checking the temperature on the situation, the leader will call for how they want it done. if your organization allows moving past open doors or unsecured spaces, then visually clearing those spaces increases speed. most don't allow this though, occupying that space is typically called for, but slows things down

unless your team is versed and rehearsed in deliberate structure and room entry i would recommend slow until engaged

visually clear as much of a room as possible prior to entry, sometimes that means moving past the door to look deep into the corners closest to the door

inexperienced team members may get fixated on the door, just make sure external security is maintained

not willing to share more past this without exchanging introductions
Link Posted: 12/12/2018 1:21:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2018 1:21:59 PM EST by TxRabbitBane]
Dunno, but you should have seen the impromptu course in house clearing my teenaged son got one night... this is what you get when you drink with cops.

(I got to be the bad guy - “bang bang bang, you’re dead for not checking the corner)

Oops didn’t see BOS- please disregard (my bad)
Link Posted: 12/12/2018 10:09:09 PM EST
Dynamic aggressive take the corner and hold it same as room entry. No different from coming back out of a room same principal or clearing a T intersection. Pie the corners is kind of old school. We go direct to threat using pass through method bypass rooms we dont care about. Besides if ur clearing a room by your self your pretty fucked anyways.
Link Posted: 12/14/2018 9:13:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2018 9:14:27 AM EST by kennymc80]
Link Posted: 12/14/2018 11:39:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By kennymc80:
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it just isn't worth it sometimes
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