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How Desantis Blew It (Page 7 of 20)
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Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:11:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: killstick_engaged] [#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SavedByTheBlood:

There is a reason he didn’t lock her up.

Click To View Spoiler

https://people.com/thmb/8NwosJfJ5I0HhnsUlzgKWjgE6Sk=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(399x0:401x2)/donald-hillary-800-4c2497660dc844f3a6962d38eb424ffb.jpg
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this


onlytrump dumbasses in this thread are basically going 'ITS HIS TURN' just like the other side did with that pos hillary



DeSantis didnt blow anything, he threw in his hat against a trump who lost to a pedo joe that didn't even campaign
PWS
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:12:04 PM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SavedByTheBlood:

You realize Arfcom gd isn’t a good metric to determine how a candidate is performing correct? Lots of trolls, fringe weirdos and mouth breathers posting here.
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Well thankfully we have a few intellectually and genetically superior individuals such as yourself here to counter the Trump troglodytes present.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:29:30 PM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Low_Country:


Ok, I'll make it easy for ya then.

If re-elected, what do you honestly believe a lame duck Trump administration accomplishes?
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Legislative agenda depends on the congress.  But as for the executive branch, I think we'll see a massive culling of the burrowed political operatives put in place by the Obama admin and likely by the Biden admin.  We'd see massive deregulation. We'd see a massive change in the regulatory agencies.
   
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:37:50 PM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gspointer:

Well thankfully we have a few intellectually and genetically superior individuals such as yourself here to counter the Trump troglodytes present.
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You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:44:12 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:

It's called marketing and DeSantis needs new people badly.  Sure it is juvenile humor from Trump but it grabs attention and people notice it will reading the message.  In other words it is effective, shows boldness, and shows confidence. It's a 1-2 punch against DeSantis.  Where is DeSantis's viral marketing?  You could actually post that in this thread instead of just complaining.  Show me a video which shows a post-covid Ron being bold, confident, or even entertaining.  

DeSantis's Twitter/X feed is nothing more than him giving interviews...ie being very boring.  That's it, that is his whole feed, just his voice droning on and on.  Nothing interesting, nothing to grab people's attention, nothing to connect with people, just him talking.  Trump often speaks in a way that sounds like he is speaking to the people.  DeSantis "deliver remarks" where it sounds like he is just saying things to whoever might here.  One approach is more personal and creates a better connection than the other.  That is why his marketing team needs to be fired.


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So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:49:45 PM EST
[#6]
What a bunch of pointless drama. May as well be a TV show. If last (s)election wasn't even to sway people away from voting, nothing ever will. I get it though, it's addicting entertainment, especially when you're living in la la land, thinking your input/ vote actually matters.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 2:55:50 PM EST
[#7]
Honestly one of the top three reasons I consider DeSantis a RINO is his constant blaming of Trump for the failure to build “The Wall”….

Knowing full well 100% of the Republican establishment & RINO’s worked hand in hand partnership with the Democrats/Swamp to kill it at every opportunity. They are every bit as guilty as Democrats.

Yet DeSantis lists not building it as a Trump failure.

It’s a blatant lie. We all know it.

I hate this worse than Bootgate or pretending he was “Anti-Lockdown” from COVID
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:01:33 PM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KTMmx001:
Honestly one of the top three reasons I consider DeSantis a RINO is his constant blaming of Trump for the failure to build “The Wall”….

Knowing full well 100% of the Republican establishment & RINO’s worked hand in hand partnership with the Democrats/Swamp to kill it at every opportunity. They are every bit as guilty as Democrats.

Yet DeSantis lists not building it as a Trump failure.

It’s a blatant lie. We all know it.

I hate this worse than Bootgate or pretending he was “Anti-Lockdown” from COVID
View Quote


Didn't Trump run on his ability to make deals as well?
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:07:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: fender_fella] [#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Low_Country:


Clearly, you are correct.  At least as far as the electorate seems to believe they have a personal connection. Which kinda makes the notion of an 80 year old billionaire, and lifelong progressive, as the face of the GOP quite the headscratcher.
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Instead of doubting that some people connect with Trump, why aren't you asking why Desantis doesn't?  Because he really doesn't.  He is not an appealing candidate.

There have been many many great thinkers who would have been great leaders, except they were "unelectable".  And yeah I get that Florida loves him.  Texas pretty much loves Abbott.  
Abbott is also unelectable as POTUS.  Same difference.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:15:28 PM EST
[#10]
I honestly shouldn't be jumping into these things, but I love fighting and that fact is mostly why I'm the person I am. While I definitely lean in one direction, I can certainly understand both sides.

Really I think all I should do is basically provide what guidance and assistance than I can, given that I've already stated my position and reasoning previously. Drama here isn't going to change anything, and while I'd prefer a particular path for the future all routes provide certain..opportunities.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:16:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: thunderw21] [#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KTMmx001:
Honestly one of the top three reasons I consider DeSantis a RINO is his constant blaming of Trump for the failure to build “The Wall”….

Knowing full well 100% of the Republican establishment & RINO’s worked hand in hand partnership with the Democrats/Swamp to kill it at every opportunity. They are every bit as guilty as Democrats.

Yet DeSantis lists not building it as a Trump failure.

It’s a blatant lie. We all know it.

I hate this worse than Bootgate or pretending he was “Anti-Lockdown” from COVID
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KTMmx001:
Honestly one of the top three reasons I consider DeSantis a RINO is his constant blaming of Trump for the failure to build “The Wall”….

Knowing full well 100% of the Republican establishment & RINO’s worked hand in hand partnership with the Democrats/Swamp to kill it at every opportunity. They are every bit as guilty as Democrats.

Yet DeSantis lists not building it as a Trump failure.

It’s a blatant lie. We all know it.

I hate this worse than Bootgate or pretending he was “Anti-Lockdown” from COVID


It's not like Trump said he going to build the wall or anything. Perhaps he should have looked into the complications of it before making campaign promises about it. He even said it's not difficult to do. So either he was lying when he said that or he was inept; pick your poison.

"We're going to build the wall, it's going to be built. It's not even, believe it or not, it's not even a difficult thing to do.


Trump: 'We will build a wall'
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:18:28 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:25:51 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?
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Yes. If it's about nothing but the show, the bombast, the entertainment, the rhetorical WWF chair attacks, "owning the libs," cartoon trading cards, and basically everything else that screams Idiocracy, then that's Trump's wheelhouse.

I personally know nobody in real life who wants any of that, even among those who were diehard Trump supporters before. Only one is still a supporter.

Those people exist. They have always existed. But either this society is that far fallen (possible) or the polls are fake. We're two months out from the first event, and I'd bet a few mags that the final polls will significantly overestimate Trump's actual performance even after they "tighten" in the final days.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:32:55 PM EST
[#14]
Ron never had it to blow in the first place. I've maintained from the beginning, I like Ron and would have zero problem voting for him. But  he has the personality of a doorknob. Has zero charisma.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:34:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: thunderw21] [#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FS7:

Yes. If it's about nothing but the show, the bombast, the entertainment, the rhetorical WWF chair attacks, "owning the libs," cartoon trading cards, and basically everything else that screams Idiocracy, then that's Trump's wheelhouse.

I personally know nobody in real life who wants any of that, even among those who were diehard Trump supporters before. Only one is still a supporter.

Those people exist. They have always existed. But either this society is that far fallen (possible) or the polls are fake. We're two months out from the first event, and I'd bet a few mags that the final polls will significantly overestimate Trump's actual performance even after they "tighten" in the final days.
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I don't disagree. There is no energy on the ground here in Iowa for Trump, unlike previous elections. He may or may not win the Iowa caucus, but if he does it won't be as big of a win as the poll-quoting Trumpsters are saying.

Here's the thing people don't know about the Iowa caucus: it's a time-consuming event that takes dedication to attend. You don't just go and vote and you're out in 15 minutes; it takes at least 2 hours of your evening on a frigid January night. Tens of thousands of people gather together in gyms, churches, and schools across the state and make speeches about why they're supporting a certain candidate. After the speeches comes the vote, which is counted in front of everyone who's interested.  

The 2016 Iowa Republican caucus was dominated by dedicated Evangelical voters, who are breaking for DeSantis this time around (along with young families). I know of several previously die-hard Trump supporters who are now going for DeSantis.

So I think it's going to be an interesting caucus and primary for sure.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:39:39 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ranging-by-zipcode:




Don't worry I will help you

You are at stage two and I am here for you




There are different stages of grief  and we should be here to support our members  at this  difficult time .

They are at the first stage now.



The five stages – denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance
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Originally Posted By ranging-by-zipcode:
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

Creepy homoerotic foot fetishism, hookers, and golden showers.

The Trump 2024 campaign in a nutshell.

If that doesn't look like winning, I don't know what does.




Don't worry I will help you

You are at stage two and I am here for you




There are different stages of grief  and we should be here to support our members  at this  difficult time .

They are at the first stage now.



The five stages – denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance

My goodness you are horrible.lol Thank you for the smile.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:46:28 PM EST
[#17]
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Originally Posted By SWIRE:

That applies to any politician, not a single one of them cares about the little people.  They will do what their big donors demand of them.  The electorate is stupid and lazy.  The ones that care and are involved still just count as 1 vote and are greatly offset by the number of uneducated voters.
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Couldn't agree more.

I used to believe that an unqualified franchise was a demonstration of American exceptionalism.  I don't feel that way any more.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:50:38 PM EST
[#18]
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Originally Posted By fender_fella:


Instead of doubting that some people connect with Trump, why aren't you asking why Desantis doesn't?  Because he really doesn't.  He is not an appealing candidate.

There have been many many great thinkers who would have been great leaders, except they were "unelectable".  And yeah I get that Florida loves him.  Texas pretty much loves Abbott.  
Abbott is also unelectable as POTUS.  Same difference.
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I watched a couple of the debates.  He might be a little bland, but I don't really have a problem with his personality.  That said, personality is far down the list of criteria I consider important in elected officials.  But I guess that puts me in the minority.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:52:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: SWIRE] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?
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Originally Posted By thunderw21:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:

It's called marketing and DeSantis needs new people badly.  Sure it is juvenile humor from Trump but it grabs attention and people notice it will reading the message.  In other words it is effective, shows boldness, and shows confidence. It's a 1-2 punch against DeSantis.  Where is DeSantis's viral marketing?  You could actually post that in this thread instead of just complaining.  Show me a video which shows a post-covid Ron being bold, confident, or even entertaining.  

DeSantis's Twitter/X feed is nothing more than him giving interviews...ie being very boring.  That's it, that is his whole feed, just his voice droning on and on.  Nothing interesting, nothing to grab people's attention, nothing to connect with people, just him talking.  Trump often speaks in a way that sounds like he is speaking to the people.  DeSantis "deliver remarks" where it sounds like he is just saying things to whoever might here.  One approach is more personal and creates a better connection than the other.  That is why his marketing team needs to be fired.





So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?

The polls are never correct.  Almost all are highly manipulated to push a narrative.  I have other posts on this but short story is Emerson College did an October Suprise poll showing the Kentucky Republican Governor candidate down by 18 points, to cut off all his fundraising as no one is going to donate to someone with no chance.  Then a month later the day early voting started, Emerson College, the same company,  released a poll claiming it was a dead heat because they didn't want Democrats to sit it out due to their previous fake poll.  So never even slightly believe a poll.

As to your questions voters crave attention and want to feel a connection, first.  Think of it as dating.  Looks is only about 5% of the criteria for a good mate but it is the first 5%.  If they don't attract your attention then they are nothing to to you.  Same with voters.  They need that emotional hook/attachment to get drawn in.  

Then most will just go with the guy in the lead, the guy saying what they want to hear, or the guy giving them the most stuff for free.  Actual, single issue voters (of any issue) are in the single digits.  Most people just don't care to be engaged in the politics and go with the flow.  DeSantis is a good example, his record on policy is better than Trump's...unfortunately to most people it does not matter.

Right now I'm in favor of Trump being a strong candidate and DeSantis being a strong candidate.  Competition is needed to strengthen either of them.  We also need 2 strong candidates incase one ends up in jail or worse or Biden steps out and Newsom is the replacement.  Working to destroy either of these two is not in our best interest.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:53:13 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Low_Country:
That said, personality is far down the list of criteria I consider important in elected officials.  But I guess that puts me in the minority.
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I think most people just recognize that personality is a big deal when it comes to getting elected.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 3:59:23 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Low_Country:


Couldn't agree more.

I used to believe that an unqualified franchise was a demonstration of American exceptionalism.  I don't feel that way any more.
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Originally Posted By Low_Country:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:

That applies to any politician, not a single one of them cares about the little people.  They will do what their big donors demand of them.  The electorate is stupid and lazy.  The ones that care and are involved still just count as 1 vote and are greatly offset by the number of uneducated voters.


Couldn't agree more.

I used to believe that an unqualified franchise was a demonstration of American exceptionalism.  I don't feel that way any more.

How people acted during Covid really proved that point to me.  Blind ignorance out of fear that they wanted to force on others.  When it comes to politicians it is just willful ignorance on multiple fronts and then going with the flow.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 4:07:06 PM EST
[#22]
Ron did not blow it , he was never really in it.
He will likely take 2nd place if he makes it to the primary which is OK.


Whoever advised him to go head to head with Trump is pretty stupid.
Almost as stupid as people that think he could win the WH and not make it thru the primary but that's another topic.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 4:23:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: FS7] [#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thunderw21:


I don't disagree. There is no energy on the ground here in Iowa for Trump, unlike previous elections. He may or may not win the Iowa caucus, but if he does it won't be as big of a win as the poll-quoting Trumpsters are saying.

Here's the thing people don't know about the Iowa caucus: it's a time-consuming event that takes dedication to attend. You don't just go and vote and you're out in 15 minutes; it takes at least 2 hours of your evening on a frigid January night. Tens of thousands of people gather together in gyms, churches, and schools across the state and make speeches about why they're supporting a certain candidate. After the speeches comes the vote, which is counted in front of everyone who's interested.  

The 2016 Iowa Republican caucus was dominated by dedicated Evangelical voters, who are breaking for DeSantis this time around (along with young families). I know of several previously die-hard Trump supporters who are now going for DeSantis.

So I think it's going to be an interesting caucus and primary for sure.
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In a way this argues for the original point, that it's just all about the show. What I know of the Iowa caucuses is what you describe - that requires participation, time, thoughtful discussion, exchange of ideas and so on. In other words, the antithesis of mean tweets and owning the libs. Iowa is not much of a bellwether, probably because the process is more thoughtful than a simple popular vote.

That said, that was true in 2016, and Trump performed well. But the lack of energy is probably because I can imagine the impassioned speeches made then. None of those could be made now, or at least they couldn't be made in any convincing way. They would be countered with "why didn't he do that before?" or something similar. The energy is gone. It's not new any more.

Here in Virginia, things are different. We have the completely foreign land of Northern Virginia, which ranges from dark blue to light blue. The rest of the state, excluding the cities, is pretty solid red. I am in a red-leaning suburb or exurb, and we had a *ton* of Trump signs in past cycles. My girlfriend lives an hour away in farm country, and Trump signs were even more ubiquitous. There are none now. Not one. In our travels to surrounding areas, mostly to enjoy wine, we go through a lot of farm and rural areas. The only people left flying Trump flags are those with giant murals on their meth shacks, Confederate flags on 30 foot poles, and so on. Only the real diehards. That's not even 5% of what it was. Maybe not even 1%. The polls make no sense because you don't see yard signs. You don't hear people talking about it. There is zero energy. But to be fair, there is zero energy for any presidential candidate here. Virginia being what it is, I suspect the RPV would strongly favor DeSantis. Youngkin won by very, very specifically distancing himself from Trump. The red-leaning population centers of this state, where I am, for example, lost energy for Trump after 2020. It was still there, but it was gone by early 2021. And it only got worse.

I see the polls, and it's just so different from observable reality I have no idea what to say about it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 4:29:45 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FS7:

Yes. If it's about nothing but the show, the bombast, the entertainment, the rhetorical WWF chair attacks, "owning the libs," cartoon trading cards, and basically everything else that screams Idiocracy, then that's Trump's wheelhouse.

I personally know nobody in real life who wants any of that, even among those who were diehard Trump supporters before. Only one is still a supporter.

Those people exist. They have always existed. But either this society is that far fallen (possible) or the polls are fake. We're two months out from the first event, and I'd bet a few mags that the final polls will significantly overestimate Trump's actual performance even after they "tighten" in the final days.
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Originally Posted By FS7:
Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?

Yes. If it's about nothing but the show, the bombast, the entertainment, the rhetorical WWF chair attacks, "owning the libs," cartoon trading cards, and basically everything else that screams Idiocracy, then that's Trump's wheelhouse.

I personally know nobody in real life who wants any of that, even among those who were diehard Trump supporters before. Only one is still a supporter.

Those people exist. They have always existed. But either this society is that far fallen (possible) or the polls are fake. We're two months out from the first event, and I'd bet a few mags that the final polls will significantly overestimate Trump's actual performance even after they "tighten" in the final days.

That stuff was good for morale, being cool and funny definitely keeps peoples's spirits up. "Rizz" as they say is absolutely important, and useful for keeping a team motivated and active.  But it isn't enough; eventually you have to actually execute on a vision, one way or another.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 4:41:14 PM EST
[#25]
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Originally Posted By thunderw21:


It's not like Trump said he going to build the wall or anything. Perhaps he should have looked into the complications of it before making campaign promises about it. He even said it's not difficult to do. So either he was lying when he said that or he was inept; pick your poison.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_7hZOdsxo
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Originally Posted By thunderw21:
Originally Posted By KTMmx001:
Honestly one of the top three reasons I consider DeSantis a RINO is his constant blaming of Trump for the failure to build “The Wall”….

Knowing full well 100% of the Republican establishment & RINO’s worked hand in hand partnership with the Democrats/Swamp to kill it at every opportunity. They are every bit as guilty as Democrats.

Yet DeSantis lists not building it as a Trump failure.

It’s a blatant lie. We all know it.

I hate this worse than Bootgate or pretending he was “Anti-Lockdown” from COVID


It's not like Trump said he going to build the wall or anything. Perhaps he should have looked into the complications of it before making campaign promises about it. He even said it's not difficult to do. So either he was lying when he said that or he was inept; pick your poison.

"We're going to build the wall, it's going to be built. It's not even, believe it or not, it's not even a difficult thing to do.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_7hZOdsxo

My favorite part was when it went from, "Mexico is going to pay for the wall!", and people seriously believing it: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Why-Would-Mexico-Agree-to-Pay-for-Trump-s-Wall-/5-1824381/

To a GoFundMe to pay for it 2 years later with people here actually dumb enough to send money: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Build-the-wall-gofundme-now-with-link/5-2176579/

To Steve Bannon being jailed for embezzling wall funds 2 years after that: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Breaking-Steve-Bannon-arrested/5-2360582/

And now Trump calling anyone who seriously thought he was going to make Mexico pay for the wall idiots.

Link Posted: 11/20/2023 4:43:52 PM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FS7:

In a way this argues for the original point, that it's just all about the show. What I know of the Iowa caucuses is what you describe - that requires participation, time, thoughtful discussion, exchange of ideas and so on. In other words, the antithesis of mean tweets and owning the libs. Iowa is not much of a bellwether, probably because the process is more thoughtful than a simple popular vote.

That said, that was true in 2016, and Trump performed well. But the lack of energy is probably because I can imagine the impassioned speeches made then. None of those could be made now, or at least they couldn't be made in any convincing way. They would be countered with "why didn't he do that before?" or something similar. The energy is gone. It's not new any more.

Here in Virginia, things are different. We have the completely foreign land of Northern Virginia, which ranges from dark blue to light blue. The rest of the state, excluding the cities, is pretty solid red. I am in a red-leaning suburb or exurb, and we had a *ton* of Trump signs in past cycles. My girlfriend lives an hour away in farm country, and Trump signs were even more ubiquitous. There are none now. Not one. In our travels to surrounding areas, mostly to enjoy wine, we go through a lot of farm and rural areas. The only people left flying Trump flags are those with giant murals on their meth shacks, Confederate flags on 30 foot poles, and so on. Only the real diehards. That's not even 5% of what it was. Maybe not even 1%. The polls make no sense because you don't see yard signs. You don't hear people talking about it. There is zero energy. But to be fair, there is zero energy for any presidential candidate here. Virginia being what it is, I suspect the RPV would strongly favor DeSantis. Youngkin won by very, very specifically distancing himself from Trump. The red-leaning population centers of this state, where I am, for example, lost energy for Trump after 2020. It was still there, but it was gone by early 2021. And it only got worse.

I see the polls, and it's just so different from observable reality I have no idea what to say about it.
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Originally Posted By FS7:
Originally Posted By thunderw21:


I don't disagree. There is no energy on the ground here in Iowa for Trump, unlike previous elections. He may or may not win the Iowa caucus, but if he does it won't be as big of a win as the poll-quoting Trumpsters are saying.

Here's the thing people don't know about the Iowa caucus: it's a time-consuming event that takes dedication to attend. You don't just go and vote and you're out in 15 minutes; it takes at least 2 hours of your evening on a frigid January night. Tens of thousands of people gather together in gyms, churches, and schools across the state and make speeches about why they're supporting a certain candidate. After the speeches comes the vote, which is counted in front of everyone who's interested.  

The 2016 Iowa Republican caucus was dominated by dedicated Evangelical voters, who are breaking for DeSantis this time around (along with young families). I know of several previously die-hard Trump supporters who are now going for DeSantis.

So I think it's going to be an interesting caucus and primary for sure.

In a way this argues for the original point, that it's just all about the show. What I know of the Iowa caucuses is what you describe - that requires participation, time, thoughtful discussion, exchange of ideas and so on. In other words, the antithesis of mean tweets and owning the libs. Iowa is not much of a bellwether, probably because the process is more thoughtful than a simple popular vote.

That said, that was true in 2016, and Trump performed well. But the lack of energy is probably because I can imagine the impassioned speeches made then. None of those could be made now, or at least they couldn't be made in any convincing way. They would be countered with "why didn't he do that before?" or something similar. The energy is gone. It's not new any more.

Here in Virginia, things are different. We have the completely foreign land of Northern Virginia, which ranges from dark blue to light blue. The rest of the state, excluding the cities, is pretty solid red. I am in a red-leaning suburb or exurb, and we had a *ton* of Trump signs in past cycles. My girlfriend lives an hour away in farm country, and Trump signs were even more ubiquitous. There are none now. Not one. In our travels to surrounding areas, mostly to enjoy wine, we go through a lot of farm and rural areas. The only people left flying Trump flags are those with giant murals on their meth shacks, Confederate flags on 30 foot poles, and so on. Only the real diehards. That's not even 5% of what it was. Maybe not even 1%. The polls make no sense because you don't see yard signs. You don't hear people talking about it. There is zero energy. But to be fair, there is zero energy for any presidential candidate here. Virginia being what it is, I suspect the RPV would strongly favor DeSantis. Youngkin won by very, very specifically distancing himself from Trump. The red-leaning population centers of this state, where I am, for example, lost energy for Trump after 2020. It was still there, but it was gone by early 2021. And it only got worse.

I see the polls, and it's just so different from observable reality I have no idea what to say about it.
I think we're in a position where the regime /cathedral/deep state/ whatever you want to call it has convinced itself that Trump is the sole problem, and that once he's gone their problems are over. This is sort of an cope inversion of Carlyle's "great man" theory of history.

For it to make sense however, you'd have to pretend the tea party never happened. The reality is the factors driving popular discontent aren't going away and aren't being fixed, so even tossing Trump in prison won't save them. Someone else will just come along more dedicated and with the warning that this game is for all the marbles, meanwhile the existing elites are even more bled of legitimacy and credibility.


Link Posted: 11/20/2023 4:57:31 PM EST
[#27]
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

My favorite part was when it went from, "Mexico is going to pay for the wall!", and people seriously believing it: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Why-Would-Mexico-Agree-to-Pay-for-Trump-s-Wall-/5-1824381/

To a GoFundMe to pay for it 2 years later with people here actually dumb enough to send money: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Build-the-wall-gofundme-now-with-link/5-2176579/

To Steve Bannon being jailed for embezzling wall funds 2 years after that: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Breaking-Steve-Bannon-arrested/5-2360582/

And now Trump calling anyone who seriously thought he was going to make Mexico pay for the wall idiots.

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Trump presidency in a nutshell.  But hey, he's got a great personality.  Super electable.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 5:31:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: FS7] [#28]
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Originally Posted By eesmith:

That stuff was good for morale, being cool and funny definitely keeps peoples's spirits up. "Rizz" as they say is absolutely important, and useful for keeping a team motivated and active.  But it isn't enough; eventually you have to actually execute on a vision, one way or another.
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Hence why many of us think Trump is such a losing proposition. It's like getting back together with your ex after the relationship failed. You know what you're getting, and it isn't very good.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 6:28:37 PM EST
[#29]
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Originally Posted By thunderw21:


It's not like Trump said he going to build the wall or anything. Perhaps he should have looked into the complications of it before making campaign promises about it. He even said it's not difficult to do. So either he was lying when he said that or he was inept; pick your poison.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_7hZOdsxo
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The Republican establishment/RINO’s should be ashamed of their treason, not bragging about it.

It’s not his fault his own party betrayed him & America.


Link Posted: 11/20/2023 6:50:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: Low_Country] [#30]
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Originally Posted By KTMmx001:


The Republican establishment/RINO’s should be ashamed of their treason, not bragging about it.

It’s not his fault his own party betrayed him & America.


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We don’t elect dictators.

There are 535 members of congress, all representing different constituencies, who have made their own campaign promises and who have their own legislative priorities.  They don’t have to line up blindly in lock step with anybody.  And remember that congress controls the funding.

If the president wishes to pursue pet issue funding or a tailored legislative agenda, you have to work at it. Allocate your political capital wisely, deal, compromise. Trump ran on being a deal maker - somebody who could parlay his business acumen into wins for conservatives and for our country.  The reality showed him entirely incapable.

If he was going to throw gun owners under the bus, he could have at least asked Feinstein for some border wall funding in exchange.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:00:53 PM EST
[#31]
Its pretty clear why republicans are losing. We cant agree on anything and the democrats will walk off a cliff in unison.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:11:26 PM EST
[#32]
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Originally Posted By killstick_engaged:



this


onlytrump dumbasses in this thread are basically going 'ITS HIS TURN' just like the other side did with that pos hillary



DeSantis didnt blow anything, he threw in his hat against a trump who lost to a pedo joe that didn't even campaign
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Now we are “trump dumbass’s” cool,thx!
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:30:20 PM EST
[#33]
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Originally Posted By Dumak:



Legislative agenda depends on the congress.  But as for the executive branch, I think we'll see a massive culling of the burrowed political operatives put in place by the Obama admin and likely by the Biden admin.  We'd see massive deregulation. We'd see a massive change in the regulatory agencies.
   
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Since Trump didn't cull jack shit last time, what make you think he'll cull anything this time?  The only thing you're going to see is clownshoes while Trumps stabs his own supporters in the back, all while acting shocked that the rare appointee who supports the Constitution is resigning.

He will have two years, maybe, with a GOP House and Senate, which means nothing will happen.  Maybe.....just maybe, the GOP will hold the Senate after Trump fucks the House into Democrat hands so we don't get a truly massive spending bill and a semiauto and mag ban.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:33:34 PM EST
[#34]
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Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?
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That's an accurate statement.   About half the GOP aren't fiscal or social conservatives, they are populists who think supporting Trump will stick it to Big Gov.

Unfortunately for Trump, the other half of the GOP ARE fiscal and/or social conservatives, who 100% reject his ideology on 2A, the Constitution, the economy, wokeism and acting like the adult in the room.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:34:26 PM EST
[#35]
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Originally Posted By FS7:

What descriptor would you use for people who think the Space Force set a years-long trap with watermarked ballots to catch all the bad guys in the act and ultimately reinstall Trump after a brief period of martial law?
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Holy shit, is that a real conspiracy theory the Q-tard brigade had?
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:37:10 PM EST
[#36]
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Originally Posted By jwr6:


That's an accurate statement.   About half the GOP aren't fiscal or social conservatives, they are populists who think supporting Trump will stick it to Big Gov.

Unfortunately for Trump, the other half of the GOP ARE fiscal and/or social conservatives, who 100% reject his ideology on 2A, the Constitution, the economy, wokeism and acting like the adult in the room.
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Originally Posted By jwr6:
Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?


That's an accurate statement.   About half the GOP aren't fiscal or social conservatives, they are populists who think supporting Trump will stick it to Big Gov.

Unfortunately for Trump, the other half of the GOP ARE fiscal and/or social conservatives, who 100% reject his ideology on 2A, the Constitution, the economy, wokeism and acting like the adult in the room.

His tweets LITERALLY makes liberal's heads explode.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:38:14 PM EST
[#37]
Blew it or not he's a good dude who did a world of good for his state unlike many other governors. Florida would be grateful to have him for even more terms
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:39:05 PM EST
[#38]
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Originally Posted By uncle_big_green:


Ron isn't going to kiss the ring of Democrat Don.
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Originally Posted By uncle_big_green:
Originally Posted By ranging-by-zipcode:



He will beg Trump for forgiveness and maybe Trump will pick him as his VP


Ron isn't going to kiss the ring of Democrat Don.



He's not a Democrat.

Underscore
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:53:35 PM EST
[#39]
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Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:



He's not a Democrat.

Underscore
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I think everyone here would agree that Trump is preferable to Biden in both 2020 and 2024.  So we can at least say that right?
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:54:57 PM EST
[#40]
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Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:



He's not a Democrat.

Underscore
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The term, ironically, is RINO. Trump is a Republican In Name Only.

He may have changed his party affiliation a while back, but he never changed his politics.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:55:12 PM EST
[#41]
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Originally Posted By uncle_big_green:


Ron isn't going to kiss the ring of Democrat Don.
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He'd better not.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 7:59:00 PM EST
[#42]
Actual conservatism is dead.

Yay. Go USA.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:00:56 PM EST
[#43]
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Originally Posted By macman37:
It’s afraid.

And by “it” I’m referring to the Trump campaign.
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:04:21 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thunderw21:



So what you're saying is that if the polls are correct, a majority of Republican voters support Trump because they are shallow and crave entertainment more than the possibility of having a strong conservative President who destroyed the Democrats in his home state? That they're willing to elect a geriatric gun-grabber who failed miserably during Covid and still praises his harmful gene juice because he's entertaining and makes good jokes?

Do I have that right?
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You do have that right.

In many ways the right is just like the left. :/
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:12:41 PM EST
[#45]
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Originally Posted By Gspointer:

You don’t think it’s possible the relentless, boorish behavior of the DeSantis supporters had anything to do with his support faltering here?
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Originally Posted By Gspointer:
Originally Posted By Low_Country:


A year ago, DeSantis was more popular here than Trump by about a 3-1 margin.  He was a wildly successful governor, and there wasn't much bad anybody had to say about him.

Then the indictments started, which occupied 99% of the political media right about the time Desantis was announcing his presidential campaign.  The petty personal attacks from Trump against Desantis started, and the band wagon got rolling.

Like I said, it is emotional with the Trump supporters.  Issues and records of accomplishment matter not.

So I'll ask you again, if Trump happens to get re-elected, what does his Presidency look like?  What does it accomplish?  If you are supporting him, these should be simple questions to answer.

You don’t think it’s possible the relentless, boorish behavior of the DeSantis supporters had anything to do with his support faltering here?


LOL You do not get to define the stakes here… good thing nobody called you out on “relentlessly boorish behavior”.

Man you guys can dish it out but not take it. We had 6+ years of Trump fans showing their asses and advocating we less-than-enthusiastic conservatives get banned from the site.… but a few months of “relentless boorish behavior” is wayyy too much.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:22:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-] [#46]
I don’t think he blew it. I think with how fed up people are with Democrats and how ruthlessly they’re trying to get rid of Trump, he’s a shoe in for the R side. The Democrats have tried to hang him but just ended up giving him the tallest podium.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:26:02 PM EST
[#47]
lol he never had it to blow
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:34:44 PM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Low_Country:


Trump presidency in a nutshell.  But hey, he's got a great personality.  Super electable.
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Originally Posted By Low_Country:
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

My favorite part was when it went from, "Mexico is going to pay for the wall!", and people seriously believing it: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Why-Would-Mexico-Agree-to-Pay-for-Trump-s-Wall-/5-1824381/

To a GoFundMe to pay for it 2 years later with people here actually dumb enough to send money: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Build-the-wall-gofundme-now-with-link/5-2176579/

To Steve Bannon being jailed for embezzling wall funds 2 years after that: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Breaking-Steve-Bannon-arrested/5-2360582/

And now Trump calling anyone who seriously thought he was going to make Mexico pay for the wall idiots.



Trump presidency in a nutshell.  But hey, he's got a great personality.  Super electable.




This.

And no one can refute that he lost to a doddering old pedo who didn't even campaign.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:36:07 PM EST
[#49]
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Holy shit, is that a real conspiracy theory the Q-tard brigade had?
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https://www.newsweek.com/trump-rally-goers-say-space-force-can-prove-2020-election-fraud-1696715

There are many like it, but this one is theirs.
Link Posted: 11/20/2023 8:43:47 PM EST
[#50]
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Originally Posted By Alembic:


He'd better not.
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Originally Posted By Alembic:
Originally Posted By uncle_big_green:


Ron isn't going to kiss the ring of Democrat Don.


He'd better not.


Ron DeSantis has released an ad indoctrinating his children into Trumpism
Page / 20
How Desantis Blew It (Page 7 of 20)
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