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Posted: 8/14/2007 1:44:28 PM EDT
Houston police officer uses stun gun on father holding newborn
By JUAN A. LOZANO
Associated Press Writer

HOUSTON — In a confrontation captured on videotape, an off-duty Houston police officer fired a stun gun to stop a defiant father from taking home his newborn baby, sending both man and child crashing to the floor.

Now the man says the baby girl suffers from head trauma because she was dropped.

"I've got to wonder what kind of moron would Tase an adult holding a baby," said George Kirkham, a former police officer and criminologist at Florida State University. "It doesn't take rocket science to realize the baby is going to fall."

The trouble began in April when William Lewis, 30, said he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas so they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators.

The elevators would not move because wristband sensors on each baby shut off the elevators if anyone takes an infant without permission.

Lewis, who gave the video to The Associated Press, said his daughter landed on her head, but it cannot be seen on the video. He said the baby seems injured since the episode.

"She shakes a lot and cries a lot," Lewis said, noting doctors have performed several MRIs on the child, Karla. "She's not real responsive. Something is definitely wrong with my daughter."

It was not clear whether the baby received any electrical jolt.

Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant doesn't appear to be suffering any ill effects from the fall.

Houston Police Department spokesman Officer Gabe Ortiz said the department did not investigate the officer's role in the incident, but declined further comment.

David Boling, an off-duty Houston police officer working security at the hospital, and another security guard can be seen on the surveillance video arriving at the elevators and trying to talk with Lewis. Lewis appears agitated as he walks around the elevators holding his daughter in his right arm.

Within 40 seconds of arriving, Boling is holding the Taser. He walks around Lewis and whispers to the other guard, who moves to Lewis' right side.

About a minute later, Boling can be seen casually standing near Lewis, not looking in his direction, when he suddenly raises the Taser and fires it at Lewis, who was still holding his daughter.

Lewis drops to the floor. The other guard, who has not been identified, scoops up the baby and gives her to the child's mother, who was standing nearby in a hospital gown.

The guard then pulls Lewis to his feet with his arms locked behind him. Lewis' T-shirt has two holes under the left side of his chest where the Taser prongs hit him.

Lewis said he did not see the stun gun.

"My wife said we want to leave and then he just Tasered me," Lewis said. "He caused me to drop the child."

In a statement, The Woman's Hospital of Texas said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward hospital staff who were only trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave the hospital. Neither Lewis or Gray had indicated they wanted to be discharged from the hospital, according to the statement.

"Mr. Lewis became verbally abusive by using vulgar expletives. When Mr. Lewis' behavior became threatening, endangering the infant and employees, licensed law enforcement officers followed their professional standards to protect those involved," the statement said.

Lewis was arrested and charged with endangering a child. A grand jury in May declined to indict him on that charge, but charged him with retaliation, accusing him of making threats against Boling.

Lewis also has been charged with a second count of retaliation alleging he made a threatening call to Boling at his home.

Lewis denies both charges. He said he is considering suing the hospital but has not filed any legal papers.

Some 11,000 U.S. law enforcement agencies use Tasers, which have been officially listed as a contributing factor in about 12 deaths nationwide, according to Scottsdale, Ariz.-based Taser International Inc., which makes the weapon.

Some experts contend the weapon can be deadly, particularly when used on suspects who use drugs or suffer from heart problems.

"The Taser itself is a legitimate law-enforcement tool," Kirkham said. "The problem is the abusive use of them. They're supposed to be only used to protect yourself or another person from imminent aggression and physical harm. They're overused now."

___

Associated Press writer Chris Duncan and Monica Rhor contributed to this report.


___

August 14, 2007 - 4:32 p.m. CDT

Copyright 2007, The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP Online news report may not be published, broadcast or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:46:29 PM EDT
That baby was gonna be screwed anyway, with a dad like that.

However... the cop REALLY should have thought that one through!!!

Kinda like the dumbass who Tazed the suicidal guy who just doused himself with gasoline

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:48:08 PM EDT
Idiot cop. Hope he faces charges and gets fired and sued.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:49:10 PM EDT
WOW!!! Taser International criticizing an LEO use of a Taser. Just WOW!




Some 11,000 U.S. law enforcement agencies use Tasers, which have been officially listed as a contributing factor in about 12 deaths nationwide, according to Scottsdale, Ariz.-based Taser International Inc., which makes the weapon.

Some experts contend the weapon can be deadly, particularly when used on suspects who use drugs or suffer from heart problems.

"The Taser itself is a legitimate law-enforcement tool," Kirkham said. "The problem is the abusive use of them. They're supposed to be only used to protect yourself or another person from imminent aggression and physical harm. They're overused now."



Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:50:17 PM EDT
Can a Doc legally have you held at a hospital?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:51:40 PM EDT
Lon would have just blown his head off
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:52:19 PM EDT
Kirkham was the Florida guy, not the Taser guy.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:53:04 PM EDT
Tackling the guy would have been SO much safer.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:53:42 PM EDT
What the fuck?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:55:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:55:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:55:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Can a Doc legally have you held at a hospital?


They can have YOU held for up to 72 hours before the courts must get involved.

They can have YOUR MINOR CHILD held with a court order.

So, no, AFAIK, no one had the authority to prevent this man from leaving with his child, however, I am not familiar with any peculiarities of Texas law.

YMMV by state.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:56:05 PM EDT
I await the GD wisdom on how they would have handled the situation.

Remember, this was initally reported as a fight and some sort of kidnap attempt. The relationship between the child and dumbass was unknown. Essentially it's a hostage situation.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:56:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
I await the GD wisdom on how they would have handled the situation.

Remember, this was initally reported as a fight and some sort of kidnap attempt. The relationship between the child and dumbass was unknown. Essentially it's a hostage situation.


So lets try not to kill the hostage next time, ok?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:58:55 PM EDT
Where is the problem? Oh wait... this is posted on ARFCOM..... got it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:00:03 PM EDT
COmplete and 100% horseshit!
I know that the dad was not the best and brightest

You have every right to leave a hospitial at any time*
* watch the medical tyrants get all up in arms, people complain about the "blue" line but the "white" line is much stronger and they operate with open contempt of their "patients"

The off duty officer was an first class idiot, he had no right to detain the man provided there was not an active threat to child. You are free to refuse medical treatemet at any time you also have this right for your minor children.


Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:01:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 2:03:54 PM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
HPD is one of the few I've seen that allows off duty officers to work security gigs in uniform. That would seem to even further blur the line between private security and police officer, and create situations where someone working in a private security role violates the laws that regulates private security, yet isn't prosecuted because at some point during the incident they reverted back to being police officers.


Off-duty officers working security in uniform is a statewide practice common to a wide number of depts and has been the entire time I've been a police officer.

Fact is, I'm working off-duty security tonight for a concert. Will even have a patrol car that the venue compensates the city for. My take home from this one gig should be around $650.

There is no conflict between security guard laws and police officers. They simply are exempt.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:02:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Idiot cop. Hope he faces charges and gets fired and sued.


He will never be charged with anything.

Houston Police Department spokesman Officer Gabe Ortiz said the department did not investigate the officer's role in the incident, but declined further comment.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:02:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 2:03:56 PM EDT by Mr_Psmith]

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
You have every right to leave a hospitial at any time*
* watch the medical tyrants get all up in arms, people complain about the "blue" line but the "white" line is much stronger and they operate with open contempt of their "patients"


Fuck your shit-stirring.

You shit in every medical thread here.

We are not about to hold people who don't want to be there -- hell, we're glad to see people like YOU go.

As for our other patients, we love them.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:03:34 PM EDT
According to the article, I do not think the hospital knew who the father was at the time he was trying to leave with the child. If so, Good stop, poor choice in method of stopping.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:05:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr_Psmith:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
You have every right to leave a hospitial at any time*
* watch the medical tyrants get all up in arms, people complain about the "blue" line but the "white" line is much stronger and they operate with open contempt of their "patients"


Fuck your shit-stirring.

You shit in every medical thread here.

We are not about to hold people who don't want to be there -- hell, we're glad to see people like YOU go.

As for our other patients, we love them.



Apparently you are wrong.

Seems that the hospital was trying hold this family there.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:06:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lumper:
According to the article, I do not think the hospital knew who the father was at the time he was trying to leave with the child. If so, Good stop, poor choice in method of stopping.


What a would be a better method? Takedown/throw? Leg strikes? Baton? How about OC? Seems like each of them have a high probability of creating a situation where the child could have been dropped.

Did the person whose sperm created the child (because it doesnt seem like he is going to be a father) actually drop the child to the ground or did a portion of his body break the child's fall?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
Houston police officer uses stun gun on father holding newborn


Just another daily example of the ramifications of hiring idiots to be cops.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:07:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
I await the GD wisdom on how they would have handled the situation.

Remember, this was initally reported as a fight and some sort of kidnap attempt. The relationship between the child and dumbass was unknown. Essentially it's a hostage situation.


There was no such call from the article

David Boling, an off-duty Houston police officer working security at the hospital, and another security guard can be seen on the surveillance video arriving at the elevators and trying to talk with Lewis. Lewis appears agitated as he walks around the elevators holding his daughter in his right arm.

Within 40 seconds of arriving, Boling is holding the Taser. He walks around Lewis and whispers to the other guard, who moves to Lewis' right side.

About a minute later, Boling can be seen casually standing near Lewis, not looking in his direction, when he suddenly raises the Taser and fires it at Lewis, who was still holding his daughter.

Lewis drops to the floor. The other guard, who has not been identified, scoops up the baby and gives her to the child's mother, who was standing nearby in a hospital gown.

The guard then pulls Lewis to his feet with his arms locked behind him. Lewis' T-shirt has two holes under the left side of his chest where the Taser prongs hit him.

Lewis said he did not see the stun gun.

"My wife said we want to leave and then he just Tasered me," Lewis said. "He caused me to drop the child."

In a statement, The Woman's Hospital of Texas said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward hospital staff who were only trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave the hospital. Neither Lewis or Gray had indicated they wanted to be discharged from the hospital, according to the statement.

"Mr. Lewis became verbally abusive by using vulgar expletives. When Mr. Lewis' behavior became threatening, endangering the infant and employees, licensed law enforcement officers followed their professional standards to protect those involved," the statement said.



I am sure what happend is they got crappy service and care from the hospitial, they decided to leave and some tyrant nurse got mad cause her penis size was challenged and called the security (who happend to be an off duty HPD) Now the father was an idiot he should have told them that they were leaving and to remove the band and discharge. If the hospital refused which I am sure he would have he should have called a lawyer and law enforcement.


I would like to see the actual vid with audio before making more assumptions but unless the baby was in immediate danger of GBH the taser deployment was 100% stupid bordering on criminal negliance
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:08:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 2:11:42 PM EDT by glenn_r]

Originally Posted By krpind:
In a statement, The Woman's Hospital of Texas said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward hospital staff who were only trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave the hospital. Neither Lewis or Gray had indicated they wanted to be discharged from the hospital, according to the statement.



I'm not sure the Taser was the right answer, but it's pretty clear why security got involved. Hospitals having babies kidnapped is kind of a no-no.

Edit: so what should the off-duty cop have done to prevent the guy from leaving? Baton? Grabbed him and started wrestling? The guy sounds like someone who'd use the infant as a human shield, like the POS did in LA a year or so ago.

The real loser in this incident is the infant, although now that it's in the grips of human services...well, strike that.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:08:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By lumper:
According to the article, I do not think the hospital knew who the father was at the time he was trying to leave with the child. If so, Good stop, poor choice in method of stopping.


What a would be a better method? Takedown/throw? Leg strikes? Baton? How about OC? Seems like each of them have a high probability of creating a situation where the child could have been dropped.

Did the person whose sperm created the child (because it doesnt seem like he is going to be a father) actually drop the child to the ground or did a portion of his body break the child's fall?


Arfcom GD. long on whining, REALLY short on workable alternatives.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:10:24 PM EDT
What a shocking experience...

<­BR>





These things happen...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:10:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
What a would be a better method? Takedown/throw? Leg strikes? Baton? How about OC? Seems like each of them have a high probability of creating a situation where the child could have been dropped.


Talking/negotiating maybe? Instead Barney went straight for the taser. In what a little over a minute?

The father obviously wasn't going to get anywhere. The floor was locked down.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:12:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr_Psmith:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
You have every right to leave a hospitial at any time*
* watch the medical tyrants get all up in arms, people complain about the "blue" line but the "white" line is much stronger and they operate with open contempt of their "patients"


Fuck your shit-stirring.

You shit in every medical thread here.

We are not about to hold people who don't want to be there -- hell, we're glad to see people like YOU go.

As for our other patients, we love them.




Really my wife is a nurse. I have seen first hand medical staff try and hold people against their will. As a peace officer I have been called to a hospitial by a patient that was being told they could not leave.

I think you just proved my point. I have nothing but respect and care for the compasionate and caring and helpfull MD's and Nurses that do their best given the gruelling conditions they work in. I have nothing but contempt for the arrogant bully type that seem to make a good portion of todays medical field. I have very good relationships with all our doctors and nurses, but we won't put up with shoddy care or bad service and that really pisses some medical folks off, I guess they are used to a captive crowd
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:13:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 2:18:15 PM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
I await the GD wisdom on how they would have handled the situation.

Remember, this was initally reported as a fight and some sort of kidnap attempt. The relationship between the child and dumbass was unknown. Essentially it's a hostage situation.


There was no such call from the article.



Oh yes there is.



The Woman's Hospital of Texas said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward hospital staff who were only trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave the hospital. Neither Lewis or Gray had indicated they wanted to be discharged from the hospital, according to the statement.

"Mr. Lewis became verbally abusive by using vulgar expletives. When Mr. Lewis' behavior became threatening, endangering the infant and employees, licensed law enforcement officers followed their professional standards to protect those involved," the statement said.

You go right ahead and babble to your hearts content and give the asshole time to figure out how to hurt the infant. Personally, I want him taken out on the spot. A bullet to the head would have been perfectly acceptable. I'm amazed you do not recognise a deadly force situation right in front of you.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:46:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

You would have shot him?



If you don't know who the guy is and he's got an infant and is agitated and looks like he might become violent....ya.

Remember that things look a whole lot different when you are looking over the sights at a situation than they do when there's time to write a news article about them.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:47:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Shot him. It all depends on the officers judgement of the threat posed to the child. A fall to the floor could have easily been seen as a far lesser evil. That guy was not leaving the floor with the child. Period.


You would have shot him?
Aside from killing some kids father because all facts had not been verified and what about the permanent hearing loss to the child.

The reality is very little time elapsed. I agree under no circumstances would I have let the guy leave the floor. But it seems police are far to quick to pull the trigger whether it be a taser or pistol.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:47:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
That baby was gonna be screwed anyway, with a dad like that.

However... the cop REALLY should have thought that one through!!!

Kinda like the dumbass who Tazed the suicidal guy who just doused himself with gasoline




WHY? Because he doesnt think his child belongs to the state and excercised his right to take said child out of the hospital?

I did the same thing with my first when the doctors were being a PITA about minor jaundice which sunlight cleared right up
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:48:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 2:50:46 PM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Shot him. It all depends on the officers judgement of the threat posed to the child. A fall to the floor could have easily been seen as a far lesser evil. That guy was not leaving the floor with the child. Period.


You would have shot him?
Aside from killing some kids father because all facts had not been verified and what about the permanent hearing loss to the child.

The reality is very little time elapsed. I agree under no circumstances would I have let the guy leave the floor. But it seems police are far to quick to pull the trigger whether it be a taser or pistol.


Let me guess. You'd talk to him too. Ever seen a 15-month old boy's skull hit a light pole?

Go back to the facts the officer knew at the time. Stanger takes a baby and is combative, irrational and highly emotionally charged.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:49:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

You would have shot him?



If you don't know who the guy is and he's got an infant and is agitated and looks like he might become violent....ya.

Remember that things look a whole lot different when you are looking over the sights at a situation than they do when there's time to write a news article about them.


I can agree with that, adrenalin is going thru the roof. However, you better have made the right decision and I think courts should hold police accountable for making the wrong decisions. I don't buy into all the violent takedowns and no knocks. Police are human and subject to mistakes, but just like the rest of us, consequences for screwing the pooch ( or shooting it)
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:
But it seems police are far to quick to pull the trigger whether it be a taser or pistol.



And you would be wrong. Law Enforcement typically uses less force than allowed by law to handle situations they encounter. Now back in the Norman Rockwell days everyone around longs for......... they would have beaten or shot the guy without batting an eye
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:52:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Tackling the guy would have been SO much safer.


Exactly.

I'm at a loss to understand what other level of force the officer was supposed to use to stop some jackass who is treating his baby like a football.


I'm still waiting for the experts that have NEVER been in a remotely similar situation would have handled it. So far all I've gotte is "talking".


Well from what I can tell from the story and vid whic is not much.

I would asked is that your child?
now depending on response and body language it could go a bunch of differnet ways
The first priority is to get the man calmed down, probably in this situation
"I am not here to keep you from leaving, you have every right to leave but I must make sure that the baby belongs to you before you leave"

Seing that there was what looked like a sheriff there as well I would have said sir may I hold the baby or can we get mom to hold the baby while we get this taken care of.

I may have had to go hands on, I was never issiued a taser but I have been to several taser training events, and I would have at the front of my mind that if I tase this dude baby and dude are going down..

There was no perfect way to handle this.
The nurses most likely caused the sitation to escalate
The dad was an idiot by further escalating the situation
The officer that used the taser was proably the least responsable
\

This is one of these deals where you wish that once someone had a child they would stop being an idiot and put the welfare of their child before their temper/ego/drugs/ect


Make no mistake the father is 90% responsable for what happend

OK

Sir I will get you out of here as soon as we can verify that the child belongs to you but I can't let you leave until that happens
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:52:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

You would have shot him?
Aside from killing some kids father because all facts had not been verified and what about the permanent hearing loss to the child.


At the point where you are considering shooting someone hearing loss to the child is the least of the worries.



The reality is very little time elapsed. I agree under no circumstances would I have let the guy leave the floor. But it seems police are far to quick to pull the trigger whether it be a taser or pistol.


The Taser is the LEAST aggressive use of force the police have....ANY other form of force was more likely to result in injury to the child than the taser. In many UOFC it is rated below going hands on...

The answer people seem to want here was the use of NO force whatsoever...which given the circumstances doesn't sound like a good idea given the information the officers had at the moment this was transpiring.

Remember, fathers are known to harm children too. Here locally a state trooper had to open a can of whoopass on a man who was smacking around his toddler in the ER waiting room because the child was crying.

The child was crying because his arm had been broken by the asshole in the first place.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:52:55 PM EDT
Let's just get it over with and shoot every motherfucker who's holding a child.

Who knows what they might do to the kid.

The level of asshattery jackbooted trigger-happy thuggery in this thread is fucking nauseating.

Son of a bitch some of you guys scare me.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:54:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I did the same thing with my first when the doctors were being a PITA about minor jaundice which sunlight cleared right up


...sunlight doesn't have anything to do with jaundice. Maybe you're thinking about rickets or something. Newborns get jaundice all the time, and it usually clears up by itself within a couple weeks. Sunlight isn't a factor.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:55:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Let me guess. You'd talk to him too. I try for more than 60 seconds Ever seen a 15-month old boy's skull hit a light pole? No and I'm sorry that you have. I wouldn;t have the stomach for it.

Go back to the facts the officer knew at the time. Stanger takes a baby and is combative, irrational and highly emotionally charged. I agree a very difficult situation


It's hard to tell from the tape since there wasn't any audio but he didn't seem irrate to me. The paper also only quotes one side of the story.

Regardless i feel bad for the baby. Going to be a long hard road through life it seems.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:55:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I did the same thing with my first when the doctors were being a PITA about minor jaundice which sunlight cleared right up

...sunlight doesn't have anything to do with jaundice. Maybe you're thinking about rickets or something. Newborns get jaundice all the time, and it usually clears up by itself within a couple weeks. Sunlight isn't a factor.

That's not what our doctors told us with our children.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:56:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I did the same thing with my first when the doctors were being a PITA about minor jaundice which sunlight cleared right up


...sunlight doesn't have anything to do with jaundice. Maybe you're thinking about rickets or something. Newborns get jaundice all the time, and it usually clears up by itself within a couple weeks. Sunlight isn't a factor.

Incorrect
Mild jaundice is often made better by sunlight now severe jaundice is another matter
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Let's just get it over with and shoot every motherfucker who's holding a child.

Who knows what they might do to the kid.


Hyperbole doesn't help.

Someone swinging a baseball bat on a diamond during a softball game isn't threatening...someone doing the exact same thing at 12:00 at night outside a place they have no business at can be....

Someone strolling down the street with their child is not a problem....someone who has just been in a loud argument with hospital staff who wanted him to identify himself and who snatches up a child and attempts to leave with him/her is a whole different ballgame.

Context, context, context.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:58:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I did the same thing with my first when the doctors were being a PITA about minor jaundice which sunlight cleared right up

...sunlight doesn't have anything to do with jaundice. Maybe you're thinking about rickets or something. Newborns get jaundice all the time, and it usually clears up by itself within a couple weeks. Sunlight isn't a factor.

That's not what our doctors told us with our children.


+1

They wanted to keep him in NICU under a SUN LAMP for that very reason
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:00:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Seing that there was what looked like a sheriff there
- I'm pretty sure that is the security guard that was referenced in the article. It appears the officer told the guard what his plan was and for the guard to be in position to catch the kid when the guy was hit with the Taser. The movement of the security guard also helps further my belief in that.

If the guy had put the child down, as he was probably told to do, all of this would have been avoided.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:00:40 PM EDT
He should have thrown the baby at the cop so the cop would be occupied with catching it and then made a run for it...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:01:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Seing that there was what looked like a sheriff there
- I'm pretty sure that is the security guard that was referenced in the article. It appears the officer told the guard what his plan was and for the guard to be in position to catch the kid when the guy was hit with the Taser. The movement of the security guard also helps further my belief in that.

If the guy had put the child down, as he was probably told to do, all of this would have been avoided.



The security uniform looks exactly like the county so uniform, but i cant tell
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:02:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:
It's hard to tell from the tape since there wasn't any audio but he didn't seem irrate to me. The paper also only quotes one side of the story.

.


Prior to the officer hitting him with the Taser it appears he (the guy holding the kid) blades himself off. Unless things have changed, that is typically an aggressive movement.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:04:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

You would have shot him?
Aside from killing some kids father because all facts had not been verified and what about the permanent hearing loss to the child.


At the point where you are considering shooting someone hearing loss to the child is the least of the worries.



The reality is very little time elapsed. I agree under no circumstances would I have let the guy leave the floor. But it seems police are far to quick to pull the trigger whether it be a taser or pistol.


The Taser is the LEAST aggressive use of force the police have....ANY other form of force was more likely to result in injury to the child than the taser. In many UOFC it is rated below going hands on...

The answer people seem to want here was the use of NO force whatsoever...which given the circumstances doesn't sound like a good idea given the information the officers had at the moment this was transpiring.

Remember, fathers are known to harm children too. Here locally a state trooper had to open a can of whoopass on a man who was smacking around his toddler in the ER waiting room because the child was crying.

The child was crying because his arm had been broken by the asshole in the first place.




Don't you know that Cops are supposed to be super negotiators that can solve every problem by just walking away or telling the person all about their rights both real and theoretical

The haters are going to find fault no matter what. It isn't new. There are more than a few folks walking the earth that I agree to disagree with.


The guy was alleged and reported to be in the process of kidnapping the child which is why it has a bracelet on it that keeps the elevators from working...see the bracelet, that means that the guy is not supposed to have that kid there. Kids are taken from doctor's offices on a regular basis which is why that was invented.


I would have shot him as well and put the round between his eyes. He was met by an LEO in full uniform who gave him a clear and legal order. All he had to do was cooperate and he would have been able to walk free...he chose to endanger his kid and he got off light.

Shame for the kid to have such crappy parents.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:07:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:46:04 PM EDT by Nimrod1193]
Okay ARFCOM Armchair Commandos, lets hear how you would handle the situation. You are an officer dispatched to a hospital. The situation is as follows; an infant is in the custody of CPS because of a history of domestic violence in the home. The father, who does not have custody of the child, is attempting to leave with her. He is extremely agitated, and trying to leave when you arrive. Your choices are as follows:

1. Let him leave with his child, hoping that you don't wind up reading about a dead child in the paper in a few days.

2. Engage in a physical struggle with a man who has an infant in his arms, hoping she doesn't get crushed in the melee.

3. Use your taser and try to control the situation so she doesn't get hurt.

You have less than a minute to assess the situation and act.

I'm not saying that the officer did the right thing. I wasn't there. I'm just saying that sometimes an officer's choices in a situation are shitty and shittier.
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