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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/13/2005 2:07:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 3:08:05 PM EDT by TacticalStrat]
What the hell is going on with these fooking gun haters???

As a reference, the new law is clarified here by a former procecuter: Clarifies Right to Carry Handgun in Vehicle While Traveling

Pistol-toting drivers without a permit will still be prosecuted, Rosenthal warns

Link


By CLAY ROBISON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau

AUSTIN - Motorists arrested for carrying pistols in their cars without a concealed handgun license will continue to be prosecuted in Houston, despite a new law that purports to give them a legal defense, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal said Monday.

Although the sponsor said the law should reduce the number of arrests for unlawful handgun possession, Rosenthal said it won't change enforcement practices in Houston after it goes into effect on Thursday.

"It is still going to be against the law for (unlicensed) persons to carry handguns in autos," the district attorney said, adding that the new legal defense can still be challenged by prosecutors.

The new law, enacted during the regular legislative session last spring, seeks to clarify a longtime law that allowed Texans to carry handguns while traveling, a qualification that was subject to a number of inconsistent court interpretations over the years.

The new statute says a person is "presumed to be traveling" if he or she is in a private vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity (except for a minor traffic offense), is not prohibited by any other law from possessing a firearm and is not a member of a criminal street gang.

It also requires the handgun to be concealed in the car, although weapons can be discovered by officers during routine traffic stops if a driver gives permission for a car to be searched or opens a glove compartment where a gun is secured to retrieve an insurance card or other documentation.

"The intent of the law is to keep innocent people from going to jail," said the sponsor, Rep. Terry Keel, R-Austin, a former prosecutor and former Travis County sheriff who now is a candidate for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.

More than 237,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses. But many other law-abiding adults don't have licenses because they are disqualified by exceptions that have nothing to do with public safety, said Alice Tripp, a lobbyist for the Texas State Rifle Association, an NRA affiliate.

Tripp said people who have defaulted on student loans, who owe the state sales tax or franchise tax payments or are behind in child support payments are ineligible to receive a license.

Keel said he hoped the law will prompt police officers to think twice about arresting motorists who meet the new legal presumption and spare them the expense and "indignity" of arrest and prosecution.

Otherwise, he said, "They basically are going to arrest innocent people and make them prove their innocence."

Rosenthal and Rob Kepple, executive director of the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, disagreed.

Rosenthal said the new presumption about "traveling" doesn't define what constitutes traveling and can be challenged in court by prosecutors, leaving it to juries to decide verdicts "based upon the facts of the case."

A prosecutor could summon witnesses to successfully argue that a defendant wasn't traveling because he was simply "driving around the corner for a carton of milk," Kepple said.

"I really don't think (the law) should affect how police officers respond in arresting somebody," he added.

Houston Police Department spokeswoman Johanna Abad indicated Houston police were going to take their advice from Rosenthal's office.

Unlawful possession of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor punishable by as much as one year in county jail and a $4,000 fine. Rosenthal said most cases are resolved through plea bargains.

The prosecutor said he asked Gov. Rick Perry to veto the bill because "taking weapons off the street is a pretty good deal." He said his office handled about 5,000 weapons cases of varying degrees of severity last year.

Tripp called Rosenthal's opposition a case of "sour grapes ... and a threat to the general public."

clay.robison@chron.com

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:07:21 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:09:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:13:45 PM EDT
Houston, we have a problem...

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:14:32 PM EDT
LA.,s law is simpler car is "extension of property" same rules apply as the home. Why not just write it this way?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:22:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:23:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 3:24:34 PM EDT by FordGuy]


you (or a Texas resident) ought to file a grievance with the TX bar against that son of a bitch.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:25:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Dupe from a couple of weeks ago (but don't sweat it).

His intentions are no different than if he were to start prosecuting people for smoking cigarettes, selling beer, writing critical opinion editorials, or wearing the color blue. If there is no law against it then the prosecution will fail. Eventually, the people will toss him out of office for wasting tax-payer funds.




If you are ever investigated/prosecuted for somethin gyou didn't do/are not guilty of, you will change your tune!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:27:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:28:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:32:40 PM EDT
I told you so.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:33:21 PM EDT
I feel pretty clear on the 2nd Amendment and it's pretty damn depressing to follow the bs trail of interpretation down to mother, may I? (the state) to I don't care what the law says! (Rosenthal)
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:35:14 PM EDT
[DA]The Law? BAH![/DA]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:37:33 PM EDT
Why should you care?
If you live in a state with shall issue carry permits I can see no good reason why you dont have one.

<­BR>
And the AG is asshat.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:38:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
What the hell is going on with these fooking gun haters???

As a reference, the new law is clarified here by a former procecuter: Clarifies Right to Carry Handgun in Vehicle While Traveling

Pistol-toting drivers without a permit will still be prosecuted, Rosenthal warns

Link


By CLAY ROBISON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau

AUSTIN - Motorists arrested for carrying pistols in their cars without a concealed handgun license will continue to be prosecuted in Houston, despite a new law that purports to give them a legal defense, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal said Monday.

Although the sponsor said the law should reduce the number of arrests for unlawful handgun possession, Rosenthal said it won't change enforcement practices in Houston after it goes into effect on Thursday.

"It is still going to be against the law for (unlicensed) persons to carry handguns in autos," the district attorney said, adding that the new legal defense can still be challenged by prosecutors.

The new law, enacted during the regular legislative session last spring, seeks to clarify a longtime law that allowed Texans to carry handguns while traveling, a qualification that was subject to a number of inconsistent court interpretations over the years.

The new statute says a person is "presumed to be traveling" if he or she is in a private vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity (except for a minor traffic offense), is not prohibited by any other law from possessing a firearm and is not a member of a criminal street gang.

It also requires the handgun to be concealed in the car, although weapons can be discovered by officers during routine traffic stops if a driver gives permission for a car to be searched or opens a glove compartment where a gun is secured to retrieve an insurance card or other documentation.

"The intent of the law is to keep innocent people from going to jail," said the sponsor, Rep. Terry Keel, R-Austin, a former prosecutor and former Travis County sheriff who now is a candidate for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.

More than 237,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses. But many other law-abiding adults don't have licenses because they are disqualified by exceptions that have nothing to do with public safety, said Alice Tripp, a lobbyist for the Texas State Rifle Association, an NRA affiliate.

Tripp said people who have defaulted on student loans, who owe the state sales tax or franchise tax payments or are behind in child support payments are ineligible to receive a license.

Keel said he hoped the law will prompt police officers to think twice about arresting motorists who meet the new legal presumption and spare them the expense and "indignity" of arrest and prosecution.

Otherwise, he said, "They basically are going to arrest innocent people and make them prove their innocence."

Rosenthal and Rob Kepple, executive director of the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, disagreed.

Rosenthal said the new presumption about "traveling" doesn't define what constitutes traveling and can be challenged in court by prosecutors, leaving it to juries to decide verdicts "based upon the facts of the case."

A prosecutor could summon witnesses to successfully argue that a defendant wasn't traveling because he was simply "driving around the corner for a carton of milk," Kepple said
.

"I really don't think (the law) should affect how police officers respond in arresting somebody," he added.

Houston Police Department spokeswoman Johanna Abad indicated Houston police were going to take their advice from Rosenthal's office.

Unlawful possession of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor punishable by as much as one year in county jail and a $4,000 fine. Rosenthal said most cases are resolved through plea bargains.

The prosecutor said he asked Gov. Rick Perry to veto the bill because "taking weapons off the street is a pretty good deal." He said his office handled about 5,000 weapons cases of varying degrees of severity last year.

Tripp called Rosenthal's opposition a case of "sour grapes ... and a threat to the general public."

clay.robison@chron.com





Well that depends what your definition of "is" is........... Clinton would be proud of this dumbass
I swear some people should just be left somewhere to rot and this jackass fits the bill.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:39:07 PM EDT
Fuck him. I'm driving to Houston on Friday, and I'll have my snubbie and a couple speedloaders with some hot shit in 'em stuffed in my center console.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:40:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.



Say what?

Was there a "better" CCW law on the books and their support was a compromise on this "lesser" CCW law...

...or did Hell just freeze over?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:44:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 3:45:18 PM EDT by TodaysTomSawyer]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Why should you care?
If you live in a state with shall issue carry permits I can see no good reason why you dont have one.

A­nd the AG is asshat.




I understand what your saying captain. I've thought many times of getting a CHL (and may someday), but my problem is this -

I am too stubborn to ask the state for the priveledge of excercising my rights, I believe the 2nd preempts any other laws regarding arms. And, a priveledge can be taken away at the discretion of the grantor. Our Constitution wasn't meant to be that way.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:47:49 PM EDT
This is Merriam-Webster definition of "traveling":


Main Entry: 1trav·el
Pronunciation: 'tra-v&l
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -eled or -elled; -el·ing or trav·el·ling /'tra-v&-li[ng], 'trav-li[ng]/

Etymology: Middle English travailen to labor, journey, from Old French travaillier to labor
intransitive senses
1 a : to go on or as if on a trip or tour : JOURNEY b (1) : to go as if by traveling : PASS <the news traveled fast> (2) : ASSOCIATE <travels with a sophisticated crowd> c : to go from place to place as a sales representative or business agent
2 a : to move or undergo transmission from one place to another b : to move in a given direction or path or through a given distance <the stylus travels in a groove> c : to move rapidly <a car that can really travel>
3 : to walk or run with a basketball in violation of the rules
transitive senses
1 a : to journey through or over b : to follow (a course or path) as if by traveling


Now what the fuck is so hard to understand?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:51:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Houston, we have a problem...



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:55:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Why should you care?
If you live in a state with shall issue carry permits I can see no good reason why you dont have one.

And the AG is asshat.




I have a CHL. It's not a worry for me personally. The issue is, this is not right for my fellow Texans who may be prosecuted for something that is legal. This infuriates me. It should infuriate everyone that cares about their rights.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Dupe from a couple of weeks ago (but don't sweat it).

His intentions are no different than if he were to start prosecuting people for smoking cigarettes, selling beer, writing critical opinion editorials, or wearing the color blue. If there is no law against it then the prosecution will fail. Eventually, the people will toss him out of office for wasting tax-payer funds.




If you are ever investigated/prosecuted for somethin gyou didn't do/are not guilty of, you will change your tune!



Huh?




I think he's implying that 'eventually' is a long, long time to wait, for the people who get charged with the non-crime of carrying a gun, and have to wade through the legal system to prove their innocence.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:04:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Dupe from a couple of weeks ago (but don't sweat it).

His intentions are no different than if he were to start prosecuting people for smoking cigarettes, selling beer, writing critical opinion editorials, or wearing the color blue. If there is no law against it then the prosecution will fail. Eventually, the people will toss him out of office for wasting tax-payer funds.




If you are ever investigated/prosecuted for somethin gyou didn't do/are not guilty of, you will change your tune!



Huh?




I think he's implying that 'eventually' is a long, long time to wait, for the people who get charged with the non-crime of carrying a gun, and have to wade through the legal system to prove their innocence.




Exactly! If you get wrongly prosecuted, it's not like the "wrongful prosecution mermaid" comes to your rescue. You end up paying big money for legal fees and likely losing your job and friends etc before you prove that you're in the right. You're fooked no matter what.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:05:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:08:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Exactly! If you get wrongly prosecuted, it's not like the "wrongful prosecution mermaid" comes to your rescue. You end up paying big money for legal fees and likely losing your job and friends etc before you prove that you're in the right. You're fooked no matter what.



And it doesn't cost that asshat Rosenthal anything - he's using tax money against you!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:09:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Why should you care?
If you live in a state with shall issue carry permits I can see no good reason why you dont have one.






I don't have mine yet.... because Texas is the most expensive state to get one in! $100-150 for the class, and $140 for the application fee. I need damn near $300 to get it, and a whole day off with which to take the class.

Yeah, I can do it without much problem... and I really need to...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:12:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I think he's implying that 'eventually' is a long, long time to wait, for the people who get charged with the non-crime of carrying a gun, and have to wade through the legal system to prove their innocence.



Ahh... I guess I should've clarified that his activities would be halted as soon as a court makes a ruling and that he'd be tossed eventually, by the people, afterward.



No prob - it's a sore spot for me.

I once got accused of a 'crime' that took place in central Mississippi while I was vacationing in Oklahoma.

It was a royal pain, and not an experience I'd wish upon anyone.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:17:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Why should you care?
If you live in a state with shall issue carry permits I can see no good reason why you dont have one.

A­nd the AG is asshat.




I understand what your saying captain. I've thought many times of getting a CHL (and may someday), but my problem is this -

I am too stubborn to ask the state for the priveledge of excercising my rights, I believe the 2nd preempts any other laws regarding arms. And, a priveledge can be taken away at the discretion of the grantor. Our Constitution wasn't meant to be that way.




I agree, but remember this, shall issue laws are part of our effort to get back rights that have been taken away. It's important to exercise these 'rights' lest we lose them again.
Filling out the paperwork for a carry permit is a small price to pay to rub it in their noses and at the same time make the world a little safer.

Strat, I'm on your side too and the side of my brothers in arms who may be procecuted under this bullshit order.
My point is that every person who possibly can should get a CWP just because you can.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:19:59 PM EDT
Travelling is going from one place to another, not just a trip with an overnight bag, across 3 counties, whatever.... You can still carry on your bike, horse, person, etc as long as you are going from one place to another, ie: travelling, it is a defense to prosecution. The new addendum to the law defines certain criteria to undo bullshit case law that has been contorted over the years - if you meet the criteria then you should not be prosecuted or arrested!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:28:42 PM EDT
I think the Houston DA is doing some a favor.

I thought I understood what the new law did, until there
were deeper legal thinkers than I that explained it to us
in a couple other threads at this site.

Now I realize the new law sucks. It may be a very small
step in the right direction, but it does not mean one can
carry in their car and not be hassled if caught. Unless there
is a CHL, which I have.

So the DA, if he were an RKBA kind of guy, could suggest that
the police stop arresting folks because he isn't going to waste
time prosecuting them - for simple carry of concealed weapon
in the vehicle.

Or the DA could keep his mouth shut, and trap and prosecute
many.

Or he could warn us that he is not a RKBA supporter, and the way
the crap law is worded he will prosecute at every opportunity.
This is what he is doing.

DanM
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:37:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Dupe from a couple of weeks ago (but don't sweat it).

His intentions are no different than if he were to start prosecuting people for smoking cigarettes, selling beer, writing critical opinion editorials, or wearing the color blue. If there is no law against it then the prosecution will fail. Eventually, the people will toss him out of office for wasting tax-payer funds.




If you are ever investigated/prosecuted for somethin gyou didn't do/are not guilty of, you will change your tune!



Huh?




I think he's implying that 'eventually' is a long, long time to wait, for the people who get charged with the non-crime of carrying a gun, and have to wade through the legal system to prove their innocence.



sorry for not being a little more clear, but yes - this kind of reckless prosecution should be stopped in a pro active manner, instead of just hoping voters will eventually toss him out. I am not familiar with the process for appointing prosecutors in TX, maybe he is not elected - not sure, but to sit back and just wait (and hope) he will be voted out is unacceptable. My comment above was meant to say that if the person had been the victim of this type of prosecution, he would be pro-actively trying to get rid of the guy.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:37:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Exactly! If you get wrongly prosecuted, it's not like the "wrongful prosecution mermaid" comes to your rescue. You end up paying big money for legal fees and likely losing your job and friends etc before you prove that you're in the right. You're fooked no matter what.



And it doesn't cost that asshat Rosenthal anything - he's using tax money against you!




B-I-N-G-O!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:43:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.




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