Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/8/2005 4:08:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:20:35 PM EDT by TacticalStrat]
Question 1: What's gonna happen when the fire hits the ammo? Would there be any danger to nearby houses and the Firemen trying to put out the fire?


Question 2: I've heard that Firemen won't even try to put out the fire if you tell them you have large amounts of ammo in your house. Is there any truth to that?


Question 3: Does it matter if the ammo is in ammo cans?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:10:00 PM EDT
IIRC the cases will just split open.. no real danger.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:12:03 PM EDT
yup, split cases. Sounds kinda like a firecracker. Whole bunch of small flare-ups
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:12:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:15:12 PM EDT
It'll make a ka-boom larger than any Glock.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:17:21 PM EDT
A cartridge in a fire doesn't present much of a threat. The case will split, maybe the bullet will pop out (it's not going very far or very fast), and maybe it won't. At worst, you'll get a piece of shrapnel in you if there's a lot of rounds going off in an enclosed space. Wear eye protection and enjoy the fireworks.

Now if you're a reloader or use a lot of muzzleloaders... Then I'd start to worry.

Basically, if you have a house burn down with 10,000 rounds of ammunition in it, you just lost a house and 10,000 rounds of ammunition. No massively spectacular explosions, sorry.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:17:59 PM EDT
I had a fire in my basement where my reloading bench was. I had 400 rounds on the bench, 4000 primers and 10 pounds of powder. One primer tube blew up and the powder in my powder check die burned off but I had no issues with the ammo. The powder was stored on the bottom shelf of my bench so the container melted but did not go up.

The fire department was a little pissed that my wife did not tell them what was in the basement but oh well. No one was hurt. I was supprised that the fire department was more concerned with the ammo rather than the primers. I think the case of primers was a much bigger issue than the ammo. The ammo got real hot and did not go off. The plastic cases melted away from the rounds they were left in pool of plastic.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:18:58 PM EDT
Although I would be a little concerned about ammo in sealed containers (ie: ammo cans). But a little knowledge about where it is would let the responding units attack the fire differently. I wouldn't expect them to bail completely.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:20:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:22:20 PM EDT by ZW17]
I say BS to all that posted above. As a ex-firefighter that witnessed a house fire in PA that the owner had an unknown amount of ammo stored in his upstairs bedroom, I can say with great confidence that a round will cook off and fire, explode, crack, or whatever you want to call it with enough force to kill a man.

In this particular fire we all were forced to take cover at the advice of the local PD and upon doing so a round struck a stop sign not 15' from me with enough force to go through it.

That was my first (and last) hand experience with ammo in a house fire.


ETA - I took a pic of the sign the next morning, I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:20:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:24:55 PM EDT by Daytona955i]
When the rounds cook off the force throws stuff in all directions, instead of just the one that the cartridge was designed for (down the barrel). So the force is drastically reduced because nothing is locked in place.

Worst case scenario, the bullets and shells will bounce off you. ETA: (If you're in turn out gear. I wouldn't suggest just walking around by it, you'll poke your eye out kid.)
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:25:26 PM EDT
The only ammo that in dangerous in a house fire is that which is loaded in the cmaber of a weapon or revolver cylender. Ammo than is not in a weapon will pop with enough force to split the case, or push the primer or bullet from the case. Nothing more.

Cans off spray paint, and even canned food explode with more forse in a house fire. Your BBQ grills propane tank, cleaning solvents, lawnmower gas, ect is more dangerous than my ammo stash in a fire.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:25:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:26:47 PM EDT by Pangea]

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I say BS to all that posted above. As a ex-firefighter that witnessed a house fire in PA that the owner had an unknown amount of ammo stored in his upstairs bedroom, I can say with great confidence that a round will cook off and fire, explode, crack, or whatever you want to call it with enough force to kill a man.

In this particular fire we all were forced to take cover at the advice of the local PD and upon doing so a round struck a stop sign not 15' from me with enough force to go through it.

That was my first (and last) hand experience with ammo in a house fire.


ETA - I took a pic of the sign the next morning, I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.




From how far? What is the range of this magical uncontained projectile?

eta Looks like Old_Painless has a Fire Box-O-Truth to test.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:26:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
Question 1: What's gonna happen when the fire hits the ammo? Would there be any danger to nearby houses and the Firemen trying to put out the fire?


Question 2: I've heard that Firemen won't even try to put out the fire if you tell them you have large amounts of ammo in your house. Is there any truth to that?


Question 3: Does it matter if the ammo is in ammo cans?



In Canada ( at leas in Ontario) that is the truth.

Limbo: By our stupid law we are supposed to inform local firemen of ammo or powder on premises. Firefighters can refuse to fight fire if they know that ammo is inside. If you don't inform them you will be charged of endangerment of life. If you report that you have powder and bulleties, and fireshit happens, bet its gonna burn cause no yellow helmet is gonna volounteer cause he does not have to.

When you report to them that you have stuff they automatically put you on a bulletin board as a hazardous site and every unit is advised to not to go there if a call ever comes in.

This is how it works in Toronto.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:31:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I say BS to all that posted above. As a ex-firefighter that witnessed a house fire in PA that the owner had an unknown amount of ammo stored in his upstairs bedroom, I can say with great confidence that a round will cook off and fire, explode, crack, or whatever you want to call it with enough force to kill a man.

In this particular fire we all were forced to take cover at the advice of the local PD and upon doing so a round struck a stop sign not 15' from me with enough force to go through it.

That was my first (and last) hand experience with ammo in a house fire.


ETA - I took a pic of the sign the next morning, I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.





I'm kinda skeptical of that. I've burned plenty of (obviously defective -- bashed in, split cases, primers that didn't do their job, etc) rounds in an old, almost-rusted through 55 gallon drum / trash can and while the "pop" is a bit more than a firecracker, it didn't puncture the barrel.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:33:56 PM EDT
I watched a truck burn with 10-12 cases
of ammo in the bed . Lot's of popping and
flare ups, but nothing made it more then
5-10 feet from the truck .

Looking through the debris afterwards
about 20% of the rounds were mostly
intact with the primers blown out .
There was also 2-3 Lb puddle of lead
that collected in the downhill corner
of the truck bed .
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:34:17 PM EDT
It's the primer that'll pop out with force, not the bullet. The bullet weights many times more than the primer. But the bunker gear will protect the fireman from the impact of the primer.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:36:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I say BS to all that posted above. As a ex-firefighter that witnessed a house fire in PA that the owner had an unknown amount of ammo stored in his upstairs bedroom, I can say with great confidence that a round will cook off and fire, explode, crack, or whatever you want to call it with enough force to kill a man.

In this particular fire we all were forced to take cover at the advice of the local PD and upon doing so a round struck a stop sign not 15' from me with enough force to go through it.

That was my first (and last) hand experience with ammo in a house fire.


ETA - I took a pic of the sign the next morning, I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.





I'm kinda skeptical of that. I've burned plenty of (obviously defective -- bashed in, split cases, primers that didn't do their job, etc) rounds in an old, almost-rusted through 55 gallon drum / trash can and while the "pop" is a bit more than a firecracker, it didn't puncture the barrel.



Is it at all possible that the round came from a loaded gun in the fire ?
Would it make a difference ?

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:37:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I say BS to all that posted above. As a ex-firefighter that witnessed a house fire in PA that the owner had an unknown amount of ammo stored in his upstairs bedroom, I can say with great confidence that a round will cook off and fire, explode, crack, or whatever you want to call it with enough force to kill a man.

In this particular fire we all were forced to take cover at the advice of the local PD and upon doing so a round struck a stop sign not 15' from me with enough force to go through it.

That was my first (and last) hand experience with ammo in a house fire.


ETA - I took a pic of the sign the next morning, I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.




What you claim is at odds with scientific experiments conducted by the NRA and SAAMI. I have personally burned off many hundreds of rounds of duds and reloading miscues by throwing them in a juice can and placing it in a fire. Not a single projectile ever left the can.

saami.org/publications.html#primers

Sporting Ammunition and the Firefighter, a video produced by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, analyzes the characteristics associated with small arms ammunition when it is subjected to severe impact and fire. When a primer ignites, it causes the propellant to burn, which creates gases which, when under pressure in a firearm, send the bullet down the barrel. Pressure created by the propellant being burned is what discharges a bullet. As such, loose ammunition in a fire does not result in bullets being discharged because the propellant is not burning under pressure. The video, which has been widely circulated to fire departments, concludes that while ammunition produces a popping sound when it burns, there is no mass detonation of the ammunition, any projectiles are of low velocity, and there is no threat to firefighters in their standard turn-out gear.


Now a round in the chamber of a gun that cooks off is the same as it being fired by pulling the trigger...
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:43:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:48:32 PM EDT by ZW17]

Originally Posted By sam1963:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I say BS to all that posted above. As a ex-firefighter that witnessed a house fire in PA that the owner had an unknown amount of ammo stored in his upstairs bedroom, I can say with great confidence that a round will cook off and fire, explode, crack, or whatever you want to call it with enough force to kill a man.

In this particular fire we all were forced to take cover at the advice of the local PD and upon doing so a round struck a stop sign not 15' from me with enough force to go through it.

That was my first (and last) hand experience with ammo in a house fire.


ETA - I took a pic of the sign the next morning, I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.





I'm kinda skeptical of that. I've burned plenty of (obviously defective -- bashed in, split cases, primers that didn't do their job, etc) rounds in an old, almost-rusted through 55 gallon drum / trash can and while the "pop" is a bit more than a firecracker, it didn't puncture the barrel.



Is it at all possible that the round came from a loaded gun in the fire ?
Would it make a difference ?




A very real posibility but we never heard back about it. The fire destoyed the house to the ground.


ETA - After taking time to read up on this topic I would conclude that it was fired out of a loaded gun. It only makes sense.

This incident happened over 10 years ago and the more I think about it the more I remember. The only thing I saw and heard get hit was that stop sign and the rest of the night we could hear the ammo cooking off but no sounds it striking anything. Still scary as hell though.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:46:59 PM EDT
IIRC, the typical result is "sput---sputsputsput---sput-----------sput-sput--sput-----sput" et c.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:55:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
IIRC, the typical result is "sput---sputsputsput---sput-----------sput-sput--sput-----sput" et c.



Kinda reminds you trying to spit out a pubic hair, huh?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:04:20 PM EDT
I was once fighting a house fire and had a 30-30 round cook off. The damn casing came through the window and landed about 25 feet away from the house in the street. I doubt it had enough force behind it to kill or seriously injury, but it was traveling good enough to hurt like a sumbitch if it had hit someone.

That was the only experience I've had in 10 years of fire fighting in which a casing, bullet or primer left the structure, that I was aware of anyway. Usually they just pop in place and don't go far.

I suppose there's always the exception from time to time, therefore that's why I always wear my bunker gear when I'm on the scene (even if I'm not active in the operations). And I always keep on my goggles. Better safe than sorry.
Top Top