Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 10/30/2006 4:02:12 PM EST
The real estate market graveyard is littered with these shattered souls...

---------------------------------------------------


10 mistakes that made flipping a flop

By Noelle Knox, USA TODAY



More USA TODAY
Strong Messages Get Girls to Wait on MotherhoodMinority Enrollment in College Still LaggingSeniors Fret Over Changes in Medicare Drug ProgramStudents, Officials Locking Horns Over BlogsBush Warns Opponents Not to Celebrate EarlyUpdated: 10/23/2006 07:04

If there's a poster child for everything that went wrong in the real estate boom, it just might be Casey Serin.

In one year, the 24-year-old website-designer-turned-real estate-flipper bought eight homes in four states - and in every case but one, he put no money down. At his peak, in April, Serin had $93,000 he'd taken out of the homes as he bought them. By July, he was broke, desperate for one last deal.

Now? Serin has $140,000 in credit card and credit-line debt and five houses in foreclosure. Last month, he started iamfacingforeclosure.com, a blog that's drawn both notes of condolence and expletive-laced condemnation.

"I did some stuff shady, but I'm not going to hide from it," he says. "Somebody can learn from it. I've already had people contact me and say, 'Hey, I'm in the same place.' "

The rise and fall of Casey Serin is a tale with moral and financial lessons for real estate buyers, lenders and regulators. Having consumed real estate guides and seminars, Serin made just about every mistake a newbie could make - most of them, he admits, were no one's fault but his own - from fudging loan applications to buying homes sight-unseen. That he began with bold dreams of class mobility makes his fall a peculiarly American saga.

Serin didn't know much about real estate at 19, when he bought his first condo. As a website designer, Serin was earning $35,000 a year at S.M.A.R.T. Association, a maker of marketing systems for health care providers. He quit to start his own Web-design company but couldn't earn enough to cover his mortgage. So he moved in with his parents and sold the condo a few months later. His profit: $30,000.

"My goal was to reinvest that money," Serin says. "But I also needed a car. My car was falling apart. I used some of it to keep me going, and for living expenses and things. And I used some of it to go on dates."

He also stopped working for three months.

By the time he married in 2004, the money was gone. He and his wife used credit cards to cover living costs because Serin's business wasn't bringing in enough money. When he found a job that summer as a Web designer, the couple had piled up nearly $20,000 in card debt, half of which they'd spent on real estate courses.

He bought Carleton Sheets' No Down Payment real estate program and attended seminars by Russ Whitney, author of The Millionaire Real Estate Mindset, and others.

"Sure, they used pressure sales tactics to get you into it, but looking back on it, I don't regret it," he says. "They told me how to start safe, but I really didn't start safe. I went all out. So it was my own fault."

As with all investors, Serin's goal was to build wealth. He was intrigued by Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money - That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!

"My eyes were opening up: 'Oh, OK, this is how the world works.' "

Mistake No. 1

Using 'liar loans'

In October 2005, Serin was desperate to pay off credit cards. But he was eager, too, to put his real estate training to use. He sought "a motivated seller - someone who wants to sell quick and doesn't mind giving a discount to get the deal done."

He found a Sacramento couple who'd twice cut the price on their home and were asking $360,000. Aware that the market was softening, Serin successfully bid $330,000, including his closing costs. But he also wanted to pay off his credit cards. So he took out a $360,000 mortgage and asked the sellers to give him $30,000 in cash once the deal closed.

"I was able to qualify for the loan at 100% financing," Serin says. "I used a 'stated-income loan.' It was really higher than I was making, so it was a 'liar loan' - that's what they call them in the industry."

Stated-income loans were created to help people with variable incomes, like commission-sales jobs, qualify for mortgages. Lenders require little or no proof of income, but they charge a higher interest rate to compensate for the risk. Stated-income loans have grown in pricey areas where traditional buyers are stretching past debt-to-income lending ratios, and some lenders turn a blind eye.

In California, 75% of purchase loans this year have little or no documentation of income, up from 34% in 2000, First American LoanPerformancesays.

But Serin also deceived the bank by saying he'd live in the home. Banks typically charge higher rates and require larger down payments for investment properties.

"Lying on a mortgage application is a federal crime," says Joseph Falk of the National Association of Mortgage Brokers. "It includes bank fraud, wire fraud and mail fraud and potentially a host of state offenses. This can result in jail time."

At the time, though, Falk says some lenders were willing to ease their criteria for borrowers because, with housing prices surging, they knew they likely wouldn't lose money even if the loan went bad.

Mistake No. 2

Overpaying

Serin flipped the Sacramento house immediately, and agreed to purchase the buyer's old house. But Serin's buyer needed to put 20% down and had to pay a penalty to the bank for paying off his mortgage early. So Serin helped him out at his own expense.

"I paid too much for his house," he concedes. And since he'd already used cash from the first house to pay off credit cards, Serin took out a $10,000 credit line for repairs on the buyer's old house.

Mistake No. 3

Lacking cash

Serin put the second house on the market but lacked the money for the $2,500 monthly mortgage, plus his rent and payments on the credit line. So he rented the house with an option to buy it later. Acting in haste, he rented to tenants who could pay just $1,400 a month.

"I got desperate," he says. "I couldn't flip it, and I had to stop the bleeding."

Mistake No. 4

Quitting your day job

"Now, I'm thinking I've got negative cash flow, I've got the credit line. I need to do more deals."

As the California real estate market hit the skids in late 2005, investors began looking in such states as New Mexico, Texas and Utah, where prices were still climbing. Serin, with dreams of becoming a full-time investor, decided to take three weeks off work in January and go to New Mexico.

"My goal was this: to find enough deals in three weeks that I could put under (a sales) contract ... so I could have enough in the pipeline so that it's safe for me to quit my job. If I can't get anything out there, then I go back to my job. But in my mind, I was already succeeding, and I wasn't looking back." He bought two homes in New Mexico with no money down and liar loans. He took back $20,000 in cash - enough to carry his payments for a while. Back in Sacramento, he gave two weeks' notice.

Mistake No. 5

Hiring an unlicensed contractor

Serin next bought a house in Modesto, Calif., that he'd found through the Internet. The deal was packaged by a "wholesaler." A wholesaler finds an under-priced home, puts it under contract and then transfers it to an investor in exchange for a fee of $5,000 to $15,000.

The house was appraised at $380,000; Serin paid $323,000, including closing costs and $15,000 he got back from the seller. The wholesaler "told me the repairs that needed to be done, but it was a lot more than he described."

Serin hired a contractor, but when he sought the license number, he couldn't find any records. The contractor said the work would take a month or two. After three months, the job was only half done and the contractor wanted more money.

Mistake No. 6

Buying sight-unseen

The sixth home Serin bought was in Utah. A developer had subdivided a tract and sold off the lots for custom homes. The last lot had a 25-year-old house on it.

"I bought it sight-unseen," Serin recalls. The developer "told me, 'It's outdated; you just have to update everything.' I didn't realize, not only is it outdated; it's awkward looking. ... Every room had a different color carpet. Some rooms had a photo-type wallpaper with nature scenes."

He realized that the $18,000 in cash he pulled out of the deal wouldn't begin to cover the renovation needed. He put the house back on the market and left town.

Mistake No. 7

Buying out of state

On the trip to see the Utah property, Serin stopped in New Mexico. One of the homes he'd bought there was rented; the other was on the market but not selling. Fearing he'd soon have to start paying the mortgage, Serin tried to rent it out with an option to buy. "I was even saying, 'You don't need to put anything down, just show me you have a good job, good credit and take over," he says. "But I couldn't do it fast enough. I was only there a week and a half."

Mistake No. 8

Buying too many properties too fast

The seventh house was near Sacramento.

"I basically used up all of the equity... and the market is already going down," Serin says. "But it made sense to me at the time because I'll take the $50,000 (cash back from the seller). I'm finding it takes a lot more money than I thought, and what if I run out of the money I already took out?"

The mounting financial pressure was getting to the young flipper. "I'm thinking about how to use the cash (backs) wisely and keep everything afloat," Serin says. "I realize I'm buying way too much. I'm not able to manage it all. And it just sort of happened. By April, I had six houses."

But he didn't stop buying. He was caught up in the frenzy.

Mistake No. 9

Underestimating remodeling costs

In May, he snatched up a house in Dallas. "I thought it was going to be my best deal so far, because of the spread," he says.

The wholesaler said the property was appraised at $310,000, and the owners would sell it for $190,000, but it had to close quickly. Unable to get another loan so fast, Serin went to a private lender, who appraised the property at $275,000. To get the loan, Serin had to put down $30,000 and put $30,000 more into escrow to cover the needed repairs.

Sight unseen, Serin went for it.

When he finally saw it, he said, "The layout was weird. There was a garage conversion, which I knew about, but because of my inexperience I didn't know the garage conversion kills it because very few people want an extra room. Most people want the garage."

Serin thought he could renovate the property for $15,000.

"I ended up spending $30,000," he said. "It ended up being a monster."

His bank balance was dwindling. Serin was also burning cash traveling between his properties. He purses his lips and inhales sharply. "That's the sound I was hearing."

Mistake No. 10

Having a poor exit strategy

Having just read How to Sell Your Home in 5 Days by Bill Effros, Serin flew to New Mexico in June and auctioned the vacant house in one week, eking out a tiny profit. He tried it a week later in Texas. A disaster. Just three low bids.

By July, Serin was out of cash and living off credit cards. He took out more lines of credit to try to keep pace with his mortgages. He wanted to go for one last deal in New Mexico. His wife saw copies of the letters he'd written to the banks.

"She's like, 'I don't want no fishy business.' "Part of me is like, 'Well, I know it's not right. I know I'm lying to the banks, but I've got to do what I've got to do. I got into this mess. I've got to get out somehow.' And it was like, once you make one lie, you've got to keep lying, in a way."

His last loan was rejected, and Serin hit bottom. The bills for his mortgages and other debts total $20,000 a month. He's says he's determined to pay off his loans. He's considering bankruptcy, restructuring the loans and trying to get another Web-design job.

Serin's current situation is bleak. He is currently unemployed as is his wife, who has gone back to college to get an accounting degree. They rent an apartment and have $140,000 in debt, and the remaining five houses he owns are facing foreclosure.

Yet, ever the optimist, he says, "There might be some other possibilities in the works right now for some additional real estate deals that would be completely aboveboard and allow me to make some money.

"There are some wholesaling opportunities where you find a contract and sell it to another investor. You can make 5, 10 or 15 grand on that stuff. That's enough to almost carry it for a month."
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:07:01 PM EST
[Nelson].............HA..HA.............[Nelson]
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:18:05 PM EST
Greed is always the problem. It looks to me that this guy got greedy. Kinda like the dotcom mess a few years back.

Max
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:23:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 4:25:34 PM EST by pale_pony]
I see lots of SAR's (Suspicious Activity Reports) from his lenders to the FBI coming in his near future...<insert "Fedaeral Pound You In The Azz Prison" joke here?


Edited to add: Strike the prior comment. What happened here is basically what happend with the McDougals and the Klintons with the White Water Land Development deal...only when it tanked it took the S&L down with it. No one went to jail, though.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:27:12 PM EST
No pity from me for people looking to get-rich without the 'heavy-lifting'

There are tons of similiar stories of 'day-traders' in late '90s who quit their jobs because they were 'geniuses' at trading tech stocks

These are probably some of the same people losing again in real-estate.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:32:57 PM EST
Hmmm...

He LIED in the loan applications...

Maybe a stint as a jailbird would be appropriate
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:43:32 PM EST
Nothings free
You cant get something for nothing
Theres a sucker born every minuite
If it seems too god to be true, it probably is.
If its such a good deal why are they telling everybody?
A fool and his money are soon parted.
easy come easy go.
If your looking around the poker table and you cant figure out who the sucker is --you're it!

Etc. so-on and so forth the old axioms of wisdom are just as true today as they ever were.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:44:03 PM EST
I love these heart warming stories.

Sepuku is the only decent exit strategy available to him now.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:07:26 PM EST
Stupidity makes for good comedy. No money, lie to get loans for 10 houses across the country, don't look at any of them prior to buying, lose money on all of them, quits his job in the middle of the house buying, payments for mortages and credit cards totalling $20K monthly, the houses he still has are about to be foreclosed, and he's looking at trying his hand in real estate again. I predict that his wife, as a future acountant, will be leaving him soon.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:08:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2841USMC: [Nelson].............HA..HA.............[Nelson]
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:14:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
No pity from me for people looking to get-rich without the 'heavy-lifting'

There are tons of similiar stories of 'day-traders' in late '90s who quit their jobs because they were 'geniuses' at trading tech stocks

These are probably some of the same people losing again in real-estate.



ding ding ding ding ding! we have a winner!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:20:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem. It looks to me that this guy got greedy. Kinda like the dotcom mess a few years back.

Max


+1. Many people got greedy, and now they're all paying.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:23:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
I see lots of SAR's (Suspicious Activity Reports) from his lenders to the FBI coming in his near future...<insert "Fedaeral Pound You In The Azz Prison" joke here?


Edited to add: Strike the prior comment. What happened here is basically what happend with the McDougals and the Klintons with the White Water Land Development deal...only when it tanked it took the S&L down with it. No one went to jail, though.


I see the Bank Examaniers looking over the institutions controls apparatus, the time for them to be filing SARs is long past.......................they were an integral part to these shenanigens.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:28:46 PM EST
Greed

But give this thred time and someone will come along and defend the guy. And be upset that we would say the guy had it coming.....
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:46:01 PM EST
this gives me hope

if this moron can get a loan for that many houses, I should be able to swing a loan for one myself :P

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 9:38:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all evil......"
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:04:58 PM EST
The sad thing is this dumb ass will probably breed too.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:14:04 PM EST
Stupid is as stupid does.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:19:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 10:19:40 PM EST by Chairborne]
That's impossible, everybody knows you can't lose money in real estate!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:26:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all evil......"


Careful, there are alot of guys on this board who are very guilty of that sin.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:37:54 PM EST
This kid is a self-serving POS and where did he get the attitude? Why does he think he can DO WHAT HE HAS TO DO? We read this a few days ago in the USA Today and you would of at least figured that the writer would call the kid out as the lying, self centered, solipsistic jerk off. She must be on the same page as he is in more ways than one. The only thing good to come out of this is his credit is in free fall and the banks are as negligent as he is. The problem is that we the people will end up bailing them out. Thanks a lot.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:57:16 PM EST
[itsawonderfullife] "George.....the Bank Examiner is here..."[/itsawonderfullife]
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 12:22:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 12:25:37 AM EST by hatebreed]
I don't understand how you could be 140,000 in debt and own five houses and be worried. If he can't pull a total of 28 grand out of each house he must have been buying some serious piles. Maybe I misunderstand the article.


edit: Also, how the hell are his bills 20 grand a month for 140k in debt?

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 1:15:36 AM EST
Looks like he bought into every real estate "systems" except the identical twin midgets and that loud Vietnamese guy on late night TV.

"She's like... Part of me is like... And it was like..."
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 1:39:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By hatebreed:
I don't understand how you could be 140,000 in debt and own five houses and be worried. If he can't pull a total of 28 grand out of each house he must have been buying some serious piles. Maybe I misunderstand the article.


edit: Also, how the hell are his bills 20 grand a month for 140k in debt?



I don't think the 140K was including the mortgages- it was seperate lines of credit, credit card debt etc..., typically high interest type loans, plus 5 mortgage payments....20K a month pretty easy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 2:00:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all evil......"


millions of poor people chanting crap like this can't be wrong.

I am sick of this "rich people are evil" mentality. Love of Money is not the root of evil. Jealousy and laziness of stupid fucks who can't figure out how to make a buck is the root of evil. It is the root of communism, it is the root of socialism, it is the core of everything that is wrong with the world.

How many jobs have YOU created? How many homes have YOU provided? How many mouths have YOU fed? I am pretty sure it is nowhere the amount that Trump, Gates, et al have, hell, I am small time and I probably have provided more than you.

All you whiney little brats complaining about your landlords and how much you hate them, yet you are the one stupid enough to be paying someone else's mortgage payment. You bitch about your boss's or owners of the company you work for but he is the one paying for you to sit on your ass and post on ARFCOM all day.

I can't believe the entitlement mentality that you assholes have here. You run around thinking "I am better than him, why does he have all the cool stuff and money?" It is because he took a risk and it paid off. it is because he was probably too stupid to listen to whiney little bitches who told him it would not work and it paid off. Who is more of an idiot, this guy who messed up flipping houses, or you, sitting in your apartment and never taking a chance? My Dad laughed when he was offered the two properties across the street for 10k each. He called the neighbor an IDiot for buying them. HE cried when they sold for 100k each just a few years later. Who is the Moron?

I have been through this a dozen times with my family and friends and tenants. My family think I an crazy to buy rentals(like driving to work and working 40 hours a week isn't?), my friends don't think it will work, and my tenants hate me because I am their age and more successful than then and they cannot fathom that I bought their home for what they spend on coffee, cigs, and beer in a year (and then wonder why they are poor).

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 2:55:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:
...
I am sick of this "rich people are evil" mentality...

Sing it, brother! Just not so long-winded.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 2:59:55 AM EST
Yep, greed will bite you in the ass everytime. I really can't feel sorry for this guy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:11:09 AM EST
Greed is one thing. Stupidity and complete lack of business ethics is another.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:22:45 AM EST

Yet, ever the optimist, he says, "There might be some other possibilities in the works right now for some additional real estate deals that would be completely aboveboard and allow me to make some money.

"There are some wholesaling opportunities where you find a contract and sell it to another investor. You can make 5, 10 or 15 grand on that stuff. That's enough to almost carry it for a month."


Yup, that's the thinking of a man with an addiction problem.

He is 140k in personal CC debt, facing foreclosures on seven (?) houses, certain personal bankruptcy (he didn't incorporate and purchase under corp/LLC I assume) and, if his luck has really run out, a bank will pursue criminal charges on the falsified loan applications because they got stuck with his foreclosures.

If he quits completely today, he may be only screwed for the next 10 to 15 years.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:28:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By tozar:

Yet, ever the optimist, he says, "There might be some other possibilities in the works right now for some additional real estate deals that would be completely aboveboard and allow me to make some money.

"There are some wholesaling opportunities where you find a contract and sell it to another investor. You can make 5, 10 or 15 grand on that stuff. That's enough to almost carry it for a month."


Yup, that's the thinking of a man with an addiction problem.

He is 140k in personal CC debt, facing foreclosures on seven (?) houses, certain personal bankruptcy (he didn't incorporate and purchase under corp/LLC I assume) and, if his luck has really run out, a bank will pursue criminal charges on the falsified loan applications because they got stuck with his foreclosures.

If he quits completely today, he may be only screwed for the next 10 to 15 years.


Negative. He will write a book about his experience. A soul-searching, tear-jerking tome. It will be an Oprah book club selection. He will make tons of money. He will quickly lose said money, and try to start over. In the real estate market.

You heard it here first.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:39:34 AM EST
Actually the FIRST mistake he made was reading and believing that Rich Dad Poor Dad guy. That guy's a scam artist.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:41:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all sorts of evil......"


Corrected
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:22:49 AM EST
We all work and want what money can buy. However, when you are willing to break laws, lie, and steal it get it that is when GREED and the desire for wealth has gotten the best of you. This guy was just stupid trying to make a easy buck and is now paying the consiquences.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:36:21 AM EST
He's got enthusiasm and passion but no wisdom.

Give him ten more years and he MIGHT make something of himself.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:55:18 AM EST
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:59:12 AM EST
So he quit his day job to get into a market he has no experience in and no start-up capital.

Brilliant.

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:10:52 AM EST
Let me get this straight - he was making $35K a year, then quit his job to start working for his own company. His company makes no $ so he decides to buy 7 houses? What a fucking idiot.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:16:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Let me get this straight - he was making $35K a year, then quit his job to start working for his own company. His company makes no $ so he decides to buy 7 houses? What a fucking idiot.


I wonder what his wife is thinking.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:25:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Let me get this straight - he was making $35K a year, then quit his job to start working for his own company. His company makes no $ so he decides to buy 7 houses? What a fucking idiot.


I wonder what his wife is thinking.


My wife would crush my balls, and rightfully so, if I tried something like that.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:26:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 6:28:23 AM EST by red65]

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all evil......"


millions of poor people chanting crap like this can't be wrong.

I am sick of this "rich people are evil" mentality. Love of Money is not the root of evil. Jealousy and laziness of stupid fucks who can't figure out how to make a buck is the root of evil. It is the root of communism, it is the root of socialism, it is the core of everything that is wrong with the world.

How many jobs have YOU created? How many homes have YOU provided? How many mouths have YOU fed? I am pretty sure it is nowhere the amount that Trump, Gates, et al have, hell, I am small time and I probably have provided more than you.

All you whiney little brats complaining about your landlords and how much you hate them, yet you are the one stupid enough to be paying someone else's mortgage payment. You bitch about your boss's or owners of the company you work for but he is the one paying for you to sit on your ass and post on ARFCOM all day.

I can't believe the entitlement mentality that you assholes have here. You run around thinking "I am better than him, why does he have all the cool stuff and money?" It is because he took a risk and it paid off. it is because he was probably too stupid to listen to whiney little bitches who told him it would not work and it paid off. Who is more of an idiot, this guy who messed up flipping houses, or you, sitting in your apartment and never taking a chance? My Dad laughed when he was offered the two properties across the street for 10k each. He called the neighbor an IDiot for buying them. HE cried when they sold for 100k each just a few years later. Who is the Moron?

I have been through this a dozen times with my family and friends and tenants. My family think I an crazy to buy rentals(like driving to work and working 40 hours a week isn't?), my friends don't think it will work, and my tenants hate me because I am their age and more successful than then and they cannot fathom that I bought their home for what they spend on coffee, cigs, and beer in a year (and then wonder why they are poor).




???

did you read the article?

this kid is a self-serving dimwitted liar who bought a bunch of houses literally at random and then further completely mismanaged the personal debt situation resulting in a complete and total failure.

the only thing you could use this story for is an example of exactly what NOT to do.

And you figure we're supposed to applaud his brave spirit of adventure.


this fucker didn't build a transcontinental railroad, he tried to get rich quick in a crazy, once in a lifetime bubble real estate market after it already cooled off.

voluntarily jobless bubble market speculators who commit fraud on bank loan applications and run up $50k in credit card debt are not exactly the guys who made america great.

hooray for him , what a guy, our hero
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:31:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Let me get this straight - he was making $35K a year, then quit his job to start working for his own company. His company makes no $ so he decides to buy 7 houses? What a fucking idiot.



well, according to some, he is a brave businessman who took a well considered and sober risk in the spirit of noble american nation building.



Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:36:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all evil......"


millions of poor people chanting crap like this can't be wrong.

*snip*



I think your vitriol is misplaced. Anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between someone being wealthy and someone simply being greedy. Buying rentals and making measured, responsible financial decisions is a far cry from what this kid did.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:38:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Let me get this straight - he was making $35K a year, then quit his job to start working for his own company. His company makes no $ so he decides to buy 7 houses? What a fucking idiot.


I wonder what his wife is thinking.


Since she married him in the middle of all this, and since she's studying acccounting instead of WORKING when neither of them have an income, I'd say she's in the same ballpark.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:46:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By maxell27:
Greed is always the problem.


The Bible says ".....the LOVE of money is the root of all evil......"


millions of poor people chanting crap like this can't be wrong.

I am sick of this "rich people are evil" mentality. Love of Money is not the root of evil. Jealousy and laziness of stupid fucks who can't figure out how to make a buck is the root of evil. It is the root of communism, it is the root of socialism, it is the core of everything that is wrong with the world.

How many jobs have YOU created? How many homes have YOU provided? How many mouths have YOU fed? I am pretty sure it is nowhere the amount that Trump, Gates, et al have, hell, I am small time and I probably have provided more than you.

All you whiney little brats complaining about your landlords and how much you hate them, yet you are the one stupid enough to be paying someone else's mortgage payment. You bitch about your boss's or owners of the company you work for but he is the one paying for you to sit on your ass and post on ARFCOM all day.

I can't believe the entitlement mentality that you assholes have here. You run around thinking "I am better than him, why does he have all the cool stuff and money?" It is because he took a risk and it paid off. it is because he was probably too stupid to listen to whiney little bitches who told him it would not work and it paid off. Who is more of an idiot, this guy who messed up flipping houses, or you, sitting in your apartment and never taking a chance? My Dad laughed when he was offered the two properties across the street for 10k each. He called the neighbor an IDiot for buying them. HE cried when they sold for 100k each just a few years later. Who is the Moron?

I have been through this a dozen times with my family and friends and tenants. My family think I an crazy to buy rentals(like driving to work and working 40 hours a week isn't?), my friends don't think it will work, and my tenants hate me because I am their age and more successful than then and they cannot fathom that I bought their home for what they spend on coffee, cigs, and beer in a year (and then wonder why they are poor).



That whizzing sound you hear is the point flying past you.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:50:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 9:49:41 AM EST by Javak]

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Let me get this straight - he was making $35K a year, then quit his job to start working for his own company. His company makes no $ so he decides to buy 7 houses? What a fucking idiot.


I wonder what his wife is thinking.


His best friend, the UPS guy, the milkman, the paperboy, or anyone with a brain, a real job and money that she will leave him for in a second.

The guy who wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad teamed up with Donald Trump in a new book. I bet this guy is reading it right now.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:51:13 AM EST
It's always interesting to see the difference between successful flippers and the losers..
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 7:09:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:
I am sick of this "rich people are evil" mentality.
There is nothing wrong with being rich. Technically, I'm rich, and I intend to get richer.

There is something wrong with being stupid. That's what this guy is. Fucking stupid. He didn't have a clue what he was doing. He didn't have money to spend. He defrauded the banks and came up short.

You can't take shortcuts like that and reasonably expect to come out on top.

The money I have now was made by my Great-Grandfather's real estate investments 75 years ago. There is alot of money to be made there if you know what you are doing. I wish I knew more about real estate.

Getting pissed off because you stay poor is stupid. So is going off on some elitist tirade, bitching about poor people. Here's a tip for you, that I got when I was a kid trying to understand owning rental property. Don't bitch about people renting from you. They are the reason you make money. If you let them, they'll keep paying you for the rest of their lives.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 8:12:32 AM EST
10 mistakes? I counted at least 30 mistakes there.

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 9:20:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By red65:
well, according to some, he is a brave businessman who took a well considered and sober risk in the spirit of noble american nation building.

I'm not sure where the hostility comes from here.
Yea--the guy lied and doesn't deserve a lot of sympathy for that--but he wanted to take a swing at real estate speculating, and he did that. He probably won't turn more than he owes now, but he just might come pretty close to breaking even. (this won't cover the money he's already lost, I realize...)

Speculating is not in itself dishonorable--lots of people do it. If you're getting paid for having money in anything, you are essentially speculating. The stock market, your bank savings account, your 401K. (-your bank may well be lending money to people like him-)

In many instances running a business is being in debt 45% of the time, breaking even even 50% of the time, and making a profit 5% of the time. The last 5% is the hardest to reach, but you rarely get to it without trying.
~
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 9:29:24 AM EST
Amazing.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top