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Posted: 10/4/2004 3:41:39 PM EST
www.gunowners.org/a100404.htm

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House 9/11 Bill Will Set Up A Database On All Americans, Create National ID Card

Gun Owners of America
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102
Springfield, VA 22151
(703)321-8585

Monday, October 4, 2004

What part of "Constitution" don't they understand?

In a frightening move, House Republicans -- members of the party that supposedly favors "limited government" -- are pushing an Orwellian nightmare in Congress in the name of "national security."

In the wake of the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, the Senate -- unlike the House -- has prepared legislation which would closely track that Commission's findings by reorganizing the intelligence services in the federal government. The Senate bill is relatively innocuous compared to the House version, HR 10.

Unfortunately, many of the so-called Republicans in the House are pushing this nightmarish legislation which would:

* Create a massive government database containing personal information on every American man, woman and child;
* Standardize (i.e., nationalize) the process of issuing driver's licenses -- thereby taking the final step toward creating a national ID card; and
* Set up a system whereby any employer or industry identified by the Attorney General would have to submit employment applicants to the government for approval -- complete with fingerprints or other "biometric identifiers."
Now, let's look at how each of these problems could affect your rights -- gun rights in particular:

(1) The government database is created by section 2173 of HR 10, a bill introduced by House Speaker Dennis Hastert. It would allow airline passengers to be screened against lists containing "all appropriate records." What would be "appropriate" would be within the exclusive discretion of the bureaucrats, but could include medical records, confidential financial records, library records, and gun records.

(2) The driver's license standards are in section 3052. They would allow the federal government to set standards as high as desired to determine who may or may not obtain a driver's license. Please note that you need a driver's license (or similarly regulated state-issued photo ID) to purchase a gun from a dealer. But, increasingly, you also need it to travel on any form of transportation (airplane, bus, train, car), to get a job, to open a checking account, to cash a check, to check into a hotel, to rent a car, or to purchase cigarettes or alcohol. If the federal government can set standards so high as to deny you a driver's license or photo ID, it has effectively turned you into a non-person.

(3) Section 2142 would allow the U.S. attorney general to promulgate any regulations he desires concerning (a) what employers must submit the names and fingerprints of all employment applicants to the FBI, (b) what standards the government will use in approving or disapproving the employment applicants, and (c) whether or not the government's "disapproval" will prevent the applicant from being hired.

There is nothing in section 2142 which would prohibit an anti-gun attorney general from (a) requiring the resumes and fingerprints of every employment applicant in the country, (b) disapproving them on the basis of gun ownership or, for that matter, any factor he viewed as not being politically correct, and (c) prohibiting any employer from hiring an applicant thus blacklisted.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:44:15 PM EST
have you read the bill? par for course the GOA is really going off the deepend with the chickenlittle stuff
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:48:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:49:50 PM EST
..and then, for your ID protection and conveinence, we will do away with the cards and just implant chips....


or better yet.....







Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:50:19 PM EST
And of course they got this by actually reading the bill and not just repeating what a friend of a friend's second cousin's boyfriend's imaginary friend's butt wart thought of it, right?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:29:55 PM EST
the US government does not have a plan to "enslave" the population. I dont care about an ID card only about forced implants. those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:41:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By McKenzie:
the US government does not have a plan to "enslave" the population. I dont care about an ID card only about forced implants. those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear

You need to read the bill....
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:42:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By McKenzie:
the US government does not have a plan to "enslave" the population. I dont care about an ID card only about forced implants. those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear



What color is the sky in YOUR world?

I for one REFUSE to live my life by that "nothing to hide" horseshit. The gooberment works for US. The gooberment is subserviant to the CITIZENS (or least that's the way it's SUPPOSED to be).

As for .gov plans you might want to think twice about that. Do you know that the Patriot Act was up for a vote in A MONTH after 9/11? Huge, complex package that was set up for a vote in ONE MONTH? You think a group of legislators burned the midnight oil for a few weeks and came up with THAT? Hell, they didn't even get a chance TO READ THE FUCKING THING. "Vote for this OR ELSE" was how it was presented.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:46:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By McKenzie:
the US government does not have a plan to "enslave" the population. I dont care about an ID card only about forced implants. those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear



You might not care about an ID card, but I do. Just as duck hunters didn't care about "assault weapons" it's people like you, apothetic little fucks that will lead this country into ruin. Remove your head from your fourth point of contact and apply some common sense to the situation. Once we get the national ID and that doesn't work, it won't be too far down the road until they'll want us chipped. Call me a tinfoil hat wearing nutjob if you want, I'll call you a sheeple and we'll see who's right in the end.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:47:00 PM EST
IDs make me feel important
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:48:27 PM EST
"papers please"
Fuck them.

If they try to do this it could get very interesting, in a bad way.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:50:23 PM EST
Im sorry folks, but what is the difference between a state issued and a national issued ID card? I mean, besides getting harassed by out of state cops
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:50:28 PM EST
It allready happen in Oklahoma they changed are driver lic finger prints for all class d lic and CDL is a full set of prints with a FBI background check. All so I work for a big company they made us all get a CDL by 2005 or no job. THIS IS know JOKE. I gave up my prints 8 year ago for a oklahoma CWL so I did not say much. IF they want my guns I will give them back ammo first.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:52:35 PM EST
But will Kalifornia and others give them to Illegal Aliens? Oh, sorry apparantly there are no "Illegal" aliens.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:56:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By MDC85:
Im sorry folks, but what is the difference between a state issued and a national issued ID card? I mean, besides getting harassed by out of state cops



That is the way I feel too. I am not happy about a national ID card but I figure I am already known by the FBI since I have a Colorado CHL.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:59:12 PM EST
Here's the deal. I've had my finger prints AND DNA on file for a number of years now, but that is NOT the point. I am a free man, not a fucking number in a system. If you want to flock to the National ID stations like a bunch of sheep have at it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:08:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 5:10:24 PM EST by warlord]
Does this bill include the implanting of a little ID chip underneath people's skin so that if you have the correct scanner you can read this number. If you don't have this ID chip, then you would denied entry, and be considered any illegal alien etc. Tracking criminals would be no problem. And you would never be lost because the system will know where you are at all times. It would be kind of like Star Trek-the Next Generation. And after you turn 30, then pufff! you're terminated, like in Logan's Run. That would be way too cool!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:14:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:
Does this bill include the implanting of a little ID chip underneath people's skin so that if you have the correct scanner you can read this number. If you don't have this ID chip, then you would denied entry, and be considered any illegal alien etc. Tracking criminals would be no problem. And you would never be lost because the system will know where you are at all times. It would be kind of like Star Trek-the Next Generation. And after you turn 30, then pufff! you're terminated, like in Logan's Run. That would be way too cool!



You've been in Kommiefornia too long. I do not want to be tracked, for any reason. I am not a criminal, I have nothing to "fear" but that is not the point. This is the United States of America, a once free country, no GATACA.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:15:51 PM EST


Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:20:49 PM EST
I refuse to be party to this outrage.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:26:58 PM EST
I just sent an email to my rep. Everybody do the same. Hopefully they'll get the message.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:33:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 5:38:44 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:
www.gunowners.org/a100404.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


House 9/11 Bill Will Set Up A Database On All Americans, Create National ID Card

Gun Owners of America
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102
Springfield, VA 22151
(703)321-8585

Monday, October 4, 2004

What part of "Constitution" don't they understand?

In a frightening move, House Republicans -- members of the party that supposedly favors "limited government" -- are pushing an Orwellian nightmare in Congress in the name of "national security."

In the wake of the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, the Senate -- unlike the House -- has prepared legislation which would closely track that Commission's findings by reorganizing the intelligence services in the federal government. The Senate bill is relatively innocuous compared to the House version, HR 10.

Unfortunately, many of the so-called Republicans in the House are pushing this nightmarish legislation which would:

* Create a massive government database containing personal information on every American man, woman and child;
* Standardize (i.e., nationalize) the process of issuing driver's licenses -- thereby taking the final step toward creating a national ID card; and
* Set up a system whereby any employer or industry identified by the Attorney General would have to submit employment applicants to the government for approval -- complete with fingerprints or other "biometric identifiers."
Now, let's look at how each of these problems could affect your rights -- gun rights in particular:

(1) The government database is created by section 2173 of HR 10, a bill introduced by House Speaker Dennis Hastert. It would allow airline passengers to be screened against lists containing "all appropriate records." What would be "appropriate" would be within the exclusive discretion of the bureaucrats, but could include medical records, confidential financial records, library records, and gun records.

(2) The driver's license standards are in section 3052. They would allow the federal government to set standards as high as desired to determine who may or may not obtain a driver's license. Please note that you need a driver's license (or similarly regulated state-issued photo ID) to purchase a gun from a dealer. But, increasingly, you also need it to travel on any form of transportation (airplane, bus, train, car), to get a job, to open a checking account, to cash a check, to check into a hotel, to rent a car, or to purchase cigarettes or alcohol. If the federal government can set standards so high as to deny you a driver's license or photo ID, it has effectively turned you into a non-person.

(3) Section 2142 would allow the U.S. attorney general to promulgate any regulations he desires concerning (a) what employers must submit the names and fingerprints of all employment applicants to the FBI, (b) what standards the government will use in approving or disapproving the employment applicants, and (c) whether or not the government's "disapproval" will prevent the applicant from being hired.

There is nothing in section 2142 which would prohibit an anti-gun attorney general from (a) requiring the resumes and fingerprints of every employment applicant in the country, (b) disapproving them on the basis of gun ownership or, for that matter, any factor he viewed as not being politically correct, and (c) prohibiting any employer from hiring an applicant thus blacklisted.




More from the libertarian crowd...

Where exactly is this unconstitutional? Assuming it's done in the name of national security, it's authorized (Provide for the common defense ring a bell?)...

Why is it a bad idea to combine Driver's License, SS Card, CCW, Pilot's License, Immigrant Status, and all other similar items into a single ID? And why not make it workable by adding a biometric identifyer (finger print) & encoded picture to prevent counterfieting & ID theft?

You do NOT have a right to anonymity... As long as they don't use it to impede your right to travel between the states, it's legit...

This is just common sense!

Social Security Cards allready ARE National ID. They're a really crappy, easily forged form of national ID, but they are one none the less...

So why not fix it? Why not make it HARDER for someone to wreck your credit by forging your ID?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:34:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 5:37:09 PM EST by Torf]


More from the libertarian crowd...

Where exactly is this unconstitutional? Assuming it's done in the name of national security, it's authorized...

Why is it a bad idea to combine Driver's License, SS Card, CCW, Pilot's License, and all other similar items into a single ID? And why not make it workable by adding a biometric identifyer (finger print) & encoded picture to prevent counterfieting & ID theft?

This is just common sense!



Uhh, none of those are required to live here.

Licensing, is one thing. It has long been accepted and established.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:48:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

More from the libertarian crowd...

Where exactly is this unconstitutional? Assuming it's done in the name of national security, it's authorized (Provide for the common defense ring a bell?)...

Why is it a bad idea to combine Driver's License, SS Card, CCW, Pilot's License, Immigrant Status, and all other similar items into a single ID? And why not make it workable by adding a biometric identifyer (finger print) & encoded picture to prevent counterfieting & ID theft?

You do NOT have a right to anonymity... As long as they don't use it to impede your right to travel between the states, it's legit...

This is just common sense!

Social Security Cards allready ARE National ID. They're a really crappy, easily forged form of national ID, but they are one none the less...

So why not fix it? Why not make it HARDER for someone to wreck your credit by forging your ID?



Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:54:29 PM EST
Social Security is still an optional program as well. It HAS BECOME a handy sort of National ID, but it isn't supposed to be used that way, nor does it work very well in this regard.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:55:26 PM EST


Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:58:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Torf:


More from the libertarian crowd...

Where exactly is this unconstitutional? Assuming it's done in the name of national security, it's authorized...

Why is it a bad idea to combine Driver's License, SS Card, CCW, Pilot's License, and all other similar items into a single ID? And why not make it workable by adding a biometric identifyer (finger print) & encoded picture to prevent counterfieting & ID theft?

This is just common sense!



Uhh, none of those are required to live here.

Licensing, is one thing. It has long been accepted and established.



SS is not optional... Hasn't been since the 60s... Every US citizen has one, there is no way to refuse it, and if you refuse to use it you cannot work, or get credit...
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:00:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Torf:
Social Security is still an optional program as well. It HAS BECOME a handy sort of National ID, but it isn't supposed to be used that way, nor does it work very well in this regard.



1) It's not optional, hasn't been since the 60s...

Everyone MUST pay SS tax

You MUST provide a SSN to work

You MUST provide one to get credit...

And yes, it's a poor form of ID, which is why it should be strengthened...
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:55:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Torf:
Social Security is still an optional program as well. It HAS BECOME a handy sort of National ID, but it isn't supposed to be used that way, nor does it work very well in this regard.



1) It's not optional, hasn't been since the 60s...

Everyone MUST pay SS tax

You MUST provide a SSN to work

You MUST provide one to get credit...

And yes, it's a poor form of ID, which is why it should be strengthened...



You are off your fuckin rocker. You do NOT have to have a SSN, you do NOT need to get your child a SSN if they are born in a hospital. You can even have a bank account w/o a SSN, you just can't draw interest on it.

The Amish do not pay SS tax, nor do they collect any form of assistance from the government.

Furthermore the SSN debacle is yet another example of the government not keeping its word. IT was said that your SSN would NOT be used for identification purposes. Ever served in the Armed Forces? You need one to join. You need one to conduct business wit hthe .gov etc. It's required (by saying your paperwork may not be processed w/o it) on nearly all government forms.

The price o freedom is eternal vigilance, not sitting on your sorry ass and letting the .gov protect you and make the sheeple fel safer via "national ID".
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