Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 10/31/2009 5:46:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 6:24:59 AM EST by Intimdtr77]
I have a Bradford-White TTW2 Energy Saver model. It's about 8 -13 years old (checking with the old home owner for an exact date) 15 years and it will not stay running.
I already replaced the Thermal Couple once a few weeks ago when this started. All was well for a few weeks.
Now out of the blue it starts back up again not running. When I light the pilot now the burner runs for a few seconds then shuts down again.
When the burner did finally stay on I noticed that exhaust fan turned on before I lit the pilot. The fan was not coming on the first few times the burner was lit.
Is there anything else I can try to avoid the $100 bill from the repair man? I have no problem replacing the tank on my own if that's what it takes, I was just hoping to avoid it until I had to do it.
Has the time come to replace it?
Is there something I should be checking on the fan motor to why it was not starting the first few times I lit the burner and pilot?


ETA: It seems I will be doing a hot water tank today, 15 years is a good run!!


UPDATE

Well after many, many issues, some self inflicted I have hot water again.
Just to give you the final run down:
I bought a new 40 gallon tank at Lowes. I brought it home. Hooked it up and realized something was not right.
First of all, where was the plug on the new tank like there was on my old one?
For starters the PLASTIC FLEX hose that that I hooked up to the exhaust got VERY hot when I lit the tank.
Secondly the plastic flex hose did not seat will on the exhaust, not like my other one that was SEALED WITH A HOSE CLAMP to the exhaust.
(Does anyone see where I am going here, it took me another trip to Lowes to figure it out)
I went back to Lowes to figure out what pieces I could use with my PLASTIC FLEX hose to get it to work.
I spoke with an employee about it and he showed me a few things. Before I left he said "Let's check with this guy, he's our plumber, he'll know."
Once I started talking to the new guy it was obvious he really new his stuff.
I went on to tell him about my predicament he said that I was all wrong! First and foremost I had the wrong tank.
I needed a powervent. He explained the differences between a standard hot water tank and a powervent one.
He went on to explain how either tank works and how they vent.
Standard tanks vent straight up and the wind over the top of the house sucks out the exhaust out, power vent shoot the exhaust out the side of the house. This made sense!
Needless to say, that was double the original cost. After we figured that out it was determined that the present set up with plastic flex hose was more then likely not code.
So yesterday (day 2 with no hot water) I went to the town hall, spoke with a code enforcement officer and confirmed what he said.
I ended up using simple PVC from the top of the fan on the new tank and attached it to the metal vent at the side of the house.
We determined that the old tank must have been changed form the original, it must have been moved before I or my friend (whom I bought the house form) moved in.
We figured the tank to be 18 years old. there was a born on date of 1991!
So, all the hook ups done. New flex gas line and flex water hoses installed. (which made it so much easier the second time I had to remove the wrong tank and install the right one)
I plugged in the fan and BAM, I hear the igniter and the new tank fires up!
All is well! Hot water has been restored to the Intimdtr77 house hold!
Here is a pic or two of the finished product.







Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:51:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 5:51:38 AM EST by ranchhand]
You can swap it out for a newer for efficient model for $300 or so. Around here it is not worth fixing one over 7 years old because it is rusted on the inside and will spring a leak any day.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:54:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By ranchhand:
You can swap it out for a newer for efficient model for $300 or so. Around here it is not worth fixing one over 7 years old because it is rusted on the inside and will spring a leak any day.


I agree, My water is so hard around here that hell after 8 years it time for a new one

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:54:47 AM EST
the bradford white is glass lined no rust, the pilot is likely almost stopped up it needs to be cleaned. If you don't have a the proper broach then just pay the service tech to clean it and adjust the burner.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:16:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
the bradford white is glass lined no rust, the pilot is likely almost stopped up it needs to be cleaned. If you don't have a the proper broach then just pay the service tech to clean it and adjust the burner.

my bet is on this also.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:22:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
the bradford white is glass lined no rust, the pilot is likely almost stopped up it needs to be cleaned. If you don't have a the proper broach then just pay the service tech to clean it and adjust the burner.

my bet is on this also.


Anything I can do?

I think I'll just replace it. $400 for a newer more efficient model is probably the right way to go.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:07:20 PM EST
After having a 10 year old tank leak and cost me hudreds of dollars of damage, and the second heater next to it about 1 mm away from also leaking, I'd say f it and replace the unit.

You can install yourself pretty easily and not wind up with a huge water mess on your hands

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:11:43 PM EST
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:49:45 PM EST
buy a new one and kill the old one with fire.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:51:05 PM EST
Seen that comercial with the redneck hot tub?
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:55:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.


This, about $10 at Lowes or HD, very easy to change.

They apparently "wear out" after a while, the one I replaced looked to be a bit burnt off on the end.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:55:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 3:56:14 PM EST by fxntime]
You have a bad inducer fan switch/solenoid or a bad fan. For the cost of replacement, you might as well buy a new water heater. Even of you have a bad thermostat/gas valve, they are pricy even at wholesale cost.

A decent Power Vented water heater will run you 5 or 600 bucks on up.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:22:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.


Second sentence in OP.

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:22:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By sniper7:
buy a new one and kill the old one with fire.


...or maybe with lead!
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:24:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.


Wait until you work on a left handed propane one.

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:26:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
You have a bad inducer fan switch/solenoid or a bad fan. For the cost of replacement, you might as well buy a new water heater. Even of you have a bad thermostat/gas valve, they are pricy even at wholesale cost.

A decent Power Vented water heater will run you 5 or 600 bucks on up.

This
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:30:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.


Wait until you work on a left handed propane one.


You could always test an themocouple if it tests at 10 to 12 millivolts when lit its good. Oh and Left handed thermocouples are the gay glad the recalled them.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:44:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By anotherhession:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.


Wait until you work on a left handed propane one.


You could always test an themocouple if it tests at 10 to 12 millivolts when lit its good. Oh and Left handed thermocouples are the gay glad the recalled them.


Should be closer to 30 MV. At 10 or 12 MV it's not strong enough to hold the safety.

The LH thermocouples still around are gold, I have a couple stashed away just in case.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:53:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
the bradford white is glass lined no rust, the pilot is likely almost stopped up it needs to be cleaned. If you don't have a the proper broach then just pay the service tech to clean it and adjust the burner.

my bet is on this also.


Anything I can do?

I think I'll just replace it. $400 for a newer more efficient model is probably the right way to go.

I say replace it because of it's age. You can put in for the tax rebate if you purchase the one the gov wants you to. I recently swapped out a 10 year old for two 50 gal tanks. Nothing like having two running in serial. Have yet to run out of hot water.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:24:39 AM EST
Update in OP
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:35:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Update in OP


Nice work.


F obama

LET'S GO YANKEES
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:19:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Update in OP


Nice work.


F obama

LET'S GO YANKEES


Thank you

Yes

and Yeahh!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:28:13 AM EST
why didn't you stick a couple sheets of drywall behind it while you had it out?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:30:59 AM EST
Very nice job and thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:58:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:01:14 AM EST
I did that a few years ago, went through 3 of them and still couldn't keep it lit. I then changed the part that acually goes into the tank itself-part of the gas valve and that fixed it.
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Won't stay lit... I'm going to take Thermocouples for $400, Alex.


That copper tube that goes into the flame thing? That's a thermocouple. If it is not positioned in the pilot flame correctly, or it is bad, which happens quite often, it does the correct thing and shuts off the gas. Thermocouples are all the same thread, a standard "one size fits all" thing.


Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:16:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheNamelessOne:
why didn't you stick a couple sheets of drywall behind it while you had it out?

Thats the first thing I noticed as well. Some 5/8 on the ceiling as well.
Insulation isn't fire proof.
Congrats on the install, now go take a shower.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:21:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheNamelessOne:
why didn't you stick a couple sheets of drywall behind it while you had it out?


If I could get away with just doing that corner for the tank I would, but I know it would turn into doing the whole room.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:22:14 AM EST
nicely done.

I hate home maintenance
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:31:39 AM EST
With the knowledge you have now you might have been able to repair the old setup (with proper venting?) but it is false economy to screw with a water heater of that age.
Nice move going to the town to get the proper setup instesd of listening to the failed plumber at Lowes (if he was any good as a plumber he wouldn't be working at Lowes !)
Sucks to not have systems you count on in your house not work!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:32:00 AM EST
Excellent work! Curious? No leak pan, drain or switch?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:11:09 AM EST
So, where's your earthquake strapping?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:13:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
So, where's your earthquake strapping?


Thats for the "shaky state" fellers.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:16:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
Excellent work! Curious? No leak pan, drain or switch?


First thing I noticed too
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:33:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
Excellent work! Curious? No leak pan, drain or switch?


The old one didn't have a pan, I should probably get one.

The drain pipe off the side I didn't hook up yet either, it's on the to do list.

Switch? Whats that?

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:39:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
So, where's your earthquake strapping?


We get snow here, no earthquakes.
Loss of power is the big issue.
I have a generator for that though. That's another thread.
I really need to set up a sub-panel instead of running 6 extension cords.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:40:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By KalihiJack:
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
Excellent work! Curious? No leak pan, drain or switch?


First thing I noticed too


I noticed that too
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 8:04:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
Excellent work! Curious? No leak pan, drain or switch?


The old one didn't have a pan, I should probably get one.

The drain pipe off the side I didn't hook up yet either, it's on the to do list.

Switch? Whats that?



If thats a mop sink next to the hot water heater you could plumb the pop off into that.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 9:00:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By WHITE_WOLFE:

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
Excellent work! Curious? No leak pan, drain or switch?


The old one didn't have a pan, I should probably get one.

The drain pipe off the side I didn't hook up yet either, it's on the to do list.

Switch? Whats that?



If thats a mop sink next to the hot water heater you could plumb the pop off into that.







That's an idear!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:43:21 PM EST
Make sure you put a 3/4" dia pipe 2-6" off the ground off the TPS (safety) valve on the side. If that ever goes off and you are near it without a pipe you'll be visiting a burn center really quick.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 7:52:59 PM EST
Plumbing Contractor here.

1. You need to have a gas shut off valve (1/2" AGA ball valve) on that line within 4' of the heater per code. Put it on the end of the black pipe drop before the union.

2. Run the drop off the T&P valve within 6" of the floor.

3. You should really sheetrock over that paper faced insulation on the side. Fire hazard.

Good job overall.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 8:00:24 PM EST
1 remove that valve on the side and replace wiht a bolt
2wire heating element straight to the power
3 ????
4 Profit

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 8:04:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
So, where's your earthquake strapping?


We get snow here, no earthquakes.
Loss of power is the big issue.
I have a generator for that though. That's another thread.
I really need to set up a sub-panel instead of running 6 extension cords.


earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/new_york/history.php excerpt

The magnitude 6 1/4 earthquake centered near Timiskaming, Quebec, Canada, on November 1, 1935, caused slight damaged at many points in New York. The damage was limited, in general, to plaster cracks, broken windows, and cracked chimneys. The shock was felt throughout New York, as far south as Washington, D.C., and as far west as Wisconsin. An earthquake centered near Lake Ossipee, New Hampshire on December 24, 1940, caused widespread, though slight, damage in the epicentral region, extending into Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Reports from Dannemora, New York, noted plaster and windows cracked and some dishes broken. The shock was felt over all of New York State.

On September 4, 1944, an earthquake centered about midway between Massena, New York, and Cornwall, Ontario, Canada, caused an estimated $2,000,000 damage in the two cities. The shock destroyed or damaged about 90 percent of the chimneys at Massena (intensity VIII), with similar effects at Cornwall. In addition, masonry, plumbing, and house foundations were damaged at Massena. Many structures were rendered unsage for occupancy until repaired. Press reports indicated a large number of wells in St. Lawrence County went dry, causing acute hardship. Brick masonry and concrete structures were damaged at Hogansburg; some ground cracking was also noted at nearby towns. This earthquake was felt over approximately 450,000 square kilometers in the United States, including all the New England States, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and portions of Michigan and Ohio. A few points in Illinois, Indiana, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wisconsin also reported feeling the tremor.

A magnitude 4.7 disturbance on January 1, 1966, caused slight damage to chimneys and walls at Attica and Varysburg. Plaster fell at the Attica State Prison and the main smokestack was damaged (intensity VI). The total felt area was about 46,500 square kilometers.

Abridged from Earthquake Information Bulletin, Volume 7, Number 4, July - August 1975, by Carl A. von Hake.

For a list of earthquakes that have occurred since this article was written, use the Earthquake Search.


4 lag screws and some plumbers strapping is not all that expensive. But with all that snow you can melt it to get drinking water rather than having a big handy tank of it. Unless it happens in the summer.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:46:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
So, where's your earthquake strapping?


We get snow here, no earthquakes.
Loss of power is the big issue.
I have a generator for that though. That's another thread.
I really need to set up a sub-panel instead of running 6 extension cords.


earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/new_york/history.php excerpt

The magnitude 6 1/4 earthquake centered near Timiskaming, Quebec, Canada, on November 1, 1935, caused slight damaged at many points in New York. The damage was limited, in general, to plaster cracks, broken windows, and cracked chimneys. The shock was felt throughout New York, as far south as Washington, D.C., and as far west as Wisconsin. An earthquake centered near Lake Ossipee, New Hampshire on December 24, 1940, caused widespread, though slight, damage in the epicentral region, extending into Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Reports from Dannemora, New York, noted plaster and windows cracked and some dishes broken. The shock was felt over all of New York State.

On September 4, 1944, an earthquake centered about midway between Massena, New York, and Cornwall, Ontario, Canada, caused an estimated $2,000,000 damage in the two cities. The shock destroyed or damaged about 90 percent of the chimneys at Massena (intensity VIII), with similar effects at Cornwall. In addition, masonry, plumbing, and house foundations were damaged at Massena. Many structures were rendered unsage for occupancy until repaired. Press reports indicated a large number of wells in St. Lawrence County went dry, causing acute hardship. Brick masonry and concrete structures were damaged at Hogansburg; some ground cracking was also noted at nearby towns. This earthquake was felt over approximately 450,000 square kilometers in the United States, including all the New England States, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and portions of Michigan and Ohio. A few points in Illinois, Indiana, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wisconsin also reported feeling the tremor.

A magnitude 4.7 disturbance on January 1, 1966, caused slight damage to chimneys and walls at Attica and Varysburg. Plaster fell at the Attica State Prison and the main smokestack was damaged (intensity VI). The total felt area was about 46,500 square kilometers.

Abridged from Earthquake Information Bulletin, Volume 7, Number 4, July - August 1975, by Carl A. von Hake.

For a list of earthquakes that have occurred since this article was written, use the Earthquake Search.


4 lag screws and some plumbers strapping is not all that expensive. But with all that snow you can melt it to get drinking water rather than having a big handy tank of it. Unless it happens in the summer.




Crap
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:51:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By flatfender:
Plumbing Contractor here.

1. You need to have a gas shut off valve (1/2" AGA ball valve) on that line within 4' of the heater per code. Put it on the end of the black pipe drop before the union.

There is a gate valve that i was shutting off just above the union. It was on the line that ran across the ceiling and down. I'll measure to see if it is 4'.


2. Run the drop off the T&P valve within 6" of the floor.

Yup. This weekend that will be done.

3. You should really sheetrock over that paper faced insulation on the side. Fire hazard.

I know. Maybe I'll try to get that in too this weekend. I may have some laying around.

Good job overall.


Thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it guys.
As far as the earthquake stuff is concerned, how much do those strap things cost you were talking about?
I don't have the tank to close to the wall, so if moving it is what has to be done, we'll just cross our fingers for now.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 4:49:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 4:50:05 AM EST by flatfender]

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By flatfender:
Plumbing Contractor here.

1. You need to have a gas shut off valve (1/2" AGA ball valve) on that line within 4' of the heater per code. Put it on the end of the black pipe drop before the union.

There is a gate valve that i was shutting off just above the union. It was on the line that ran across the ceiling and down. I'll measure to see if it is 4'.


Then the existing one will be fine. I just didn't see it in the pic.

2. Run the drop off the T&P valve within 6" of the floor.

Yup. This weekend that will be done.

3. You should really sheetrock over that paper faced insulation on the side. Fire hazard.

I know. Maybe I'll try to get that in too this weekend. I may have some laying around.

Good job overall.


Thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it guys.
As far as the earthquake stuff is concerned, how much do those strap things cost you were talking about?
I don't have the tank to close to the wall, so if moving it is what has to be done, we'll just cross our fingers for now.


Link Posted: 11/5/2009 7:38:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By flatfender:

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By flatfender:
Plumbing Contractor here.

1. You need to have a gas shut off valve (1/2" AGA ball valve) on that line within 4' of the heater per code. Put it on the end of the black pipe drop before the union.

There is a gate valve that i was shutting off just above the union. It was on the line that ran across the ceiling and down. I'll measure to see if it is 4'.


Then the existing one will be fine. I just didn't see it in the pic.

2. Run the drop off the T&P valve within 6" of the floor.

Yup. This weekend that will be done.

3. You should really sheetrock over that paper faced insulation on the side. Fire hazard.

I know. Maybe I'll try to get that in too this weekend. I may have some laying around.

Good job overall.


Thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it guys.
As far as the earthquake stuff is concerned, how much do those strap things cost you were talking about?
I don't have the tank to close to the wall, so if moving it is what has to be done, we'll just cross our fingers for now.




In the pic, where the power cord and gas line converge is a cock valve.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 7:56:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By flatfender:

Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Originally Posted By flatfender:
Plumbing Contractor here.

1. You need to have a gas shut off valve (1/2" AGA ball valve) on that line within 4' of the heater per code. Put it on the end of the black pipe drop before the union.

There is a gate valve that i was shutting off just above the union. It was on the line that ran across the ceiling and down. I'll measure to see if it is 4'.


Then the existing one will be fine. I just didn't see it in the pic.

2. Run the drop off the T&P valve within 6" of the floor.

Yup. This weekend that will be done.

3. You should really sheetrock over that paper faced insulation on the side. Fire hazard.

I know. Maybe I'll try to get that in too this weekend. I may have some laying around.

Good job overall.


Thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it guys.
As far as the earthquake stuff is concerned, how much do those strap things cost you were talking about?
I don't have the tank to close to the wall, so if moving it is what has to be done, we'll just cross our fingers for now.




In the pic, where the power cord and gas line converge is a cock valve.
That'll work!

Top Top