Homemade setup to run Hydrogen in your vehicle...saw one today

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Homemade setup to run Hydrogen in your vehicle...saw one today (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:14:11 PM EDT

I was having a pair of speakers installed in my Jeep today and the owner's dad and I shot the shit while they finished up.

We get to talking about oil and commodities prices, dropping/rising etc. and he says "I've got to show you something". I had my CCW so no pennis peek-a-boo concerns as we walked to the back of the building.

All the while he's trying to give me a background on his invention I'm thinking "BS, scam, the guy's lost his mind".

The claims: one system is running on an old Isuzu Trooper. Was getting 15-16mpg around the city. He installed his system and after the first oil change, he noted significant gas savings...to the tune of 28mpg. System requires no serious alterations to the vehicle. He flatly stated that after installation you will have to have your oil changed every 3k miles until the carbon and crud is removed from the engine. He saved the oil and filter from his first oil change to show me the how much junk was removed.

Here's what I saw under the popped hood: a glass jar filled with distilled water, the top of which had two wire leads (+,- I assume) and a t-splitter with two rubber hoses that ran from bottle to air intake/fuel intake (I believe).

He starts the car and bubbling occurs in the bottle (electrolysis I presume). The hydrogen/fuel mixes in the combustion chamber.

Now this Trooper is ancient (175k on the odo) and it's purring like brand new. He tells me to walk around back and smell the exhaust

, I don't stick my face right up to the pipe, but I notice I don't smell any fumes...in fact there's no smell at all and no smoke.

One of the workers at the shop said that the guy has the patent on the whole thing. I'm curious as to what ARFCOM thinks. So, is it feasable?

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:16:05 PM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:16:44 PM EDT

[#2]

dude it works it is feasible if you saw it.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:20:03 PM EDT

[#3]

The big oil companies will have him assasinated to shut him up.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:20:37 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Yeah, what he said.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:22:19 PM EDT

[#5]

All the claims are word of mouth.

Yeah, they will say "less emissions" but that is idle only.

You can't get something for nothing. You can't have freedom for free.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:22:27 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I was having a pair of speakers installed in my Jeep today and the owner's dad and I shot the shit while they finished up.

We get to talking about oil and commodities prices, dropping/rising etc. and he says "I've got to show you something". I had my CCW so no pennis peek-a-boo concerns as we walked to the back of the building.

All the while he's trying to give me a background on his invention I'm thinking "BS, scam, the guy's lost his mind".

The claims: one system is running on an old Isuzu Trooper. Was getting 15-16mpg around the city. He installed his system and after the first oil change, he noted significant gas savings...to the tune of 28mpg. System requires no serious alterations to the vehicle. He flatly stated that after installation you will have to have your oil changed every 3k miles until the carbon and crud is removed from the engine. He saved the oil and filter from his first oil change to show me the how much junk was removed.

Here's what I saw under the popped hood: a glass jar filled with distilled water, the top of which had two wire leads (+,- I assume) and a t-splitter with two rubber hoses that ran from bottle to air intake/fuel intake (I believe).

He starts the car and bubbling occurs in the bottle (electrolysis I presume). The hydrogen/fuel mixes in the combustion chamber.

Now this Trooper is ancient (175k on the odo) and it's purring like brand new. He tells me to walk around back and smell the exhaust

, I don't stick my face right up to the pipe, but I notice I don't smell any fumes...in fact there's no smell at all and no smoke.

One of the workers at the shop said that the guy has the patent on the whole thing. I'm curious as to what ARFCOM thinks. So, is it feasable?

This not new, there are very many variations. I saw one about a month ago, the guy claimed he was getting 6 mpg more in one trip to work. Still was working on dialing it in.

Google "hydrogen genorator"

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:23:56 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Yeah, what he said.

Well, why isn't it feasable other than the fact it sounds too good to be true?

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:24:15 PM EDT

[#8]

A guy came to my Jr High science class and demonstrated how to produce Hydrogen.

I blew up a slot car transformer and was lucky I didn't fry myself.

I'll pass.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:25:37 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was having a pair of speakers installed in my Jeep today and the owner's dad and I shot the shit while they finished up.

We get to talking about oil and commodities prices, dropping/rising etc. and he says "I've got to show you something". I had my CCW so no pennis peek-a-boo concerns as we walked to the back of the building.

All the while he's trying to give me a background on his invention I'm thinking "BS, scam, the guy's lost his mind".

The claims: one system is running on an old Isuzu Trooper. Was getting 15-16mpg around the city. He installed his system and after the first oil change, he noted significant gas savings...to the tune of 28mpg. System requires no serious alterations to the vehicle. He flatly stated that after installation you will have to have your oil changed every 3k miles until the carbon and crud is removed from the engine. He saved the oil and filter from his first oil change to show me the how much junk was removed.

Here's what I saw under the popped hood: a glass jar filled with distilled water, the top of which had two wire leads (+,- I assume) and a t-splitter with two rubber hoses that ran from bottle to air intake/fuel intake (I believe).

He starts the car and bubbling occurs in the bottle (electrolysis I presume). The hydrogen/fuel mixes in the combustion chamber.

Now this Trooper is ancient (175k on the odo) and it's purring like brand new. He tells me to walk around back and smell the exhaust

, I don't stick my face right up to the pipe, but I notice I don't smell any fumes...in fact there's no smell at all and no smoke.

One of the workers at the shop said that the guy has the patent on the whole thing. I'm curious as to what ARFCOM thinks. So, is it feasable?

This not new, there are very many variations. I saw one about a month ago, the guy claimed he was getting 6 mpg more in one trip to work. Still was working on dialing it in.

Google "hydrogen genorator"

Same with this guy. He said different figures for different vehicle, but the minimum was 6mpg improvement.

I'll give the google a look here in a minute. Your reply is precisely the reason I psoted it here...to see if anyone else had seen or heard of this before.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:26:57 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
All the claims are word of mouth.

Yeah, they will say "less emissions" but that is idle only.

You can't get something for nothing. You can't have freedom for free.

Hence my reluctance. I didn't note any particular downsides as he presented it.

I think he was asking $200 to install.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:27:41 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
A guy came to my Jr High science class and demonstrated how to produce Hydrogen.

I blew up a slot car transformer and was lucky I didn't fry myself.

I'll pass.

Yeah the whole detonation thing is a bit scary

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:38:44 PM EDT

[#12]

height=8

Quoted:
The big oil companies will have him assasinated to shut him up.

I'm with him.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:40:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Well, why isn't it feasable other than the fact it sounds too good to be true?

thermodynamics

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:42:38 PM EDT

[#14]

My boss made one and put it on his diesel truck It work's , you can also make very loud noise makers if you fill a plastic milk jug with hydrogen and light it.

It is safe in your car because the hydrogen is being used as it is being generated.

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:43:38 PM EDT

[#15]

If your vehicle gets 20 MPG on gasoline, it would take a 200 kW generator to make enough electricity to fuel it on hydrogen. That size generator would require a 300 Hp engine to drive.

Ok, so the TINY bit of hydrogen generated supposedly makes the gasoline "burn better" or "more efficiently". How?

When gas burns, the first step is the liberation of the hydrogen from carbon bonds. After the hydrogen burns, the carbon now burns. How does adding any additional hydrogen, nevermind a TINY BIT, make the burn "better"?

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:45:37 PM EDT

[#16]

my dad is playing with something like this. I told him it wont work... He says it will and he wont listen to me.

Who knows

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:53:36 PM EDT

[#17]

The amount of Hydrogen and Oxygen coming from that bottle is what maybe 1 cubic foot per minute on a LARGE system..

A standard car lets say 2.3L engine is sucking in 50-80 cubic feet of air / per second on accel.

Sorry just not going to help..

On a diesel it is even worse... A standard diesel motor takes in around 1000% more air than is needed to support combustion.. Try keeping up with that!

Posted: 7/19/2008 2:57:40 PM EDT

[#18]

How many times must we repudiate this nonsense.

It is impossible.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:02:07 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
If your vehicle gets 20 MPG on gasoline, it would take a 200 kW generator to make enough electricity to fuel it on hydrogen. That size generator would require a 300 Hp engine to drive.

Ok, so the TINY bit of hydrogen generated supposedly makes the gasoline "burn better" or "more efficiently". How?

When gas burns, the first step is the liberation of the hydrogen from carbon bonds. After the hydrogen burns, the carbon now burns. How does adding any additional hydrogen, nevermind a TINY BIT, make the burn "better"?

You and all your sciencey stuff.

Besides the obvious scientific reasons, does anyone think that Detroit wouldn't install a distilled water reservior as OE on every vehicle if they could gain 6 MPG? Must be a conspiracy to lose money and market share to the Japanese.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:02:37 PM EDT

[#20]

Ok, a 2.3 liter engine pulls 2300 liters per minute at WOT and 2000 RPM. It takes 50 kW-H to make 1 kg of hydrogen which is about 11000 liters at STP. There will also be 5500 liters of oxygen produced.

But to make enough hydrogen and oxygen to fuel that 2.3 liter engine operating at 2000 RPM, it would take a 410 kW generator. That represents 561 Hp.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:03:31 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
How many times must we repudiate this nonsense.

It is impossible.

We still have people thinking birdshot....nevermind.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:16:34 PM EDT

[#22]

If it burns, it will produce heat, and if it produces heat it, it will produce power.

So how much power is neccessary?

Some hybrids are shutting off cylinders at cruise, and are producing better gas mileage.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:19:29 PM EDT

[#23]

Article about a guy in the local paper installed it on his 1998 Chevy 1500 and got about a 40% increase in mpg.

I have the conversion kit on .pdf file if anyone wants it.

I have no idea if it would work.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:19:38 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many times must we repudiate this nonsense.

It is impossible.

We still have people thinking birdshot....nevermind.

No joke. What was I thinking.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:20:20 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Article about a guy in the local paper installed it on his 1998 Chevy 1500 and got about a 40% increase in mpg.

I have the conversion kit on .pdf file if anyone wants it.

I have no idea if it would work.

I do.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:22:03 PM EDT

[#26]

hmmm why is everyone assuming its the Hydrogen?.... the Increased oxygen content would rather obviously burn better.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:22:19 PM EDT

[#27]

groan...

this shit again?

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:23:18 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
hmmm why is everyone assuming its the Hydrogen?.... the Increased oxygen content would rather obviously burn better.

define "better"

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:26:57 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How many times must we repudiate this nonsense.

It is impossible.

We still have people thinking birdshot....nevermind.

No joke. What was I thinking.

Next thing, you're going to tell me I can't use an electric motor driven generator to supply itself and get power for free!

Bosh!

It's all in the neutrons, baby! That and Hope Change Future! ™ will get us mannah from heaven, free dope and hollywood chicks!

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:46:17 PM EDT

[#30]

Part of me really wants to start building these things.

If science-illiterate people are going to waste money on things, I might as well make money on it, right? How much would Arfcommers pay for a ready made system--I mean, it doubles your gas mileage, right? How about $800?

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:49:08 PM EDT

[#31]

He doesn't have a patent on the installation.

WTF, the guy ain't installing speakers because he has a revolutionary invention.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:50:44 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
If it burns, it will produce heat, and if it produces heat it, it will produce power.

So how much power is neccessary?

Some hybrids are shutting off cylinders at cruise, and are producing better gas mileage.

Which hybrids have selective displacement?

Idiots flock to hybrids just like this hydrogen claptrap...because they do not understand why/how it works and they have HOPE that it will work.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:51:22 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Article about a guy in the local paper installed it on his 1998 Chevy 1500 and got about a 40% increase in mpg.

I have the conversion kit on .pdf file if anyone wants it.

I have no idea if it would work.

I do.

Yeah, but you are an operative of Big Oil.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:56:27 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Part of me really wants to start building these things.

If science-illiterate people are going to waste money on things, I might as well make money on it, right? How much would Arfcommers pay for a ready made system--I mean, it doubles your gas mileage, right? How about $800?

I want to do that too. Only my integrity gets in the way. If I make it, I want it to work.

The real scam artists also implement an oxygen sensor trimming circuit which fools the ECU into a slight lean condition. These are NOT EPA approved and can net any commercial installer a $10,000 fine per install. So if you sell them, you HAVE to state "For off-road use only".

Of course EPA has to prove the devices screw with the emissions.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:57:33 PM EDT

[#35]

I love these threads. Makes my post count jump. Last good thread was "airplane on a conveyor".

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:58:49 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If it burns, it will produce heat, and if it produces heat it, it will produce power.

So how much power is neccessary?

Some hybrids are shutting off cylinders at cruise, and are producing better gas mileage.

Which hybrids have selective displacement?

Idiots flock to hybrids just like this hydrogen claptrap...because they do not understand why/how it works and they have HOPE that it will work.

Now wait just a second.

We've been over the hybrid trail a couple of times, too.

A hybrid Camry gets significantly better fuel mileage than a plain Camry. The cost of both cars is very close. In our case, a car was going to be bought, roughly in the $22k to $30k range. The hybrid Camry reduced our household fuel consumption by 25% right off; the car averaged about 37.5 to 38.5 mpg the first 19 months, and it's getting about 41 mpg right now in mixed driving during the week.

Besides, we didn't flock, it was an impulse buy.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:54:08 PM EDT

[#37]

Thinking about the energy needed just to make water boil, let alone break it apart into its eleements I can't see any net energy gain.

If it were that easy to break it apart, we'd see all kinds of interesting dramatic effects in nature involving water thsat we don't see now.

Then think about this: How long does that jug of water last? To produce any significant power, wouldn't it need to be consumed a lot quicker?

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:24:46 PM EDT

[#38]

A) The science: An electrolysis process converts 2*H20 into 2*H2 + O2, The hydrogen gas and oxygen are going to be burned in the engine to produce more power and some of this power will go into the alternator where it is converted in to electricity to power the electrolysis.

B) The thermodynamics: It takes more power to make the hydrogen and oxygen than you get back by burning same. Theoretically you might be able to tune the electrolysis power to about 80%-ish efficiency (electrical power in into power contained in gasses), and if burned in a rocket motor might yield 95%-ish of the power in the gasses/liquids (directed thrust rocket motor). However when converted in to rotary motion by a crankshaft with a short connecting rod, you can't get more than 40%-ish from the hydrogen and oxygen combustion (thrust at piston to torque at crankshaft RMS adiabatic compression/expansion).

Thus, it donna worka.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:36:55 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
If your vehicle gets 20 MPG on gasoline, it would take a 200 kW generator to make enough electricity to fuel it on hydrogen. That size generator would require a 300 Hp engine to drive.

Ok, so the TINY bit of hydrogen generated supposedly makes the gasoline "burn better" or "more efficiently". How?

When gas burns, the first step is the liberation of the hydrogen from carbon bonds. After the hydrogen burns, the carbon now burns. How does adding any additional hydrogen, nevermind a TINY BIT, make the burn "better"?

Please do not taunt monkeys with scientific fact

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:40:24 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If it burns, it will produce heat, and if it produces heat it, it will produce power.

So how much power is neccessary?

Some hybrids are shutting off cylinders at cruise, and are producing better gas mileage.

Which hybrids have selective displacement?

Idiots flock to hybrids just like this hydrogen claptrap...because they do not understand why/how it works and they have HOPE that it will work.

Not sure but Cadillac pioneered the technology in the 80's, the Cadilac 8-6-4 engine.
It's more commonly known as Cadillac's worst mistake evar, good idea in theory, horrible execution it didn't work for shit. They decided that selective displacement was better used as a limp home method, which showed up in the Northstar engines.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:41:17 PM EDT

[#41]

Wouldn't work.

Hydrogen engines don't work like that. They require a few cell.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:45:23 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Wouldn't work.

Hydrogen engines don't work like that. They require a few cell.

How many? "Few" is inspecific.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:46:19 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I was having a pair of speakers installed in my Jeep today and the owner's dad and I shot the shit while they finished up.

We get to talking about oil and commodities prices, dropping/rising etc. and he says "I've got to show you something". I had my CCW so no pennis peek-a-boo concerns as we walked to the back of the building.

All the while he's trying to give me a background on his invention I'm thinking "BS, scam, the guy's lost his mind".

The claims: one system is running on an old Isuzu Trooper. Was getting 15-16mpg around the city. He installed his system and after the first oil change, he noted significant gas savings...to the tune of 28mpg. System requires no serious alterations to the vehicle. He flatly stated that after installation you will have to have your oil changed every 3k miles until the carbon and crud is removed from the engine. He saved the oil and filter from his first oil change to show me the how much junk was removed.

Here's what I saw under the popped hood: a glass jar filled with distilled water, the top of which had two wire leads (+,- I assume) and a t-splitter with two rubber hoses that ran from bottle to air intake/fuel intake (I believe).

He starts the car and bubbling occurs in the bottle (electrolysis I presume). The hydrogen/fuel mixes in the combustion chamber.

Now this Trooper is ancient (175k on the odo) and it's purring like brand new. He tells me to walk around back and smell the exhaust

, I don't stick my face right up to the pipe, but I notice I don't smell any fumes...in fact there's no smell at all and no smoke.

One of the workers at the shop said that the guy has the patent on the whole thing. I'm curious as to what ARFCOM thinks. So, is it feasable?

It is physically impossible....

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:46:28 PM EDT

[#44]

I have freinds that are building the newest designs now. Trying to get time with him in his shop. I'm gonns try it.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:50:03 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I have freinds that are building the newest designs now. Trying to get time with him in his shop. I'm gonns try it.

Is there any kookery yoU DON'T believe in...

Brown's Gas...

Inflation is a conspiracy by bankers to steal from everyone else...

Etc...

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:53:11 PM EDT

[#46]

I think that is the same guy my BIL is working with. He told me about the EXACT same system that him and a fella that lived up close to TN were working on. My BIL is about to try it on his wife's (my sister's) minivan.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:56:27 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
I have freinds that are building the newest designs now. Trying to get time with him in his shop. I'm gonns try it.

Don't pay your hard earned money out. Convince your friends to let you be an unbiased test mule.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:57:37 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wouldn't work.

Hydrogen engines don't work like that. They require a few cell.

How many? "Few" is inspecific.

Forgive me, the heat has made me tired.

Fuel

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:03:13 PM EDT

[#49]

Does it work? Sure. Hydrogen is a combustible gas.

Is it cost-effective? I doubt it.

TANSTAAFL. The energy to split the water has to come from somewhere. And you can't get more energy from a reaction than you put into it, so I can't see how burning petroleum fuel to make electricity to create hydrogen would net you anything.

eta: Not to mention the amount of water needed to generate any appreciable amount of hydrogen is going to weigh quite a bit, I imagine.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:04:38 PM EDT

[#50]

"Funny how we have all of these people saying 'it won't work' or 'it can't work' or 'it is impossible'..."

Until one of you says " It didn't work and here is my proof" let us try. Maybe we will figure out the the Earth really isn't flat and that maggots come from flies and not from raw meat.

Check out HHO Project . com

I am rebuilding a Geo Metro (It will have a bumper sticker that says "My other vehicle is a Dino Excursion" which is true) and I will put an HHO system on it. An electrician at work it getting the bugs out of his and is currently estimating 60 MPG up from 45 MPG stock.

Wes

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Homemade setup to run Hydrogen in your vehicle...saw one today (Page 1 of 4)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us