Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 3/7/2011 4:06:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2011 4:07:08 PM EST by BuckHammer]
The oil thread got me thinking about making my own Biodiesel for my F-250. Does anybody here have any experience running B100 in diesel vehicles? Does anybody here make their own Biodiesel? I'm looking into making an Appleseed processor to make biodiesel from waste vegetable oil, and I was wondering what ARFcom had to say about that concept.

I was thinking, what better way to cut down on my fuel costs and reduce my and our collective dependence on foreign oil than to manufacture my own fuel?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:12:25 PM EST
just dont forget to pay your taxes on the fuel
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:13:31 PM EST
tag I'm looking into the same thing.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:13:34 PM EST
I've been thinking about doing the same.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:15:20 PM EST
I've got a co-worker that does it. He doesn't turn it into biodesel, he runs straight vegi oil with a heater in it.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:17:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2011 4:18:07 PM EST by Wirebrush]
I know a Guy that works at a Ford dealership who runs used transmission fluid for fuel in his Powerstroke.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:17:58 PM EST
The kits are spendy up from but pay for themselves over time. Bio is not that hard to make just take your time and follow the steps. One thing to think of is if you deal with colder temps in the winter then you can run into gelling issues. I say If you have the money, the space and access to a steady stream of used oil then go for it.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:18:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2011 4:18:52 PM EST by Russm]
Whatever you do, be sure to filter it first. You dont want a chunk of grease clogging your fuel line.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:19:11 PM EST
I think about it every time I cut behind the nearby strip mall to avoid the parking lot and see all those used cooking oil tanks behind every restaurant.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:19:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By tothemax:
The kits are spendy up from but pay for themselves over time. Bio is not that hard to make just take your time and follow the steps. One thing to think of is if you deal with colder temps in the winter then you can run into gelling issues. I say If you have the money, the space and access to a steady stream of used oil then go for it.

Biodiesel isn't too bad in colder weather if you do it right , WVO is where the problems start. The best way to run WVO in a cold environment is to have two tanks, a diesel tank & a WVO tank and let the WVO warm up for 5-10m before you switch to it.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:21:24 PM EST
Thread on it today (WITH PICS ) in Arfcom's Survival Discussion in the Outdoors Forums!

You guys need to get out (of GD) more often.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=644517
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:26:23 PM EST
Don't run SVO in any modern diesel. If there are any electronics, forget it. Too easy to fuck up an injection pump. That is 200 gallons of diesel at $5 a gallon.

Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:35:13 PM EST
I think I remember hearing something about having to change out certain lines/hoses that can survive biodiesel. Anyone know if I'm remembering correctly or imagining shit up?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:36:36 PM EST
Do your homework on B100. Most later model ford (post 7.3) won't run on it. So I've be told. You be better off switching to CNG. But haven't looked yet to see what if any cost savings there would be. Long term maybe.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:38:34 PM EST
SVO mixed with isoproponol
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:39:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:39:27 PM EST
I have been making it for 3 years now.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:40:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Seansworth:
I think I remember hearing something about having to change out certain lines/hoses that can survive biodiesel. Anyone know if I'm remembering correctly or imagining shit up?
I believe 95-96 years and old are what you have to worry about. It was a type of rubber that would break down faster with bio.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:40:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By futuremodal:
SVO mixed with isoproponol

Do you know how to replace and time the injection pump? Because you will learn with that witch's brew.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:41:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Seansworth:
I think I remember hearing something about having to change out certain lines/hoses that can survive biodiesel. Anyone know if I'm remembering correctly or imagining shit up?

Injection pump seals would be a more pressing concern.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:46:43 PM EST
The cost of your bioD pre gallon will depend on what price you can buy your KOH and Methanol for. If you have to room for 55 gallon barrels your should save some money.
Keep in mind once you commit to picking up waste oil you HAVE TO pick it up or you will lose it. Do the math on the amount of oil you need and don't get greedy, having to much oil can be more trouble then to little.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:34:46 PM EST
I'm just waiting for the day that waste vegetable oil costs more than diesel fuel.

You know it's just a matter of time.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:43:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run SVO in any modern diesel. If there are any electronics, forget it. Too easy to fuck up an injection pump. That is 200 gallons of diesel at $5 a gallon.

Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


What motor is a good candidate for DIY diesel?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:46:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:
just dont forget to pay your taxes on the fuel


I hope you're kidding...

It's pretty bad when you can't even make your own products/fuels for personal use without getting taxed.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:46:33 PM EST
Work at an airport and go around and "offer" to drain the sumps on all the jets and turboprops.

vmax84
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:47:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run SVO in any modern diesel. If there are any electronics, forget it. Too easy to fuck up an injection pump. That is 200 gallons of diesel at $5 a gallon.

Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


What motor is a good candidate for DIY diesel?


12v Cummins IMHO
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:48:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run SVO in any modern diesel. If there are any electronics, forget it. Too easy to fuck up an injection pump. That is 200 gallons of diesel at $5 a gallon.

Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


What motor is a good candidate for DIY diesel?

I've always been curious about the Mercedes diesels, see a bunch of them for sale with tons of miles for cheap.









Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:50:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By leatherman84:
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:
just dont forget to pay your taxes on the fuel


I hope you're kidding...

It's pretty bad when you can't even make your own products/fuels for personal use without getting taxed.
There was some retired guy a year or two back in the news. He home-brewed his own bio-diesel and ran around town for a while before the tax collectors decided he was evading road taxes.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 5:54:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheGunCollector:
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run SVO in any modern diesel. If there are any electronics, forget it. Too easy to fuck up an injection pump. That is 200 gallons of diesel at $5 a gallon.

Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


What motor is a good candidate for DIY diesel?


12v Cummins IMHO

Bosch injection pump? If it is all mechanical, probably.

The problem with 100% bio is many of the later Bosch pumps have sensitive electronics which can be damaged by the bio. Pumps have a lot generated heat, this can cause corrosion.

All mechanical. Still, I would recommend flushing the system with petro diesel before shutting down.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 6:36:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By futuremodal:
SVO mixed with isoproponol

Do you know how to replace and time the injection pump? Because you will learn with that witch's brew.

Isoproponol is already the alcohol of choice for transesterifying waste oils into biodiesel. The trick in using SVO without gumming up the works is to find an additive that will break down the glycerol in suto while not breaking down any rubber or plastic parts. Isopropanol is less damaging to rubber or plastic surfaces than most other solvents.

I've also blended acetone with WVO and it cleans it up nicely, separating the "bits" down to the bottom of the test jars.

DISCLAIMER: I have not used any of my witches brews in any of my engines, and I cannot be held responsible for anyone who might take up these suggestions. Try them at your own risk ........ then get back to us if you find a blend that works!
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 6:45:50 PM EST
Biodiesel destroys everything it touches. I have yet to see a good blend that doesn't ruin parts, homebrew or commercial.

The main things I see at the shop are free methanol eating aluminum, sulfuric acid eating injector parts and tank liners, water in the fuel, and glycerol clogging everything.

Good luck, do what you can to watch out for these problems, and post updates.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 6:56:27 PM EST
I work at a start up facility producing 50k gallons of B100 a week (tooling up for 100k per week).

Facinating experience considering it is a million miles apart from my 25 years of skilled trades experience.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 7:22:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
Biodiesel destroys everything it touches. I have yet to see a good blend that doesn't ruin parts, homebrew or commercial.

The main things I see at the shop are free methanol eating aluminum, sulfuric acid eating injector parts and tank liners, water in the fuel, and glycerol clogging everything.

Good luck, do what you can to watch out for these problems, and post updates.
Water wash and drying the bio will help rid a lot of the free methanol.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 7:30:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dionysus:

Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:
Biodiesel destroys everything it touches. I have yet to see a good blend that doesn't ruin parts, homebrew or commercial.

The main things I see at the shop are free methanol eating aluminum, sulfuric acid eating injector parts and tank liners, water in the fuel, and glycerol clogging everything.

Good luck, do what you can to watch out for these problems, and post updates.
Water wash and drying the bio will help rid a lot of the free methanol.


Meh, I don't care how they screw it up, so long as I keep getting paid to fix it. I made a dumptruck load of money on the last fuel crunch, and I anticipate more of the same this time.

A local DOT bought 10,000 gallons from a big supplier, and I got the pleasure of putting tanks, pumps, filter housings, and injectors in their whole fleet. sweeeeet.

Me personally? Used trans fluid and engine oil cut with gas and diesel. works like a charm.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 7:36:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:

Me personally? Used trans fluid and engine oil cut with gas and diesel. works like a charm.

Something else I wouldn't run through an HPCR system.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 7:43:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By futuremodal:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By futuremodal:
SVO mixed with isoproponol

Do you know how to replace and time the injection pump? Because you will learn with that witch's brew.

Isoproponol is already the alcohol of choice for transesterifying waste oils into biodiesel. The trick in using SVO without gumming up the works is to find an additive that will break down the glycerol in suto while not breaking down any rubber or plastic parts. Isopropanol is less damaging to rubber or plastic surfaces than most other solvents.

I've also blended acetone with WVO and it cleans it up nicely, separating the "bits" down to the bottom of the test jars.

DISCLAIMER: I have not used any of my witches brews in any of my engines, and I cannot be held responsible for anyone who might take up these suggestions. Try them at your own risk ........ then get back to us if you find a blend that works!

Still NUTS. You won't "break down" the glycerol into anything. Transesterification is replacement of the glycerol, a triol or triple alcohol with three equivalents of a primary alcohol. In doing so, the fatty acids of the triglyceride are transformed into 3 fatty acid esters. And in doing so, the viscosity is dramatically reduced. The glycerol must be removed because its combustion forms acrolein, a POWERFUL vesicant and highly damaging compound.

Burning WVO or SVO releases acrolein which causes BIG PROBLEMS.

If you don't know the chemistry, don't mess with alternative fuels.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 7:49:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:

Me personally? Used trans fluid and engine oil cut with gas and diesel. works like a charm.

Something else I wouldn't run through an HPCR system.

Yeah, if I could get the viscosity right, it would work, but it's easier to just run it in HEUIs and pumpers.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 8:01:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By N8088HD:
Do your homework on B100. Most later model ford (post 7.3) won't run on it. So I've be told. You be better off switching to CNG. But haven't looked yet to see what if any cost savings there would be. Long term maybe.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


I've got a 7.3L
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 8:02:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


Why not?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 8:15:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


Why not?

Bulk modulus is too little...it is less springy than petroleum diesel. In lower pressure systems, this isn't an issue. Distributor systems have plenty of spring in the lines. But in unit injectors, it is damaging to most components as the pressure spike is sharper.

In electronic distributor systems, it can cause accelerated corrosion in the control collar position sensor, fuel temperature sensor or timing circuit. There, fuel pressure inside the case is regulated to set the timing dynamically. These pumps have a good bit of electrical wiring going into the pump, the bulkhead connector may NOT tolerate it either. It likes to destroy wire insulation, leading to a trashed IP. Meaning YOU PAY CORE CHARGE, $400 in most cases or more.

I've seen plenty of pumps running commercial bio which were coated with varnish. If you run 100%, always flush the system with petro diesel before stopping.


Link Posted: 3/7/2011 8:21:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


Why not?

Bulk modulus is too little...it is less springy than petroleum diesel. In lower pressure systems, this isn't an issue. Distributor systems have plenty of spring in the lines. But in unit injectors, it is damaging to most components as the pressure spike is sharper.

In electronic distributor systems, it can cause accelerated corrosion in the control collar position sensor, fuel temperature sensor or timing circuit. There, fuel pressure inside the case is regulated to set the timing dynamically. These pumps have a good bit of electrical wiring going into the pump, the bulkhead connector may NOT tolerate it either. It likes to destroy wire insulation, leading to a trashed IP. Meaning YOU PAY CORE CHARGE, $400 in most cases or more.

I've seen plenty of pumps running commercial bio which were coated with varnish. If you run 100%, always flush the system with petro diesel before stopping.




Would these issues exist for a 1996 7.3L Powerstroke? I've got two tanks, too. Theoretically, I could fill one of them with B100 and the other with straight mineral diesel.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 8:25:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


Why not?

Bulk modulus is too little...it is less springy than petroleum diesel. In lower pressure systems, this isn't an issue. Distributor systems have plenty of spring in the lines. But in unit injectors, it is damaging to most components as the pressure spike is sharper.

In electronic distributor systems, it can cause accelerated corrosion in the control collar position sensor, fuel temperature sensor or timing circuit. There, fuel pressure inside the case is regulated to set the timing dynamically. These pumps have a good bit of electrical wiring going into the pump, the bulkhead connector may NOT tolerate it either. It likes to destroy wire insulation, leading to a trashed IP. Meaning YOU PAY CORE CHARGE, $400 in most cases or more.

I've seen plenty of pumps running commercial bio which were coated with varnish. If you run 100%, always flush the system with petro diesel before stopping.




Would these issues exist for a 1996 7.3L Powerstroke? I've got two tanks, too. Theoretically, I could fill one of them with B100 and the other with straight mineral diesel.

Your truck will eat through the bottom of the fuel filter can, it will chew up lift pumps like pez candy, and will ruin the occasional injector. Glow plug life will only be around 50,000 miles or less, as opposed to 100,000 normally.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 10:31:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


Why not?

Bulk modulus is too little...it is less springy than petroleum diesel. In lower pressure systems, this isn't an issue. Distributor systems have plenty of spring in the lines. But in unit injectors, it is damaging to most components as the pressure spike is sharper.

In electronic distributor systems, it can cause accelerated corrosion in the control collar position sensor, fuel temperature sensor or timing circuit. There, fuel pressure inside the case is regulated to set the timing dynamically. These pumps have a good bit of electrical wiring going into the pump, the bulkhead connector may NOT tolerate it either. It likes to destroy wire insulation, leading to a trashed IP. Meaning YOU PAY CORE CHARGE, $400 in most cases or more.

I've seen plenty of pumps running commercial bio which were coated with varnish. If you run 100%, always flush the system with petro diesel before stopping.




Would these issues exist for a 1996 7.3L Powerstroke? I've got two tanks, too. Theoretically, I could fill one of them with B100 and the other with straight mineral diesel.

Your truck will eat through the bottom of the fuel filter can, it will chew up lift pumps like pez candy, and will ruin the occasional injector. Glow plug life will only be around 50,000 miles or less, as opposed to 100,000 normally.


Is there a way to Bioproof these components?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 11:06:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2011 11:07:37 PM EST by Dionysus]

Originally Posted By AnticitizenOne:

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Don't run home brewed bio straight in these engines. 20% maximum.


Why not?

Bulk modulus is too little...it is less springy than petroleum diesel. In lower pressure systems, this isn't an issue. Distributor systems have plenty of spring in the lines. But in unit injectors, it is damaging to most components as the pressure spike is sharper.

In electronic distributor systems, it can cause accelerated corrosion in the control collar position sensor, fuel temperature sensor or timing circuit. There, fuel pressure inside the case is regulated to set the timing dynamically. These pumps have a good bit of electrical wiring going into the pump, the bulkhead connector may NOT tolerate it either. It likes to destroy wire insulation, leading to a trashed IP. Meaning YOU PAY CORE CHARGE, $400 in most cases or more.

I've seen plenty of pumps running commercial bio which were coated with varnish. If you run 100%, always flush the system with petro diesel before stopping.




Would these issues exist for a 1996 7.3L Powerstroke? I've got two tanks, too. Theoretically, I could fill one of them with B100 and the other with straight mineral diesel.

Your truck will eat through the bottom of the fuel filter can, it will chew up lift pumps like pez candy, and will ruin the occasional injector. Glow plug life will only be around 50,000 miles or less, as opposed to 100,000 normally.
We have been running one 92 ford two cummins and four or five farm tractors without any of those issues.
Note: we do not run B100 we do run as high as B70 at times.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 11:45:56 PM EST
Check out DudaDiesel for biodiesel production equipment and chemicals.
Link Posted: 3/8/2011 2:21:44 AM EST
If you decide to make it, I'd be very leary of the "Journey to Forever" types and their instructions. They do not have a good rep in the bio-making business.

Google "Girl Mark"; she has a very good .pdf tutorial on making biodesiel for small users.

Listen to Keith, don't use over B20 in any electronic engine. Get rid of and/or recover the methanol.

Good help those that decide to run SVO in their engines, especially if they don't have a two tank system.

Good luck.

Link Posted: 3/8/2011 10:03:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Merlin:
If you decide to make it, I'd be very leary of the "Journey to Forever" types and their instructions. They do not have a good rep in the bio-making business.

Google "Girl Mark"; she has a very good .pdf tutorial on making biodesiel for small users.

Listen to Keith, don't use over B20 in any electronic engine. Get rid of and/or recover the methanol.

Good help those that decide to run SVO in their engines, especially if they don't have a two tank system.

Good luck.



You're talking about the Appleseed processors I mentioned in the OP.
Link Posted: 3/8/2011 3:00:50 PM EST
Figured, but didn't want to assume since it's been quite a while since I read Girl Mark's stuff.

Good luck man!
Link Posted: 3/8/2011 3:56:40 PM EST
Unless you have a guaranteed source of waste veg oil don’t even think about wasting your time on this mess anymore. Not too many years ago, if you had an older diesel and a source for waste oil, you could save some money making bio-diesel or running waste oil. If you love your vehicle, don’t even think about running waste oil in any modern diesel. Some legit bio blend is ok if approved by the manufacture, but even then it can cause issues if not properly manufactured.

Around here it is damn near impossible to find any restaurant that will give you the oil for free anymore. When the diesel prices got close to $5 a gallon a few years ago, most of the restaurants here stop giving it away and many started charging you for it. It got so bad people actually started stealing the waste oil from restaurants after hours. Most of the waste oil tanks at these restaurants now have padlocks on them. Most of these restaurants have to pay to have this oil disposed of and some still won’t give it away or offer to sell it to the general public. I guess they got sick of people loitering, fighting and hovering around their restaurants all day and night looking for waste oil, many were also concerned about liability issues.

A coworker of mine had an old Mercedes diesel that he converted to run on waste veg oil. It worked ok, but not great. When running on 100% waste oil the car would have some power and mileage loss compared to running petro diesel. The exhaust smelled like a combination of French fries and Chinese food. He finally sold it after he lost all of his sources for waste oil.

It sucks paying close to $4 a gallon for diesel, but at least you know that it won’t tear up your engine. The little bit of savings you get trying to run these waste fuels or homemade bio-blends is just not worth the repairs that often have to be made when something goes wrong.
Link Posted: 3/8/2011 3:59:20 PM EST
OST for info !
Link Posted: 3/8/2011 4:04:50 PM EST
Watch your cornhole.

It's just a matter of time until the government tries taxing something you made yourself.

I believe I read about a Canadian that was fined for producing his own and not paying the "road tax"....
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top