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Posted: 8/24/2004 6:18:18 PM EST
Thinking about moving to NY soon. I am currently in the PRK and have a .40 cal handgun that I use for home defense duties. I am most likely going to be leaving my handguns here in CA until the dust settles in NY and I have alot of spare time and $$$$ to have them registered in NY. ANYWAYS....I am going to want to switch to a rifle for home defense purposes. I am going to pick up a pre-ban AR (only prebans get the fun goodies in NY) for home defense. I am planing on modifying the weapon to meet my needs (home defense). A collapsable stock is in order (make the rifle more maneuverable indoors) and some sort of surefire type light for the forend. MY QUESTION HOWEVER FOR THE ARFCOMERS.....what is the best rifle set-up for home defense at night...I dont have much experience with the situation, and I am curious what the best way to aim a rifle at night. indoors/outdoors (backyard). Use the surefire as an aiming tool? Surefire/iron sights? Bother with anykind of an aimpoint etc in such close quarters?

any info/suggestions/smart ass remarks are appreciated
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:20:41 PM EST
For a HD rifle, I prefer the 12 ga. kind
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:21:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
For a HD rifle, I prefer the 12 ga. kind



Remington 870HD
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:25:32 PM EST
To modify an AR for home defense you would need to conver it to a 12 guage shotgun upper (Read Joke) 223 would be a pretty serious overpenatration danger, unless you got a big ass house. Sure frangible would fix that. A winchester Defender or Mossy would be better if your going to do a long gun. Plus the cocking sound of butting a shotgun in battery is a very unique sound that any criminal will hear loud and clear and most likely turn and run. remeber the best gun fight is the one that doesnt happen. Civil court is a bitch. Typically your now dead assailant comes from a family with little money. So the slip and fall attorney prods the low income family into a civil suite. In NY your 50-50 at best. SAme applaies with the 223 overpenatration. It would suck to kill an innocent neighbors child spraying .223 all over the place. Then you get sued for it. Buy a shotgun and sleep easy.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:32:19 PM EST
I do have a mossy 590....shotgun is good advice
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:32:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 7:13:05 PM EST by hepcat85]
For Home defense, you don't want an AR. Go for a Rem 870, extended mag tube, add a Surefire forend and top it with a set of ghost rings.


Shit, you can just stick with this...


Sweet, simple, reliable and cheap right out of the box.

Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range. With tactical loads (#4 buckshot) you wouldn't need to worry about penetrating several walls, but more importantly everyone or anyone who makes "a living" by B&E will know that distinctive metallic sound when you chamber a shell.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:35:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
For a HD rifle, I prefer the 12 ga. kind



Remington 870HD


Benelli M1 Tactical

CW
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:35:37 PM EST
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:36:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 6:36:49 PM EST by QuietShootr]
Jesucristo, the Misinformation Squad is really out in force tonight.

Disregard all that shit you read above if you actually want to know what to do. Buckshot overpenetrates more than 5.56.

Aimpoint, SureFire forearm rail mounted light, and 77gr TAP or Mk262.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:36:42 PM EST
Hey guys,



www.ammo-oracle.com



Sheesh.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:37:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Hey guys,



www.ammo-oracle.com



Sheesh.



No kidding.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:37:21 PM EST
In addition to the ballistic advantages, you might also prefer having a $200 shotgun confiscated and held as evidence after a defensive shooting, instead of the $1500 AR-15.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:37:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 6:38:11 PM EST by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
For Home defense, you don't want an AR. Go for a Rem 870, extended mag tube, add a Surefire forend and top it with a set of ghost rings.
www.mkgamers.com/bhd/images/remington870shotgun.gif

Shit, you can just stick with this...
www.kyimports.com/Thumbs/remington870police.JPG

Sweet, simple, reliable and cheap right out of the box.

Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range, just get it in their direction. With tactical loads you wouldn't need to worry about penetrating several walls and your background, and everyone or anyone who makes "a living" by B&E will know that distinctive metallic sound when you chamber a shell.



Where do you get your information - Mike Hammer novels?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:38:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:39:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Botch:
MY QUESTION HOWEVER FOR THE ARFCOMERS.....what is the best rifle set-up for home defense at night...


Since many of the others seem to have an issue trying to figure out the difference between a rifle and shotgun....

Keep it simple and short. 16" barrel - not muzzle brake - A1 stock or shorter. Light (Surefire) is a MUST. Ammo should be Black Hills 68gr, 69gr, or 75gr (if your particular rifle will stabilize it).

Black hills is selected because it's low flash, inexpensive, and those particular bullets perform VERY well as defensive rounds and don't have the overpenetration issues that handguns and buckshot/slugs have.



I dont have much experience with the situation, and I am curious what the best way to aim a rifle at night. indoors/outdoors (backyard). Use the surefire as an aiming tool? Surefire/iron sights? Bother with anykind of an aimpoint etc in such close quarters?


Aimpoint is a VERY good thing.

However there is an easy way to get some leaning on this subject. FIRE Institute has some EXCELLENT classes on handling a carbine for these kind of situations. Even the basic course touches on night shooting (you will fire rounds at night). Classes are held in Pittsburgh and not too far away from any point in NY. Lots of site members have been there, including the NY Crew.

Get Trained! and FIRE classes are the inexpensive way to do it.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:39:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:41:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range, just get it in their direction.



Obviously you are someone who has NEVER shot a shotgun at close range. At typical home distances spread is only a few inches - you still have to aim it just like any other long arm.

Go back to reading your 'spy books' and let the grown ups talk.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:43:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
For Home defense, you don't want an AR. Go for a Rem 870, extended mag tube, add a Surefire forend and top it with a set of ghost rings.
www.mkgamers.com/bhd/images/remington870shotgun.gif

Shit, you can just stick with this...
www.kyimports.com/Thumbs/remington870police.JPG

Sweet, simple, reliable and cheap right out of the box.

Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range, just get it in their direction. With tactical loads you wouldn't need to worry about penetrating several walls and your background, and everyone or anyone who makes "a living" by B&E will know that distinctive metallic sound when you chamber a shell.



You are responsible for everything you put downrange. You better aim everything you shoot.

Nevermind the 4 rules.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:44:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 6:48:21 PM EST by 1776]

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?

Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:47:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now?



Overpenatration applies indoors as well. Do you have kids? Are the police entering after your wife calls 911. Sure would suck to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, when 1 of the birds is your child or a LEO.
Of course I dunno your situation, but overpenatraion should alwyas be a concern. Shit, I don't want to clean all the blood off the walls!
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:51:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now?



Overpenatration applies indoors as well. Do you have kids? Are the police entering after your wife calls 911. Sure would suck to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, when 1 of the birds is your child or a LEO.
Of course I dunno your situation, but overpenatraion should alwyas be a concern. Shit, I don't want to clean all the blood off the walls!




So are you of the opinion that 223 is not going to go thru drywall?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:52:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:52:46 PM EST
Geez, these guys with their magical shotguns are worse than the airsofters.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:54:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 6:55:05 PM EST by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now?



Overpenatration applies indoors as well. Do you have kids? Are the police entering after your wife calls 911. Sure would suck to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, when 1 of the birds is your child or a LEO.
Of course I dunno your situation, but overpenatraion should alwyas be a concern. Shit, I don't want to clean all the blood off the walls!




So are you of the opinion that 223 is not going to go thru drywall?



From ammo-oracle :

Fact: Evidence increasingly shows that 5.56 FMJ rounds like M193 and M855 are not the over-penetration risk they have often been though of as. In interior wall tests, 5.56 rounds have less wounding potential after wall strikes than any common 9mm or above handgun ammunition and/or 00 Buck shotgun loads.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:54:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Geez, these guys with their magical shotguns are worse than the airsofters.



1776 is cut of the same bolt of cloth as the airsofters.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:56:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.



Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:57:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.



Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room.





Junior, the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a bigger ass...and I wasn't even sure you could do that. Run along, now.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:59:48 PM EST
OK, OK I give up. Pump shotguns are the perfect solution to every defensive situation. That is precisely why police departments the world over have been dumping their M4 carbines for 870s and 500s for the last ten years.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:00:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?




you want less recoil, bigger pattern.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:02:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.



Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room.





Junior, the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a bigger ass...and I wasn't even sure you could do that. Run along, now.



What exactly are you trying to prove? Shotguns and handguns are not good for home defense and an AR15 is sooooo much better? Where are you trying to hijack this thread to?

Please do tell.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:04:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.



Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room.





Junior, the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a bigger ass...and I wasn't even sure you could do that. Run along, now.



What exactly are you trying to prove? Shotguns and handguns are not good for home defense and an AR15 is sooooo much better? Where are you trying to hijack this thread to?

Please do tell.



The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole.

Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up.

Are we all clear now?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:08:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 7:09:08 PM EST by triburst1]

Originally Posted By 1776:

What exactly are you trying to prove? Shotguns and handguns are not good for home defense and an AR15 is sooooo much better? Where are you trying to hijack this thread to?

Please do tell.



Actually, Botch was asking about home defense RIFLES.

That was before the team of tactical duck hunters showed up.

How long before someone reccomends #6 shot for the old home defense shotgun?

Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:10:06 PM EST
Aww, shit. Now I'm all confused.
You guys keep going with this...please.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:10:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Jesucristo, the Misinformation Squad is really out in force tonight.

Disregard all that shit you read above if you actually want to know what to do. Buckshot overpenetrates more than 5.56.

Aimpoint, SureFire forearm rail mounted light, and 77gr TAP or Mk262.





+1

Anything that will penetrate a man will penetrate sheetrock. You ALWAYS need to consider background.

But squeezing off single rounds against an intruder isn't ideal. If some prick is in your house you want to rack the slide, point, and fire.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:10:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.



Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room.





Junior, the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a bigger ass...and I wasn't even sure you could do that. Run along, now.



What exactly are you trying to prove? Shotguns and handguns are not good for home defense and an AR15 is sooooo much better? Where are you trying to hijack this thread to?

Please do tell.



The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole.

Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up.

Are we all clear now?



No you are the one who charged in here like superman and ripped your shirt off to expose the "S" on your chest. Go back and read your posts and tell me thats not how you came off. Thats when I took offence.
Go ahead and re-read it.

See? you came off like a know it all fuck jerk. The readers and posters in this thread deserve an apology from you. Be a man and step up.

I will go first.

Sorry for calling you out on your know it all attitude.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:10:48 PM EST
[FloydRTurbo]You jest rack the ol' deer gun and them sumbitches will piss in thar pants and run like a stripe-assed ape![/FRT]
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:13:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By Botch:
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?



I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs.



Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns...




Who says I am worried about over penetration?

Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window.
Where is your your .223 now jackass?


BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns?




Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang...

Good
For
You.

I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something.



Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room.





Junior, the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a bigger ass...and I wasn't even sure you could do that. Run along, now.



What exactly are you trying to prove? Shotguns and handguns are not good for home defense and an AR15 is sooooo much better? Where are you trying to hijack this thread to?

Please do tell.



The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole.

Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up.

Are we all clear now?



No you are the one who charged in here like superman and ripped your shirt off to expose the "S" on your chest. Go back and read your posts and tell me thats not how you came off. Thats when I took offence.
Go ahead and re-read it.

See? you came off like a know it all fuck jerk. The readers and posters in this thread deserve an apology from you. Be a man and step up.

I will go first.

Sorry for calling you out on your know it all attitude.



Okay, I'm sorry I pointed out you're a know-nothing fuckstick.

Why do I get the feeling of arguing with a potted plant?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:13:34 PM EST
For home defenche you want a 1911 with a light and laded with 1/1 hydra shock/FMJ a 12ga with a shure fire and pistol grip loaded with 00-buck a backup .357 and a sub gun with a supresor

now this is just what i have read on this forum i have no firearms expereance with any thing other then a frends .410 single shot and some high power air rifles i acept no responceability for body harm/dismembermint or death it might be smart to take classes like CCW and go to thunder rige
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:14:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
For Home defense, you don't want an AR. Go for a Rem 870, extended mag tube, add a Surefire forend and top it with a set of ghost rings.
www.mkgamers.com/bhd/images/remington870shotgun.gif

Shit, you can just stick with this...
www.kyimports.com/Thumbs/remington870police.JPG

Sweet, simple, reliable and cheap right out of the box.

Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range, just get it in their direction. With tactical loads you wouldn't need to worry about penetrating several walls and your background, and everyone or anyone who makes "a living" by B&E will know that distinctive metallic sound when you chamber a shell.



Where do you get your information - Mike Hammer novels?




Yeah, and asshats like you.....
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:14:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 7:15:11 PM EST by triburst1]

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
[FloydRTurbo]You jest rack the ol' deer gun and them sumbitches will piss in thar pants and run like a stripe-assed ape![/FRT]



..and it helps if ya got a mean 'ol look on yer face.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:16:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 7:18:48 PM EST by 1776]

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:


Okay, I'm sorry I pointed out you're a know-nothing fuckstick.





Dont apologise to me. You owe it to the readers and poster in this thread.

Step up.


BTW did you reread your posts? Most likly not, you're far too busy stroking your ego among other things.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:17:39 PM EST
Quietshooter certainly doesn't owe me an apology. If anything, I think I'll apologize. I offered my own opinion but didn't contribute to answering the original question.

IBTL
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:17:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range, just get it in their direction.



Obviously you are someone who has NEVER shot a shotgun at close range. At typical home distances spread is only a few inches - you still have to aim it just like any other long arm.

Go back to reading your 'spy books' and let the grown ups talk.




Actually, I have, but thanks for playing.

Buckshot will spread atleast 4"...which last time I took out my calipers and checked, is a tiny bit wider than AR ammo......


And you know what, try and be civil...and let me get back to my spybook grampa.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:19:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By Botch:
MY QUESTION HOWEVER FOR THE ARFCOMERS.....what is the best rifle set-up for home defense at night...


Since many of the others seem to have an issue trying to figure out the difference between a rifle and shotgun....

Keep it simple and short. 16" barrel - not muzzle brake - A1 stock or shorter. Light (Surefire) is a MUST. Ammo should be Black Hills 68gr, 69gr, or 75gr (if your particular rifle will stabilize it).

Black hills is selected because it's low flash, inexpensive, and those particular bullets perform VERY well as defensive rounds and don't have the overpenetration issues that handguns and buckshot/slugs have.



I dont have much experience with the situation, and I am curious what the best way to aim a rifle at night. indoors/outdoors (backyard). Use the surefire as an aiming tool? Surefire/iron sights? Bother with anykind of an aimpoint etc in such close quarters?


Aimpoint is a VERY good thing.

However there is an easy way to get some leaning on this subject. FIRE Institute has some EXCELLENT classes on handling a carbine for these kind of situations. Even the basic course touches on night shooting (you will fire rounds at night). Classes are held in Pittsburgh and not too far away from any point in NY. Lots of site members have been there, including the NY Crew.

Get Trained! and FIRE classes are the inexpensive way to do it.



Good point, he did ask the correct question and got wrong answers. +1000 on taking a course or 2.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:19:11 PM EST
.... and the best part is, if ya ever get ta shoot anybody with yer shotgun, they a go flyin' 'bout tweny feet up in tha air.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:22:43 PM EST
QuietShootr, you definitely owe me an apology. I hate it when when someone gets to correct the ignorant before I do.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:24:46 PM EST
I think QuietShooter nailed it as far as the AR goes. I do not think overpenetration is a problem if you hit your target. I believe the California Department of Corrections went back to the Mini-14 from a 9mm carbine because it was proven the .223 penetrated less.

I still believe the 12 ga with 00 Buck would be more likely to cause IMMEDIATE incapacitation
I believe the AR with 55-70 grain bullets would work just fine in most home defense situations.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:25:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 7:28:15 PM EST by hepcat85]
Please do tell.

The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole.

Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up.

Are we all clear now?



Yes, the poster did.....but merely suggesting a shotgun for home defense is a bad idea? No offense to the poster since this is an example that has nothing to do with him, but if he asked which samurai sword to use for home defense, wouldn't suggesting an alternative be appropriate?

However, I'm enjoying pants dropping and ruler grabbing....
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:26:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 7:28:02 PM EST by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By hepcat85:
[Please do tell.

The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole.

Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up.

Are we all clear now?


Yes, the poster did.....but merely suggesting a shotgun for home defense is a bad idea? No offense to the poster since this is an example that has nothing to do with him, but if he asked which samurai sword to use for home defense, wouldn't suggesting an alternative be appropriate?

However, I'm enjoying pants dropping and ruler grabbing....



If a guy posted asking about the best motorcycle for commuting to school, would you find a suggestion that he buy a ten-speed bike a useful answer?

Edit: This water's cold....and deep, too.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:27:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
.... and the best part is, if ya ever get ta shoot anybody with yer shotgun, they a go flyin' 'bout tweny feet up in tha air.



Holy Shit! Mike Hammer like, just did that and junk! Chapter 5 is like, sooooo cool.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:28:39 PM EST
QuietShootr, do you and 1776 have some ongoing pissing contest or do you just normally come across as an arrogant prick?
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