Home Invasion "NEW"

Posted: 12/1/2005 4:48:29 PM EDT

Original thread for background information.

My original question regarding a safe room for family during a burglary/home invasion was proved to be a wise idea. A lot of intelligent replies were made by most involved. Both LEOs andNon-LEOs took amlple time out of their schedule to provide sound options to homeowners, like me, who may have had certain amounts of training but are not as well versed as those who deal with criminals everyday. Thanks to all of you who responded, minus a select few

's. The information you shared will provide certain advantages for those of us willing to absorb the information and put in place a plan to keep our loved ones safe.

If more of you would like to continue this discussion, please feel free to do so. I would enjoy the dialog.

For the mods, is there something we can do to clean up the original thread and pin it for future reference?

Posted: 12/1/2005 5:31:50 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

For the mods, is there something we can do to clean up the original thread and pin it for future reference?

Working on it.

Posted: 12/1/2005 6:11:57 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:

For the mods, is there something we can do to clean up the original thread and pin it for future reference?

Working on it.

Awesome!

Posted: 12/2/2005 1:12:04 AM EDT

[#3]

I apologize for any glib remarks I made, they were only intentended to demonstrate that I do not take myself too seriously.
If home invasion is a concern for you I submit the following:
Three factors required for a crime are; Desire, Ability and Opportunity.
The only factor we can control is opportunity.
Home invasion is a high risk crime for the bad guys.
If you are regular people and not obviously rich your risk is low.
If you are rich you need to hire mehinkDeter, Detect. Delay.
Make your home a place that bad guys do not want to mess with.
Lighting, alarms, dogs will deter.
Cameras or good neighbors will detect.
Good locks and physical security will delay.
Go to your front door with a srewdriver and remove the strike plates from your locks. If you have not changed them you will find little screws that only extend into the frame trim.
This is standard, this is why I can kick a door open.
Go to Home Depot, Lowe's or other home store and buy security strike plates, they are much longer than standard and come with 3 inch screws. The longer screws extend into the stud of the door frame and drastically improve the integrity of the lock.
A high dollar lock with a standard strike plate is a waste of money.
I personaly will defend in place if some badguys make entry to my home. I have the long screws, good locks etc.
It will take some work for them to get in. I have dogs. Anyone that STILL wants in after having to batter the door and fight the dogs is most likely going to get shot.
I can explain that to a Grand Jury.
I have been the police for 25 years. I have been in one shooting. I really don't want to do it again.
But I will.
I don't know where you live but your local police departrment may have a crime prevention officer and he/she will come to your home and tell you these things in more detail.
Stay safe.

Posted: 12/2/2005 4:55:11 AM EDT

[#4]

Another thing I have not seen mentioned. Quite often, the invaders are acqaintances or their associates, and have a working knowledge of your house.

Such thing as your kid and his friends bragging about seeing your gun collection, how your wife has a lot of jewelry, or that you have a home business and keep a lot of cash. Even that nice guy your sister invited to a BBQ could qualify as an intel source. Imagine him at his workplace talking about the several $K you have tied up in stereo and computer equipment.

This also applies to contract employees such as carpet cleaners, repairmen, maids, anyone that has access to your house.

I'm overly paranoid about such things, which is why I do all housework and carpet cleaning myself. Better than having some guys on work-release wandering around my house.

The wife just thinks I'm nuts.

There are two ways to approach hardening your home. You can harden the exterior, (bars on the windows and such) or you can harden selected areas within the home. (gun room, bedroom) I went with the latter for two reasons. First, the wife freaked when I mentioned putting bars on all the windows and doors, and I'm really hoping someone steals those Godawful figurines she collects.

Posted: 12/2/2005 4:55:25 PM EDT

[#5]

These are all fantstic options. Do any of you have multiple weapons stashed in the house. I have friends who have several guns locacted in easy to grab areas out of plain vire. I don't know how to feel aout this. I know there can be no such thing as overly prepared, but what determines how prepared a person should be?

Posted: 12/2/2005 5:56:51 PM EDT

[#6]

I don't know about guns all over the place, but I have a few in various places out of sight. (I also live alone except for my dogs and they don't mess with my guns!) I would certainly keep one handgun very near the front door as that is a primary avenue for the "foot in the door" approach and I, for one, do not wear a gun in the house all the time. (I also have one within arm's reach as I type this)

If you have kids, this is not a good approach, and some officers would prefer fewer loaded guns available to burglars or home invaders (but they are not likely to be looking for firearms) but I do things my way, and I do not have a wired alarm in any case...just an audible. (Of course my next door neighbor has a shotgun and stays home all the time!

)

Posted: 12/3/2005 11:19:31 AM EDT

[#7]

As my name has implied, I am stupid, but cannot help to throw in a few stupid opinions.

1. For those who advocate a WWIII at home, please read two books before doing this again:
Book 1 "In the Gravest Extreme"
Book 2 "Strong on Defense"

If you don't know where to buy them, I can sell them to you.

And of course, I like to be a warrior myself. There are places that you can kill people for fun, but I don't think I want to go there. Maybe you do.

2. Locks, better doors, alarms, cameras, and night visions are more useful than guns. If you buy a 200K house and cannot afford another 10K to get those things done, you need to start thinking about your financial security first.

3. Do NOT clear your house yourself!!!

That's why you need alarms and cameras, hell, the cameras are so cheap that many stores are giving them away. If you have the money, which isn't much, have the cameras on some separate wires or batteries. Have night vision cameras if you wish.

With cameras, you can sit in one room and see them all. I can even install them for you if you want.

Posted: 12/3/2005 11:22:47 AM EDT

[#8]

I like the idea of "safe room". I don't keep loaded guns at home, but I do keep guns within reach. All my guns are within a few steps from my bed.

Actually, the difficult part is not all that. It is to get wife trained on those things such as alarms, SHTF situation and guns. I would like to hear suggestions on this. Wives and kids tend to think guys are protectors of the home. The thing is, we might be neutralized by the bad guys before we can protect anything.

Posted: 12/4/2005 4:59:57 AM EDT

[#9]

TheStupid;

To address your issues...just a few thoughts...

1) I read Mas Ayoob's books many years ago. Have never seen the other one.

2) All those things certainly CAN be useful, and are good to have, but what they really do...just like a dog...is buy you time. It is up to you how you use that added time. In the unlikely event (for most non-dopers, etc.) of an all-out, balls to the walls, home invasion, there will be precious few seconds to spare, even with all those safeguards in place, and if...big IF, but as Quarterbore's kin discovered, it CAN happen...you have to fight, you had best be equipped and prepared to do so. If it comes to that, those cameras and locks are now NOT more useful than guns and lights.

3) Good advice, but, like most things in life, there are exceptions to any "rule". You simply cannot call 911 every time you hear a noise downstairs. If you do, you will soon find yourself in the position of the little boy who cried "Wolf" too often. No doubt it is better to take a strong position and let the bad guys come to you...IF you can...but what happens if that option is taken away from you? (Maybe you slept on the couch downstairs for any of a hundred reasons...or?...name your poison)

Sit in one room and look at cameras? When? For how long? At what point are you going to go get your guns and load them? What is the response time for LE in your area? A rural area at 3AM is a different animal from downtown in a large city, but even then you will be on your own for several minutes at least. Some guys here can probably expect a 30 minute response time.

Safe room concept is a good idea, for sure, and I am all for it, but I don't put all my eggs in one basket.

As far as getting the wife and older kids onboard for SHTF / home protection, good luck. Most women simply do not want to consider these possibilities, and I have seen some who will deny even what is right in front of their eyes. If you are serious, do some "home safety drills" at 2AM or so once in a while. They will pay dividends in the event of a real security breach, but the family will think you are nucking futz.

Posted: 12/4/2005 5:06:50 AM EDT

[#10]

Suggestion:

12 volt battery system powering lights through out the house - master switch in the MBR, safe room, etc.

BGs invade your home after cutting power/comm/etc, you can light up the house interior. Modify as necessary. IE - leave your nav route semi-dark to prevent exposure.

If the BGs are just hitting the house because it's dark, the lights may scatter them. If they're trained BGs hell bent on getting you, the lights may be of no consequence.

EDIT: Hey, I just posted in the LEO Forum

Posted: 12/4/2005 7:13:55 AM EDT

[#11]

Use your cameras to clear your house.

Because they are so cheap, you can have them in every single room. If you have money, get the camera with night vision capability; if no money, get those motion controlled lights. Put both cameras and lights on separate circuit or batteries. One step into any room, lights will be on and camera will be rolling. All you need to do is to review the tapes - hard drives nowadays - from your safe place.

The whole setup - not night vision of course - will not go over $2000 - provided you have a computer already.

Besides better locks and doors, you can put a special film on all your glass windows/doors. Then it will take a huge rock or a Cat. 5 hurricane to break your window. This is a quite expensive solution though, 3-4K easily. The benefit is because the film also filter out heat and preserve heat inside of a house, your electricity bill will go down.

Posted: 12/4/2005 7:22:16 AM EDT

[#12]

Another thing most people do not think about it is what we would do when bad guys seized a family member, put a knife/guns/stick on him/her and asked us to surrender?

Even we have guns in hands, what would you do?

Since I am stupid, I would shoot the bad guy without a blink of eyes. There's no way for me to lay down my arms during a deadly conflict. Imaging those bad guys would follow Geneva convention to tream POWs?

Posted: 12/4/2005 7:26:53 AM EDT

[#13]

A recent HI in our town saw the BG's breaking into an appartment in search of drugs they felt were there. Too bad for the existing tenant that the drug dealer who had lived there had recently moved out and the landlord had rented the appartment to an unsuspecting couple. They were tied up and roughed up a bit but survived.

Regards,
Gary

Posted: 12/4/2005 8:17:28 AM EDT

[#14]

JohninAustin makes some very good points about exposure. Most of the home burglaries we see here are comitted by someone that had been in the home before. Same logic applies to someone setting up an invasion, although it is a lot safer for the badguys to break in when you are at work.
ikor too makes valid points that I can not dispute.
The Stupid is just well, not all that stupid.howAs I said there is no correct answer for everyone.
On the subject of cameras..they can be great, they can also cause a false sense of security. We ran a warrant on a meth / fraud / burglary house a few months ago. We knew the occupants had security cameras (because I had been there three days earlier for a disturbance call at which time I made a mental map of the place) Note to bad guys, don't call the police for bullshit disputes :)
We took the doors down at 0500, all the TV's in the house were tuned to the cameras. They should have seen us coming, they were all asleep. Except for the guy watching porn on his TV. They had weapons within arms reach that they never got a chance to reach (thank God).
If you have 8-10 armed people breach your doors with precision, speed and violence of action you are in a bad spot.
I would be in the same spot.
So do we live in fear or do we make reasonable preperations?
They are not going to (usually) break into your home when you are there unless they have some expectation of scoring big.
If they want your stuff they will wait until you go to work.
It is good to consider and prepare for a home invasion, it is the most scary scenario for all of us, but it is pretty rare when you look at overall crime stats.
I will not make my home a prison with bars on the windows, I will make it hard for badguys to get in. I work rotating shifts so no one knows when I am awake hatThings I taught my kids; just because the phone rings does not mean you have to answer, same for the door. Pablov taught dogs to respond to bells, humans tend to do the same for some reason.
Bad habit.

Stay safe.

Posted: 12/4/2005 11:53:55 AM EDT

[#15]

Well, if a bunch of ninja and SWAT with night vision goggles coming in, I don't think anybody would have a chance.

There was a guy, in Canada i think, who spent 14 years building his home defense system. The underground tunnels are amazing. I don't think I want to spend my money and time that way.

Posted: 12/4/2005 12:24:52 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Well, if a bunch of ninja and SWAT with night vision goggles coming in, I don't think anybody would have a chance.

There was a guy, in Canada i think, who spent 14 years building his home defense system. The underground tunnels are amazing. I don't think I want to spend my money and time that way.

You don't know my contingency plans

!

Great info here...if for no other reason than to get us ALL to think more about security...pass the info on to your loved ones.

I have a standing rule that no one but me answers the door if the knocker is unknown...wife and in-laws are very understanding...answered the door a couple times with the trusty stainless smith behind my leg....."...can I help you?"

Posted: 12/5/2005 10:18:21 AM EDT

[#17]

Had a woman come to the door a few minutes ago. A minvan with 3 men in it were parked at the curb in front of the house to the right of mine. I opened the door with my USP ready and politely asked what she wanted. She was trying to give away some free wrapped gift for Christmas to receive feedback on a new product. I polietly declined her offer.

I can't believe people politely take these free gifts. If I were paranoid, I could see this gift being some type of remote controlled device to designed to disable a homeowner to gain entry to the home. It might have been a very nice gift and a sincere gesture, but you never can tell.

EDIT. Come to think of it, she was holding the wrapped gift in tissue paper. Seems odd to me.

Posted: 12/5/2005 10:47:58 AM EDT

[#18]

What JIA said.

Posted: 12/5/2005 12:19:38 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I like the idea of "safe room". I don't keep loaded guns at home, but I do keep guns within reach. All my guns are within a few steps from my bed.

Actually, the difficult part is not all that. It is to get wife trained on those things such as alarms, SHTF situation and guns. I would like to hear suggestions on this. Wives and kids tend to think guys are protectors of the home. The thing is, we might be neutralized by the bad guys before we can protect anything.

Totally NOT on topic, but what you said made me think of something funny. Next time there's a "bump in the night" that anyone's wife wants them to investigate, you can just tell her "But Honey, I already took out the trash and mowed the lawn today. You want equality, take the gun/bat/golfclub and go check it yourself."

Posted: 12/5/2005 12:22:33 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
<snip>
3) Good advice, but, like most things in life, there are exceptions to any "rule". You simply cannot call 911 every time you hear a noise downstairs. If you do, you will soon find yourself in the position of the little boy who cried "Wolf" too often. No doubt it is better to take a strong position and let the bad guys come to you...IF you can...but what happens if that option is taken away from you? (Maybe you slept on the couch downstairs for any of a hundred reasons...or?...name your poison)
<snip>

Easy one: You have children, and they don't sleep in the same room/bed as you (and/or your wife) do.

Posted: 12/5/2005 4:30:48 PM EDT

[#21]

I don't think you are married. That is going to open such a big can of worms!!! You would hear her talking till the end of the week.

Quoted:

Actually, the difficult part is not all that. It is to get wife trained on those things such as alarms, SHTF situation and guns. I would like to hear suggestions on this. Wives and kids tend to think guys are protectors of the home. The thing is, we might be neutralized by the bad guys before we can protect anything.

Totally NOT on topic, but what you said made me think of something funny. Next time there's a "bump in the night" that anyone's wife wants them to investigate, you can just tell her "But Honey, I already took out the trash and mowed the lawn today. You want equality, take the gun/bat/golfclub and go check it yourself."

Posted: 12/5/2005 5:55:34 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, the difficult part is not all that. It is to get wife trained on those things such as alarms, SHTF situation and guns. I would like to hear suggestions on this. Wives and kids tend to think guys are protectors of the home. The thing is, we might be neutralized by the bad guys before we can protect anything.

Totally NOT on topic, but what you said made me think of something funny. Next time there's a "bump in the night" that anyone's wife wants them to investigate, you can just tell her "But Honey, I already took out the trash and mowed the lawn today. You want equality, take the gun/bat/golfclub and go check it yourself."

I don't think you are married. That is going to open such a big can of worms!!! You would hear her talking till the end of the week.

Oh, I am married, bud! I never said that *I* would say it, though.

I ain't stupid.

Posted: 12/28/2005 8:25:23 AM EDT

[#23]

tagged

Here was the original thread

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=76&t=413306

Posted: 12/28/2005 4:05:11 PM EDT

[#24]

Just another note (I don't know if it was mentioned above), the Bad Guys don't need to cut any wires to cut off your home phone. They just need to take one off the hook. Or, if you have a cordless, hit the button that turns it on. Then your phones are as good as cut. Always keep your cell phone near your bed.

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