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Posted: 8/29/2004 12:20:09 PM EST
I hear this phrase a lot but I have a hard time imagining going for a long gun if I have a perfectly good handgun (.45 or 10mm in my case) already with me. The time you spend going to another room/garage to unlock your long guns might be better spent

1. Going to the Kids room
2. Going after the intruder
3. Calling Police

Yeah, I know you gain an advantage with a long gun but to me its like trying to take your coat off while someone's punching you so you can hit him better.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:23:22 PM EST
For home defense? What real advantage does a long gun, say an AK47 or an AR15, give you? If you need more firepower inside your home than a handgun can provide, then either its WWIII or your aim really sucks...

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:30:00 PM EST
Doesn't seem real practical to me, at least for home defense. The type of threat most likely to be faced by a homeowner is a handful of thugs looking to steal anything that looks expensive or to beat up on or rape someone. If you can't drive that off with your bedside handgun, then a bigger gun probably won't help you.

Even if you're facing a bunch of super-tactical armored ninjas, you probably won't have time to fight with anything but what's close at hand. If you have to "fight your way to it" then you'll probably never make it to it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:36:14 PM EST
I think that it's a SHTF zombie invasion TEOTWAWKI type scenario mindset thing.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:36:28 PM EST
Yes it is good advice, there is no such thing as a "good" handgun when compared to a rifle or shotgun.

Although I will add, if its your home, why you would be so far away from a long gun you would have to fight your way to it?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:39:55 PM EST
My M1 works fine for home defense. Once I empty the clip, I have a 40" long wooden stick. That's gonna leave a mark!

Ben
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:40:45 PM EST
It would be nice to have available, but an AR just doesn't fit well on the night stand. I would hate to accidentally knock it off while reaching for the 'snooze' button.

Seriously, though. An AR is a great indoor weapon as it doesn't penetrates walls as easily as handgun bullets and has better stopping power. There is only a marginal difference in maneuverability with an AR --- unless you clear rooms with a handgun ONLY in Sul or retention positions (and nobody should). Another advantage for the AR indoors is the ease of using weapon mounted lights.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:40:59 PM EST
First in CQC I would think your pistol, as long as bigger the .25acp would be the best choice.
Easier to handle in close quarters, and still can get out a few shots fast. Also less likely to used against you.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:41:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 12:42:47 PM EST by Kharn]
The phrase is more applicable to out-and-about scenarios, when you cant take your truck gun with you, you use your handgun to fight your way back to your long gun. A long gun will win against a pistol in almost any gun fight assuming its operator does his/her part, so its worth trying to get to.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:42:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By TWIRE:
It would be nice to have available, but an AR just doesn't fit well on the night stand. I would hate to accidentally knock it off while reaching for the 'snooze' button.

Seriously, though. An AR is a great indoor weapon as it doesn't penetrates walls as easily as handgun bullets and has better stopping power. There is only a marginal difference in maneuverability with an AR --- unless you clear rooms with a handgun ONLY in Sul or retention positions (and nobody should). Another advantage for the AR indoors is the ease of using weapon mounted lights.



OA-98, Soon the 93's will be back
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:43:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:43:36 PM EST
Agreed it's more of a SHTF mindset than "normal" HD.

The handgun is beside the bed ready to go. I usually keep a handgun within reach elsewhere (esp. if it's hot and have the front or patio doors open). The safe is open when I'm home and not more than a couple of seconds from anywhere inside the house.

If for some reason I need the firepower, it's available. If a situation arose where my handgun was not enough to protect me during those few seconds to get to the safe, I don't think what's in the safe would have saved me either.

Now of course this is suburban residential SoCal. In more rural areas I might see a need to change my response strategy.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:43:46 PM EST
Get your long gun first and the handgun for back up
I prefer a my mossburg 500.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:43:47 PM EST
Why do you carry a pistol? Because they won't let you carry a rifle.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:47:47 PM EST
Any how I have a shotgun with 14 rounds, Ar-15 with a 30 round clip (only 20 round loaded)
Bedside.
Every once in a while the dogs go crazy at the back door, so that when I do the patrol. Never have caught any one breaking in however. No doubt just Fk'n cats driving the dogs nuts.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:49:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:
30 round clip



"Clip?"

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:49:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 12:52:22 PM EST by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By olyarms:
First in CQC I would think your pistol, as long as bigger the .25acp would be the best choice.
Easier to handle in close quarters, and still can get out a few shots fast. Also less likely to used against you.



I would think the reverse would be true. Its much easier to use take a handgun from someone and use it against them. Course this is assuming you have a proper sling for your carbine. But once you have thrown the loop of your one or three point sling over your shoulder its not possible for someone to take it from you and use it against you.

My AR- a big 20" no less- is between my nightstand and bed where it cannot fall over and is always in arms reach.

Thats important since we are in the midst of a veritable crime wave here, 4 burglaries and a stolen car. One of the burglaries was hot, while a faimly of 10 were home asleep upstairs.

Its sufficently annoying that I WILL be getting a carbine within the next year, but I am not giving it up for the Glock. While its always around the Glock is my CCW- its only carried because everything else I own is too big. On my own property that is not a issue.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:52:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 12:53:40 PM EST by M4-CQBR]

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
My M1 works fine for home defense. Once I empty the clip, I have a 40" long wooden stick. That's gonna leave a mark!

Ben




[Bevis rant] hehehehe ummm . . . . He said clip hehehehe [Bevis rant]



If my .45 won't stop em' well then the 12ga will have to do. Keep both close or one in each room
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:53:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4-CQBR:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
My M1 works fine for home defense. Once I empty the clip, I have a 40" long wooden stick. That's gonna leave a mark!

Ben




[Bevis rant] hehehehe ummm . . . . He said clip hehehehe [Bevis rant]



Its a M1 so he is correct.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:57:52 PM EST
Garands have clips.... Or so I think. Isn't that what those grey steel paper clip thingeys are for ?

Ben
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:00:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Yes it is good advice, there is no such thing as a "good" handgun when compared to a rifle or shotgun.

Although I will add, if its your home, why you would be so far away from a long gun you would have to fight your way to it?



I can secure my handgun in the house, but I can't keep the long guns by the bed. I have a 1 year old, a 3 year old and a wife who isn't crazy about guns.

Rifles and Shotguns are better...but does that alone make Handguns "not good enough?"
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:04:50 PM EST
I guess it all depends on where you live and who lives with you. I would say a shotgun would be the best thing to have...racking a pump shotgn at night echo's through my house and might be enough to scare someone off. Also, it owul dbe alot tharder to miss with a shotgun then with a pistol...but if you had a pistol and a shotgun, you would be set.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:05:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
First in CQC I would think your pistol, as long as bigger the .25acp would be the best choice.
Easier to handle in close quarters, and still can get out a few shots fast. Also less likely to used against you.



I would think the reverse would be true. Its much easier to use take a handgun from someone and use it against them. Course this is assuming you have a proper sling for your carbine. But once you have thrown the loop of your one or three point sling over your shoulder its not possible for someone to take it from you and use it against you.

My AR- a big 20" no less- is between my nightstand and bed where it cannot fall over and is always in arms reach.

Thats important since we are in the midst of a veritable crime wave here, 4 burglaries and a stolen car. One of the burglaries was hot, while a faimly of 10 were home asleep upstairs.

Its sufficently annoying that I WILL be getting a carbine within the next year, but I am not giving it up for the Glock. While its always around the Glock is my CCW- its only carried because everything else I own is too big. On my own property that is not a issue.


Coming around a wall with a 20 inch barrel, I think I would see you before you see me
Honestly theres really no way to get around that wall with a 20inch barrel ready to fire with out me getting your gun if I am in that room. Second I see that barrel I am gonna grab it then shoot yeah with my gun.

A pistol small, easy to get around with and use a lanyard. That way if some one does get it whoop get it back. But no one should get it if you fire it.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:11:52 PM EST
I think it’s very bad advice (despite being frequently said by Clint Smith - who I greatly respect).

As a general rule, if you don’t have a rifle on your person when a gunfight starts, the fight will be over before you can get to it.

Indeed, I suspect going for your rifle in the middle of a gunfight is more likely to get you killed.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:13:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Yes it is good advice, there is no such thing as a "good" handgun when compared to a rifle or shotgun.

Although I will add, if its your home, why you would be so far away from a long gun you would have to fight your way to it?



I can secure my handgun in the house, but I can't keep the long guns by the bed. I have a 1 year old, a 3 year old and a wife who isn't crazy about guns.

Rifles and Shotguns are better...but does that alone make Handguns "not good enough?"



Man you should of stated that from the BEGINING!

Having small children is a special case, you are pretty much stuck with a handgun untill the youngest reaches 10 or so. The FIRST rule is to HAVE A GUN so then yes a handgun on your person (the only place it can be both safe from kids and ready to use) is better than a long gun in the safe, unloaded.

Although AR's can be made fairly child safe. Remove the magazine and lock the bolt back, put a bicycle lock through the action when you are not around, when you are with it you can leave it unlocked and if you hear a noise slap in a magazine and trip the bolt and you are ready to go.

A toddler could not duplicate that series of motions.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:14:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
First in CQC I would think your pistol, as long as bigger the .25acp would be the best choice.
Easier to handle in close quarters, and still can get out a few shots fast. Also less likely to used against you.



I would think the reverse would be true. Its much easier to use take a handgun from someone and use it against them. Course this is assuming you have a proper sling for your carbine. But once you have thrown the loop of your one or three point sling over your shoulder its not possible for someone to take it from you and use it against you.

My AR- a big 20" no less- is between my nightstand and bed where it cannot fall over and is always in arms reach.

Thats important since we are in the midst of a veritable crime wave here, 4 burglaries and a stolen car. One of the burglaries was hot, while a faimly of 10 were home asleep upstairs.

Its sufficently annoying that I WILL be getting a carbine within the next year, but I am not giving it up for the Glock. While its always around the Glock is my CCW- its only carried because everything else I own is too big. On my own property that is not a issue.


Coming around a wall with a 20 inch barrel, I think I would see you before you see me
Honestly theres really no way to get around that wall with a 20inch barrel ready to fire with out me getting your gun if I am in that room. Second I see that barrel I am gonna grab it then shoot yeah with my gun.

A pistol small, easy to get around with and use a lanyard. That way if some one does get it whoop get it back. But no one should get it if you fire it.




Sure, oly, ok whatever you say
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:21:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 1:31:21 PM EST by olyarms]

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
First in CQC I would think your pistol, as long as bigger the .25acp would be the best choice.
Easier to handle in close quarters, and still can get out a few shots fast. Also less likely to used against you.



I would think the reverse would be true. Its much easier to use take a handgun from someone and use it against them. Course this is assuming you have a proper sling for your carbine. But once you have thrown the loop of your one or three point sling over your shoulder its not possible for someone to take it from you and use it against you.

My AR- a big 20" no less- is between my nightstand and bed where it cannot fall over and is always in arms reach.

Thats important since we are in the midst of a veritable crime wave here, 4 burglaries and a stolen car. One of the burglaries was hot, while a faimly of 10 were home asleep upstairs.

Its sufficently annoying that I WILL be getting a carbine within the next year, but I am not giving it up for the Glock. While its always around the Glock is my CCW- its only carried because everything else I own is too big. On my own property that is not a issue.


Coming around a wall with a 20 inch barrel, I think I would see you before you see me
Honestly theres really no way to get around that wall with a 20inch barrel ready to fire with out me getting your gun if I am in that room. Second I see that barrel I am gonna grab it then shoot yeah with my gun.

A pistol small, easy to get around with and use a lanyard. That way if some one does get it whoop get it back. But no one should get it if you fire it.




Sure, oly, ok whatever you say


So you don't think I could grab your barrel and keep it away from me? You have a sling so I am not going to turn it on you. But after I grab the barrel of your gun and make sure its not pointerd at me. I take my raised pistol and fire a few good shots. Bam dead.

Try going around a corner at home a few times. See if you can with out your barrel 2 feet ahead of you.

Okay so you have a 20 inch barrel so your guns roughly 3"3 inches, now me personally to make it around a corner with a gun, and being able to make it around a corner with out my gun leading me is about 1"6 inches. So with a 3"3 inch gun I would have about 2 feet of gun to grab.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:08:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
First in CQC I would think your pistol, as long as bigger the .25acp would be the best choice.
Easier to handle in close quarters, and still can get out a few shots fast. Also less likely to used against you.hr


I would think the reverse would be true. Its much easier to use take a handgun from someone and use it against them. Course this is assuming you have a proper sling for your carbine. But once you have thrown the loop of your one or three point sling over your shoulder its not possible for someone to take it from you and use it against you.

My AR- a big 20" no less- is between my nightstand and bed where it cannot fall over and is always in arms reach.

Thats important since we are in the midst of a veritable crime wave here, 4 burglaries and a stolen car. One of the burglaries was hot, while a faimly of 10 were home asleep upstairs.

Its sufficently annoying that I WILL be getting a carbine within the next year, but I am not giving it up for the Glock. While its always around the Glock is my CCW- its only carried because everything else I own is too big. On my own property that is not a issue.


Coming around a wall with a 20 inch barrel, I think I would see you before you see me Honestly
A pistol small, easy to get around with and use a lanyard. That way if some one does get it whoop get it back. But no one should get it if you fire it.




No offense but we don`t negotiate corners with fully extended long arms so someone can grab at them. Further, if you grab it the user can simply redirect it from his end and shoot you just the same. The variables are many, but don`t assume everyone is untrained and will hand you their rifle by coming around corners the way you discribed.

As for the original post, i would use a bazooka if i had one, and time to retrieve it. Yall be safe out there hug.gif
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:12:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Okay so you have a 20 inch barrel so your guns roughly 3"3 inches, now me personally to make it around a corner with a gun, and being able to make it around a corner with out my gun leading me is about 1"6 inches. So with a 3"3 inch gun I would have about 2 feet of gun to grab.



Think DEFENSE. Arm yourself. Gather the family. Circle the wagons. Call 911. In that order. Clearing a house occupied by hostiles by yourself, whatever you are amed with, is a good way to get killed, period.

There are several ways to move into the next room, cover a hallway or perform other necessary functions with a long gun (hint: I do it all of the time and teach others how to do it). There are also lots of nifty lttle retention techniques for hanging on to your long gun if someone tries to take it from you. The simplest and easiest of those is to let them have it, BULLETS FIRST.

That being said, when clearing a building (being proactive), the handgun is good primary weapon and probably the best choice. In any static confrontation, or anything where you have any time to prepare, the long gun is generally a better choice. Waiting in your master bedroom for the cavalry to arrive is generally your best option. If you have a more "proactive" career choice, the handgun is your most likely thing to use in any situations, but if you ever have time to get ready for potentially bad things, the carbine should come out.
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