I just got done reading a bit about Hamilton, and thought I'd see what you guys had to say about him.

Me, I'm personally more of a Jefferson person. I think that Hamilton was fairly forward thinking with regards to non-political stuff, primarily the need for the USA to industrialize, but politically, I can't say that I'm fond of his ideas (with the exception of a national bank -- as much as I am for states rights and such, you can't be the most powerful country in the world without a single, common currency).

Also, he was the author of the Federalist papers, which have turned out to be one of the most referenced documents in the history of this country.

So, what says arfcom? Was Hamilton just a 18th century FDR, or was he a great founding father, a la Washington, Jefferson and Madison?

He had his place as a subordinate.
Washington knew to never let him have full command.

he's a founding father, and one of the greatest up there with the three you mentioned

Jefferson:  the worlds most successful plagiarist!!

Quoted: he's a founding father, and one of the greatest up there with the three you mentioned

I'm not saying that he's not (that's the purpose of this thread), but how can one put people into the same category that were working almost completely opposed to one another?

He was one of three authors of the Federalist Papers (Madison and Jay) and, beside the bank, he was a horribly anti-republican founder.  He believed in creating an imperial system and there is talk that he considered attempting to take over the country with the aid of the continental army (this was made impossible because Washington refused outright).

"It says "We the People" on the Ten Dollar Bill.  When I first saw that, I laughed and showed it to my ConLaw professor.  He showed it to the class and we all laughed.  Beside some obvious contributions, I'm not a fan.  Love Jefferson though.

Hamilton was more important to the course our nation took than was Jefferson. Jefferson could turn a better phrase, but Hamilton understood the human condition and the requirements of government far better.

Quoted: Hamilton was more important to the course our nation took than was Jefferson. Jefferson could turn a better phrase, but Hamilton understood the human condition and the requirements of government far better.

He wanted to found an empire with Washington as emperor.  He supported the ideas of Burr and Wilkeson.  He was almost a true traitor.

Quoted: Quoted: Hamilton was more important to the course our nation took than was Jefferson. Jefferson could turn a better phrase, but Hamilton understood the human condition and the requirements of government far better. He wanted to found an empire with Washington as emperor.  He supported the ideas of Burr and Wilkeson.  He was almost a true traitor.

Huh? Burr KILLED Hamilton in a duel because they detested each other. Did you study history off the back of a cereal box?

Quoted: Quoted: he's a founding father, and one of the greatest up there with the three you mentioned I'm not saying that he's not (that's the purpose of this thread), but how can one put people into the same category that were working almost completely opposed to one another?

Hamilton is the founder most directly responsible for the form of government we have today.   After his death, even his opponents adopted his views on things like

national bank
implied powers
national economic system with public investment in private enterprise
standing army and navy
anti-slavery

anyone who thinks he isn't one of the greatest founding fathers is foolish.  Like any of the founding fathers, he wasn't perfect.  You can tear down any FF if you subject them to enough scrutiny.

Would I have wanted him to set up the government completely on his own?  No.   Am I glad we are using his vision for the way we run our economic house?  yes  Am I glad his opponents pushed through the Bill of Rights? hell yes.

Our system is great because it is a compromise between people of differing viewpoints.  I would say he was one of the top 5 or 6 most important people in the birth of our nation.  

Quoted: Hamilton is the founder most directly responsible for the form of government we have today.   After his death, even his opponents adopted his views on things like national bank implied powers national economic system with public investment in private enterprise standing army and navy anti-slavery anyone who thinks he isn't one of the greatest founding fathers is foolish.  Like any of the founding fathers, he wasn't perfect.  You can tear down any FF if you subject them to enough scrutiny. Would I have wanted him to set up the government completely on his own?  No.   Am I glad we are using his vision for the way we run our economic house?  yes  Am I glad his opponents pushed through the Bill of Rights? hell yes. Our system is great because it is a compromise between people of differing viewpoints.  I would say he was one of the top 5 or 6 most important people in the birth of our nation.

That's kinda why I brought the subject up -- wanted some others opinions and POVs on him to consider.

/quote]


I'm not saying that he's not (that's the purpose of this thread), but how can one put people into the same category that were working almost completely opposed to one another?

Hamilton is the founder most directly responsible for the form of government we have today.   After his death, even his opponents adopted his views on things like

national bankimplied powers
national economic system with public investment in private enterprise
standing army and navy
anti-slavery

anyone who thinks he isn't one of the greatest founding fathers is foolish.  Like any of the founding fathers, he wasn't perfect.  You can tear down any FF if you subject them to enough scrutiny.

Would I have wanted him to set up the government completely on his own?  No.   Am I glad we are using his vision for the way we run our economic house?  yes  Am I glad his opponents pushed through the Bill of Rights? hell yes.

Our system is great because it is a compromise between people of differing viewpoints.  I would say he was one of the top 5 or 6 most important people in the birth of our nation.  

My reply to the above quote:
NATIONAL BANK?????.....Do you mean the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank of the United States which is the "greatest financial scam in history" according to the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" which documents the secret founding of this totally destructive organization.  The Federal Reserve creates money out of thin air by book entry and then lends it to the US government....We the people are then required to pay them hundreds of billions of dollars in interest on money they never had.  These are the richest men in the world...not Bill Gates. The Fed has financed the huge increase in Federal spending which has bankrupted this nation.....and they did it by lending money they simply created out of nothing!  I confronted Sen. Bob Dole about this and he said "What the Hell do you want me to do, take on the bankers?  We have been had! Investigate for yourself!

Quoted:   My reply to the above quote: NATIONAL BANK?????.....Do you mean the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank of the United States which is the "greatest financial scam in history" according to the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" which documents the secret founding of this totally destructive organization.  The Federal Reserve creates money out of thin air by book entry and then lends it to the US government....We the people are then required to pay them hundreds of billions of dollars in interest on money they never had.  These are the richest men in the world...not Bill Gates. The Fed has financed the huge increase in Federal spending which has bankrupted this nation.....and they did it by lending money they simply created out of nothing!  I confronted Sen. Bob Dole about this and he said "What the Hell do you want me to do, take on the bankers?  We have been had! Investigate for yourself!

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't the the national bank that Hamilton made is the same as the Federal Reserve.

HAMILTON SHOT FIRST!!!

Quoted: HAMILTON SHOT FIRST!!!

And missed.

If you love Hillary then you'll adore Hamilton.

Read all of the Anti-federalists papers before you jump to any conclusions about Hamilton.

Biggest question of all:

Do you know who George Mason was? and Why He is important?

Quoted: I'm not 100% sure, but I don't the the national bank that Hamilton made is the same as the Federal Reserve.

its not the same bank, but it is a spiritual descendant.  The existence of a national banking system was crucial to our becoming a world power.  

the book he mentioned is a conspiracy theory about the Fed, which came into being in 1913.

Quoted: Biggest question of all: Do you know who George Mason was? and Why He is important?

He was the greatest who ever lived. AH wasn't even a pimple upon his arse.

Quoted: Biggest question of all: Do you know who George Mason was? and Why He is important?

you can thank him for the Bill of Rights, he refused to sign the Constitution because it didn't include one.

Quoted: If you love Hillary then you'll adore Hamilton. Read all of the Anti-federalists papers before you jump to any conclusions about Hamilton.

That is perhaps the dumbest statement I have ever read on ARFCOM, and that takes some doing.

Quoted: Quoted: If you love Hillary then you'll adore Hamilton. Read all of the Anti-federalists papers before you jump to any conclusions about Hamilton. That is perhaps the dumbest statement I have ever read on ARFCOM, and that takes some doing.

now now, the dumbest statements on arfcom are in 2 other types of threads

1) southern revisionist threads
2) evolution/age of earth threads

this is about par for GD

Hamilton and Hitlary are two very differnet people.  

Hamilton had his faults, but who didnt?