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Posted: 12/31/2002 8:44:17 AM EDT
A lot of you guys have asked where you can find this stuff and it’s been scarce for a few years now.

Wideners has 1,200rd cases for $ 149.00

[url]http://www.wideners.com/shopping/cart.asp?Action=Details&item=SMA9SUB[/url] [:D]

Happy New Year!

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:54:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:56:12 AM EDT
SOG is selling it too
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:56:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:21:18 AM EDT
The Keltech SUB-2000 is rated for +P+ ammo.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:31:06 AM EDT
Thanks for the heads-up. I think I'll order a couple of cases.

Since I've been hitting the indoor range in the cold weather I've been shooting mainly my uzi, 9mm AR, and Calico rifles. It's easy to burn through a lot of 32 round mags and the Calico 100 round mags.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:38:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 9:57:11 AM EDT by THISISME]
This stuff has been so scarce the last couple of years I was treating my last few cases like they where made of gold.

Not any more.


Got some? [:D]

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:39:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 9:39:57 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:42:24 AM EDT
Gloftoe, Yes AR15’s love this stuff. My colt lightweight match shoots one ragged hole at 100 yards with this stuff.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:44:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 9:52:01 AM EDT by Confederate]
Originally Posted By W-W:
SOG is selling it too
View Quote
The stuff they are selling at SOG is the Danish ammo, but they are selling the Hirtenberger +P+ at J&G Sales for a pretty good price, 1000 rounds for 109.90 plus shipping, this is [size=4]L7A1[/size=4].
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 10:02:21 AM EDT
Confederate, That’s the same stuff. I couldn’t tell if it came in A sealed military can with shipping included though.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 2:39:05 PM EDT

For the after noon crew.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 2:46:29 PM EDT
So, will this stuff speed up the cyclic rate of a subgun?
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 2:59:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 3:00:57 PM EDT by THISISME]
Ponyboy, This is sub-gun ammo but should not be used in most sub-guns.

It’s good in MP40's and other heavy barrel open bolt sub-guns like the Sterling. NOT good in MP5's, and probably M11/9's due to it's high pressure.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 4:26:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 4:40:21 PM EDT
HiramRanger, Unless you specifically ordered yours from the factory with a weaker recoil spring it is meant to handle this kind of ammo.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 4:43:52 PM EDT
HiramRanger, You want proof?


You got it.

Link Posted: 12/31/2002 5:01:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 1:15:58 AM EDT
Question for the handgun experts, I'm more of a rifle guy than a pistol guy. Isn't this stuff OK in robust pistols, like Glocks and Sigs? I saw a figure of 1300fps given for the Hirt +P+ 124gr somewhere - is that figure out of a subgun barrel? Because if so, I can't see this round generating as much, or perhaps at most about the same, pressure as the Cor-Bon "+P" 115gr, which CorBon claims gets 1350fps, presumably out of a 4 or 5" test barrel.

Granted, CorBon's idea of "+P" seems like Winchester etc idea of +P+, but it has always worked finet for me in Glocks, P226 and High Powers.  

Thoughts? Is there something I'm missing here, did they use an unusual powder that generates significantly higher pressure, or something like that?

Some people are unfortunately limited to FMJ for legal reasons, and $0.11 a round for quality ammunition with more oomph on target sounds nice. Your opinions and expertise would be appreciated :)
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 2:13:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2003 8:40:39 AM EDT by THISISME]
Maelcum, Heres the scoop.

Hirtenberger 124gr High Pressure subgun ammo was designed for use with open bolt subguns short barreled subguns under arctic conditions. The 1,250fps is from an open bolt subgun under arctic conditions.

Yes it’s a specialty round.

Your average 9mm round shot out of an open bolt subgun is much slower than you would think and is much more like a .380. Also you get much slower velocities under subzero conditions than you do at temps that are average for the rest of North America.

There was a review of this ammo in one of the gun magazines a couple years ago and velocities where above 1,250fps from a glock17 and the author said he had no malfunctions of any kind and he felt Glocks could handle this ammo.

I posted a heads up on this ammo at subguns.com and heard both good and bad about this round in machineguns. There where reports of KB’s during full auto fire and of pins shearing and the bolt striking shooters and causing serious injury. A respected class II manufacturer said that it was fine for some subguns and that he uses this ammo in them and not in others and he gave the information on this ammo.

This ammo is loaded very hot and should not be used in pistols or rifles that are not rated for +P ammo and some will need plus power recoil springs like my Marlin Camp carbine with an after market wolf 16.5lbs recoil spring (factory is 11.5lbs) to keep it from bashing itself to death.

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