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Posted: 1/18/2015 7:19:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 7:27:39 AM EST by cavedog]
TAMPA — The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office is stretched a little thin these days.

One of the largest sheriff’s offices in the country, HCSO is short 208 deputies, officials said. There are another 170 openings for detention deputies to work in the county’s jails.

"It’s something that we’re concerned about,” said Richard Lozada, the agency’s recruitment and screening manager.

For the first time in several years, officials said, the agency is accepting applications from pre-certified law enforcement officers from other agencies who can bypass the six-month academy training for new deputies. That’s a big policy change for HCSO, which up until recently has preferred to train its recruits on its own.

"This is a way for us to get officers out there on the road a little bit quicker,” Lozada said.

Like many law enforcement agencies across Tampa Bay and the country, the sheriff’s office is facing a staffing crisis in the face of a large exodus as baby boomer officers and deputies reach retirement age.

...

HCSO may not offer the highest salary of all the law enforcement agencies in Florida, but it does offer competitive benefits, McKinnon said.

"I think once you look at the entire package, we’re certainly if not better than we’re equal to most agencies anywhere around,” he said.




http://tbo.com/news/crime/hillsborough-in-need-of-deputies-as-baby-boomers-retire-20150117/?page=1


Link to HCSO employment page.

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/Careers/SubPages/Career-Opportunities/Law-Enforcement-Deputy.aspx

"The training consists of a two week Sheriff's Orientation Training (S.O.T.), a six month academy and 8 to 10 weeks of module training. The Sheriff's Office will provide all books, materials, and uniforms (excluding footwear). Those selected for hire will receive $17.23 per hour (40 hour work week) and full benefits during this training period. After this training is completed the recruit is sworn in and their salary increases to $44,881.20 per year as a certified law enforcement deputy."



Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:25:45 AM EST
Nope.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:30:46 AM EST
Short 208 deputies!!??
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:31:24 AM EST
Too many unqualified candidates?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:32:26 AM EST
FPNI.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:32:37 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FiveSolas76:
Too many unqualified candidates?
View Quote

That's usually the case.
Lots of people take a test but don't qualify for employment.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:33:33 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RDak:
Short 208 deputies!!??
View Quote

HCSO has about 1200 deputies.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:34:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cavedog:

HCSO has about 1200 deputies.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cavedog:
Originally Posted By RDak:
Short 208 deputies!!??

HCSO has about 1200 deputies.

Oh, I didn't realize it was that large an area.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:39:49 AM EST
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:50:37 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.
View Quote

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:54:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By cavedog:
TAMPA — The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office is stretched a little thin these days.

One of the largest sheriff’s offices in the country, HCSO is short 208 deputies, officials said. There are another 170 openings for detention deputies to work in the county’s jails.


"It’s something that we’re concerned about,” said Richard Lozada, the agency’s recruitment and screening manager.


For the first time in several years, officials said, the agency is accepting applications from pre-certified law enforcement officers from other agencies who can bypass the six-month academy training for new deputies. That’s a big policy change for HCSO, which up until recently has preferred to train its recruits on its own.


"This is a way for us to get officers out there on the road a little bit quicker,” Lozada said.


Like many law enforcement agencies across Tampa Bay and the country, the sheriff’s office is facing a staffing crisis in the face of a large exodus as baby boomer officers and deputies reach retirement age.

...

HCSO may not offer the highest salary of all the law enforcement agencies in Florida, but it does offer competitive benefits, McKinnon said.

"I think once you look at the entire package, we’re certainly if not better than we’re equal to most agencies anywhere around,” he said.





http://tbo.com/news/crime/hillsborough-in-need-of-deputies-as-baby-boomers-retire-20150117/?page=1


Link to HCSO employment page.

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/Careers/SubPages/Career-Opportunities/Law-Enforcement-Deputy.aspx

"The training consists of a two week Sheriff's Orientation Training (S.O.T.), a six month academy and 8 to 10 weeks of module training. The Sheriff's Office will provide all books, materials, and uniforms (excluding footwear). Those selected for hire will receive $17.23 per hour (40 hour work week) and full benefits during this training period. After this training is completed the recruit is sworn in and their salary increases to $44,881.20 per year as a certified law enforcement deputy."



View Quote


Mandating their own specific academy, followed by a minimum of two years of service to the agency, has got to hurt their applicant pool.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:57:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WesJanson:


Mandating their own specific academy, followed by a minimum of two years of service to the agency, has got to hurt their applicant pool.
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Originally Posted By WesJanson:
Originally Posted By cavedog:
TAMPA — The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office is stretched a little thin these days.

One of the largest sheriff’s offices in the country, HCSO is short 208 deputies, officials said. There are another 170 openings for detention deputies to work in the county’s jails.


"It’s something that we’re concerned about,” said Richard Lozada, the agency’s recruitment and screening manager.


For the first time in several years, officials said, the agency is accepting applications from pre-certified law enforcement officers from other agencies who can bypass the six-month academy training for new deputies. That’s a big policy change for HCSO, which up until recently has preferred to train its recruits on its own.


"This is a way for us to get officers out there on the road a little bit quicker,” Lozada said.


Like many law enforcement agencies across Tampa Bay and the country, the sheriff’s office is facing a staffing crisis in the face of a large exodus as baby boomer officers and deputies reach retirement age.

...

HCSO may not offer the highest salary of all the law enforcement agencies in Florida, but it does offer competitive benefits, McKinnon said.

"I think once you look at the entire package, we’re certainly if not better than we’re equal to most agencies anywhere around,” he said.





http://tbo.com/news/crime/hillsborough-in-need-of-deputies-as-baby-boomers-retire-20150117/?page=1


Link to HCSO employment page.

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/Careers/SubPages/Career-Opportunities/Law-Enforcement-Deputy.aspx

"The training consists of a two week Sheriff's Orientation Training (S.O.T.), a six month academy and 8 to 10 weeks of module training. The Sheriff's Office will provide all books, materials, and uniforms (excluding footwear). Those selected for hire will receive $17.23 per hour (40 hour work week) and full benefits during this training period. After this training is completed the recruit is sworn in and their salary increases to $44,881.20 per year as a certified law enforcement deputy."





Mandating their own specific academy, followed by a minimum of two years of service to the agency, has got to hurt their applicant pool.

The article stated that they will be waiving the internal academy requirement. Evidently they need a webmaster also.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:07:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:12:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.
View Quote

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:19:13 AM EST
That's one of the areas we are looking at after I'm done with the Army. Still got 9 1/2 years to go.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:21:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.



Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:22:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc


Shhhh. Just look at the shiny.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:23:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 8:24:02 AM EST by Steve_T_M]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc

You know .... just remake the societal fabric. Cops do that, right?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:26:22 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:

You know .... just remake the societal fabric. Cops do that, right?
View Quote

No, we're the guys who show up with the super glue, gorilla tape and shoe goop and are expected to solve in 20 minutes the 20 year problems that the involved parties have allowed to fester and wont fix on their own without prompting from the legal system.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:27:39 AM EST
I used to do a lot of work in Hillsborough County working mostly at night. The nature of my job meant that I had contact with HCSO Deputies sometimes. A damn good bunch of folks. Good people. No complaints here.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:28:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 8:29:28 AM EST by scarecrow31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.



Twenty dollar words, a nickel's worth of sense
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:30:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc



Give them libertah and a ron Paul for president button!!!



Gr
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:33:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:


Shhhh. Just look at the shiny.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc


Shhhh. Just look at the shiny.


Very shiny indeed.

See it? See it?. Now go fetch!

I've seen the reformation of the ill-minded of society. It is a miraculous thing to behold.

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:34:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

No, we're the guys who show up with the super glue, gorilla tape and shoe goop and are expected to solve in 20 minutes the 20 year problems that the involved parties have allowed to fester and wont fix on their own without prompting from the legal system.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:

You know .... just remake the societal fabric. Cops do that, right?

No, we're the guys who show up with the super glue, gorilla tape and shoe goop and are expected to solve in 20 minutes the 20 year problems that the involved parties have allowed to fester and wont fix on their own without prompting from the legal system.


Getting warmer!
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:36:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

.................................

Very shiny indeed.

See it? See it?. Now go fetch!

I've seen the reformation of the ill-minded of society. It is a miraculous thing to behold.

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?
View Quote

What makes you think it was maintained?

I'm an old guy and from my anecdotal experience there was far more widespread violent crimes percentage wise when I was young than now IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:37:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:


Very shiny indeed.

See it? See it?. Now go fetch!

I've seen the reformation of the ill-minded of society. It is a miraculous thing to behold.

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.

You aren't offering any suggestions.
You're simply posting verbiage that actually offers no solutions
What would you do with the thieves rapists drug dealers, habitual criminals etc


Shhhh. Just look at the shiny.


Very shiny indeed.

See it? See it?. Now go fetch!

I've seen the reformation of the ill-minded of society. It is a miraculous thing to behold.

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?


Oh, my.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:38:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RDak:

What makes you think it was maintained?

I'm an old guy and from my anecdotal experience there was far more widespread violent crimes percentage wise when I was young than now IMHO.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

.................................

Very shiny indeed.

See it? See it?. Now go fetch!

I've seen the reformation of the ill-minded of society. It is a miraculous thing to behold.

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?

What makes you think it was maintained?

I'm an old guy and from my anecdotal experience there was far more widespread violent crimes percentage wise when I was young than now IMHO.



You obviously missed all those episodes of andy griffeth!


Gr
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:39:50 AM EST
I read about it this morning, will be interesting to see if they can fill these positions and who they get.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:41:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?
View Quote

For starters, you're talking about a colonial society with low population density
Most people lived and died within a 20 mile radius.
There simply weren't the opportunities to engage in habitual criminal activities and if someone did, the locals took care of their own problems
The Puritans, for instance, strongly enforced a societal model where you were expected to live around the green so the rest of the population could watch over you and keep you on the moral and legal straight and narrow path. Societal shaming through a variety of means too many to sit here and list
If you want to go outside of American culture they used to lock you up for a whole lot less than what we do now. Ever hear of debtors prison?
When's the last time you saw anyone in the US locked up because you were from outside the local town and you had no cash in your pocket. That wasn't unusual 80 years ago

You still aren't offering any suggestions, you're pointing at the past and claiming things were done differently.
To a certain extent they were, because society faced a different set of issues and they had different resources.

But lets stay in the here and now. if you aren't happy locking up criminals, what is your solution.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:42:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By scarecrow31:



Twenty dollar words, a nickel's worth of sense
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By scarecrow31:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.



Twenty dollar words, a nickel's worth of sense


You're too kind. No, really. I usually shoot for $10 words.

So how many more cops do you think need to be hired to "Fix" everyone?

How many prisons n the d to be built to house everyone, eventually including yourself, to separate them from you or you from them?

How many more politicians to prop themselves up as saviors of those defunct by their own devices?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:47:17 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

You're too kind. No, really. I usually shoot for $10 words.

So how many more cops do you think need to be hired to "Fix" everyone?

How many prisons n the d to be built to house everyone, eventually including yourself, to separate them from you or you from them?

How many more politicians to prop themselves up as saviors of those defunct by their own devices?
View Quote


Simply asking more questions doesn't make one inquisitive. Are you going somewhere with this, or just throwing rhetoric about?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:47:31 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.


Let me translate, "just shoot the fuckers."

Cuts down on recidivism.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:47:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dmfl54:
I read about it this morning, will be interesting to see if they can fill these positions and who they get.
View Quote


I wonder if they'll need to speak Spanish.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:51:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:51:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MultipleFractures:

Let me translate, "just shoot the fuckers."

Cuts down on recidivism.
View Quote

Expansion of the death penalty is not likely in the current political climate
Try harder
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:52:17 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fury_58:


I wonder if they'll need to speak Spanish.
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Originally Posted By Fury_58:
Originally Posted By dmfl54:
I read about it this morning, will be interesting to see if they can fill these positions and who they get.


I wonder if they'll need to speak Spanish.

It would be a big plus.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:54:40 AM EST
Sounds like they have to many laws that need to be enforced.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:55:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

For starters, you're talking about a colonial society with low population density
Most people lived and died within a 20 mile radius.
There simply weren't the opportunities to engage in habitual criminal activities and if someone did, the locals took care of their own problems
The Puritans, for instance, strongly enforced a societal model where you were expected to live around the green so the rest of the population could watch over you and keep you on the moral and legal straight and narrow path. Societal shaming through a variety of means too many to sit here and list
If you want to go outside of American culture they used to lock you up for a whole lot less than what we do now. Ever hear of debtors prison?
When's the last time you saw anyone in the US locked up because you were from outside the local town and you had no cash in your pocket. That wasn't unusual 80 years ago

You still aren't offering any suggestions, you're pointing at the past and claiming things were done differently.
To a certain extent they were, because society faced a different set of issues and they had different resources.

But lets stay in the here and now. if you aren't happy locking up criminals, what is your solution.
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

That being said, how was the peace maintained prior to this unending cycle of incarceration & increasingly inflating system that perpetrates its own growth?

For starters, you're talking about a colonial society with low population density
Most people lived and died within a 20 mile radius.
There simply weren't the opportunities to engage in habitual criminal activities and if someone did, the locals took care of their own problems
The Puritans, for instance, strongly enforced a societal model where you were expected to live around the green so the rest of the population could watch over you and keep you on the moral and legal straight and narrow path. Societal shaming through a variety of means too many to sit here and list
If you want to go outside of American culture they used to lock you up for a whole lot less than what we do now. Ever hear of debtors prison?
When's the last time you saw anyone in the US locked up because you were from outside the local town and you had no cash in your pocket. That wasn't unusual 80 years ago

You still aren't offering any suggestions, you're pointing at the past and claiming things were done differently.
To a certain extent they were, because society faced a different set of issues and they had different resources.

But lets stay in the here and now. if you aren't happy locking up criminals, what is your solution.


You have to come to it yourself, I can't make you understand. All I can do is offer alternate thoughts that challenge the fore mentioned paradigm.

The deeper the hole you dig, the harder it is to get yourself out; societally speaking,

History has proven: Make laws, make transgressions, & transgressors, of the law.

The origin of resolution is in the understanding & application of wisdom that no one can be sanctified by laws conjured & appropriated by man.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:57:02 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe:
Sounds like they have to many laws that need to be enforced.
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Or too many people


Gr
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:57:15 AM EST
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Originally Posted By MultipleFractures:


Let me translate, "just shoot the fuckers."

Cuts down on recidivism.
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Originally Posted By MultipleFractures:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:
How about this; Fundamentally alter the LEO/Criminal paradigm so as to negate the need for this type of bloated & paradoxically unattainable system of "confinement & rehabilitation".

Just sayin.

Whats your suggestions?
They're doing the ATI stuff heavily here and as far as I am concerned it's the wrong direction to take the criminal justice system.


Incarceration only works on the reformable of mind: let's start there.

Degradation of the peaceful societal fabric can not be solved by further criminalization of criminals: At some point the fault of a serendipitous system of blind Logic will need to be dealt with lest the fabric be torn away completely.

Proper recourse exists outside of our current execution of behavioral modification.

It is excruciatingly obvious, however, dynamically rejected by a large number of constituency.


Let me translate, "just shoot the fuckers."

Cuts down on recidivism.


Certainly an option under our system, is it not? Even if under given circumstances.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:57:28 AM EST
Years ago FHP paid very low wages but the troopers made a lot of money on off-duty assignments. Hard way to earn a living to raise a family.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:57:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

You have to come to it yourself, I can't make you understand. All I can do is offer alternate thoughts that challenge the fore mentioned paradigm.

The deeper the hole you dig, the harder it is to get yourself out; societally speaking,

History has proven: Make laws, make transgressions, & transgressors, of the law.

The origin of resolution is in the understanding & application of wisdom that no one can be sanctified by laws conjured & appropriated by man.
View Quote

Translation:: you're wasting our time because you have no suggestions, just complaints
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:58:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Expansion of the death penalty is not likely in the current political climate
Try harder
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By MultipleFractures:

Let me translate, "just shoot the fuckers."

Cuts down on recidivism.

Expansion of the death penalty is not likely in the current political climate
Try harder


I'm not talking about the "legal system" or the cops. I am talking about citizens solving their own problems when lethal force is justified.

You should stop thinking in such small circles.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:59:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe:
Sounds like they have to many laws that need to be enforced.
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Hold the phone: We have a live one on the line!
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:00:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By MultipleFractures:

I'm not talking about the "legal system" or the cops. I am talking about citizens solving their own problems when lethal force is justified.

You should stop thinking in such small circles.
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Even that is defined and dictated by the laws.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:00:53 AM EST
1.3 million people live there

1200 deputies

That's one deputy for every thousand people



Gr

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:01:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RictusGrin:


Simply asking more questions doesn't make one inquisitive. Are you going somewhere with this, or just throwing rhetoric about?
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Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

You're too kind. No, really. I usually shoot for $10 words.

So how many more cops do you think need to be hired to "Fix" everyone?

How many prisons n the d to be built to house everyone, eventually including yourself, to separate them from you or you from them?

How many more politicians to prop themselves up as saviors of those defunct by their own devices?


Simply asking more questions doesn't make one inquisitive. Are you going somewhere with this, or just throwing rhetoric about?



And while Mr. Inquisitive is causing a paradigm shift in societal norms to realign the criminal justice dynamic HCSD still needs 200 officers......
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:02:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By greenranger:
1.3 million people live there

1200 deputies

That's one deputy for every thousand people
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How many of the 1.3 live in incorporated areas that have their own PDs
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:04:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 9:04:37 AM EST by greenranger]
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:

How many of the 1.3 live in incorporated areas that have their own PDs
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By greenranger:
1.3 million people live there

1200 deputies

That's one deputy for every thousand people

How many of the 1.3 live in incorporated areas that have their own PDs

How many of the Pds run the county jail and serve civil papers?


Gr
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:04:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Translation:: you're wasting our time because you have no suggestions, just complaints
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By gtfoxy:

You have to come to it yourself, I can't make you understand. All I can do is offer alternate thoughts that challenge the fore mentioned paradigm.

The deeper the hole you dig, the harder it is to get yourself out; societally speaking,

History has proven: Make laws, make transgressions, & transgressors, of the law.

The origin of resolution is in the understanding & application of wisdom that no one can be sanctified by laws conjured & appropriated by man.

Translation:: you're wasting our time because you have no suggestions, just complaints


Where have I complained? I certainly never intended to do so.

I have simply offered observations based on reality. A reality that hinges on insanity: Doing the same things over & over while expecting a different outcome is insanity, or so theorized Einstein.

Complaining doesn't help.

I am simply pointing out the inherent insanity in which society is engaging.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:06:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By greenranger:

Or too many people


Gr
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Originally Posted By greenranger:
Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe:
Sounds like they have to many laws that need to be enforced.

Or too many people


Gr




Yep, about 3.5 million in this Tampa Bay region.
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