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Posted: 10/25/2016 1:56:23 PM EDT

Hillary Clinton’s Trouble With the Second Amendment

She says she supports gun rights, but her actions and statements suggest otherwise

Hillary Clinton starts every response when asked about gun rights the same way: She supports it, but…

Those “buts” are really adding up, and causing her to make some pretty outrageous statements. At last Wednesday’s debate, Clinton had another one of these moments, when she defended her criticism of the District of Columba v Heller case that was decided by the Supreme Court in 2007. Clinton claimed the D.C. gun ban, which eventually led to the Heller case, was meant to keep toddlers from getting guns.

“You mentioned the Heller decision, and what I was saying that you reference, Chris, was that I disagreed with the way the court applied the Second Amendment in that case. Because what the District of Columbia was trying to do was protect toddlers from guns,” Clinton said at the debate. “They wanted people with guns to safely store them, and the court didn’t accept that reasonable regulation, but they’ve accepted many other.”

She added: “I see no conflict between saving people’s lives and defending the Second Amendment.”

Clinton was immediately knocked by the NRA and right-leaning media for her claim. The Washington Free Beacon’s Stephen Gutowski called Clinton’s claim “bizarre” and noted that the Heller decision had nothing to do with toddlers and guns and was instead about an individual’s right to keep a firearm for their own protection. Gutowski quoted the opening line of the majority opinion in Heller: “District of Columbia law bans handgun possession by making it a crime to carry an unregistered firearm and prohibiting the registration of handguns.” Nothing about children or toddlers or safe storage.

The Federalist’s Sean Davis also took Clinton to task for her claim, and provided more of a summary on the Heller case. Heller was about 66-year-old police officer Anthony Heller wanting to own and bear a firearm in his own home in order to defend his family.

See, the D.C. gun ban required people who were actually able to get a lawfully owned firearm to keep it “unloaded and dissembled or bound by a trigger lock or similar device.” This meant that even for the small number of people who could actually keep a gun in the district, it would be useless for self defense as they would have to spend time loading or assembling the gun or dealing with the trigger lock to make it work.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that D.C.’s ban was unconstitutional. Davis wrote that the word “toddler” doesn’t appear in the majority or dissenting opinions or in the 110-page transcript of oral arguments.

But Politifact rated Clinton’s claim as “Half True,” because of course. Clinton’s a Democrat and gets special treatment from the “fact” checking website.

I will note that when Clinton said D.C. was trying to protect toddlers, I believe she was referring to the ban itself and not the Heller case. Politifact found a single petition from the D.C. city government that mentioned children (not specifically toddlers) as part of the reason for the ban.

“The smaller the weapon, the more likely a child can use it, and children as young as three years old are strong enough to fire today’s handguns,” the petition said. The petition mentioned the word “child” or “children” seven times, and also at one point mentioned the “chilling regularity with which handguns were taking the lives of children.”

But Clinton was wrong when she said D.C. was “trying to protect toddlers from guns” with the gun ban. That might have been one justification for the ban —the idea that parents were improperly storing guns, allowing children to get ahold of them and accidentally harm themselves or others—but it was not the main one, nor was it even half the justification. The initial stated purpose for the band was “to protect the citizens of the District from loss of property, death and injury, by controlling the availability of firearms in the community.” Children were specifically mentioned.

Clinton had previously said the “Supreme Court is wrong on the Second Amendment,” apparently referring to Heller. At that time she did not mention children, she was just pledging to “go after” the National Rifle Association.

A Clinton spokesperson in May 2016 also referred to the D.C. gun ban as a “safe storage law,” which is the spin way to describe a law that banned nearly all guns because the city thought fewer guns would mean less crime.

Clinton was absolutely wrong in her characterization of Heller and the gun ban. A “half true” rating was generous. Politifact had previously found claims that violent crime skyrocketed after the ban to be “half true,” as well, noting that violent crime in D.C. looked like “a rockin’ roller coaster” after the ban was instituted. Crime reach it’s peak in the District in 1993, but then dropped along with crime across the country – the 1975 gun ban couldn’t have suddenly caused the drop. Politifact ruled the changes were more due to social and demographic factors.

It should also be noted that the D.C. gun ban didn’t prevent toddler deaths. Immediately before and after the ban was adopted, between 1974 and 1979, just five people (total, not just children) were killed by guns in home or occupational accidents. The four years before the ban was struck down by the Supreme Court, 100 children were killed by guns –and only one was due to an accident.

In an attempt to help Clinton, the Brady Campaign tried to claim 2,600 “kids and teens” are killed each year by guns, but the group includes some adult deaths in its calculations.

This whole Heller/toddler situation is not Clinton’s first problem with the Second Amendment. In October 2015, Clinton was asked about Australia’s gun “buyback” program and whether it could be instituted in America. Clinton responded by incorrectly categorizing the Australia program as a “buyback” program, praising states that had instituted their own buyback programs, and closed by saying:

“I don’t know enough details to tell you how we would do it or how it would work. But certainly, the Australian example is worth considering.”

Those “details” Clinton claims to not know (even though they have been pointed out to Democrats for years) are that Australia’s buyback program was not voluntary; it was confiscation. Australia banned certain types of firearms, and offered to buy them from gun owners, but after a certain amount of time, people who legally purchased a firearm would be considered criminals if they didn’t hand in their gun. That’s confiscation, and Clinton endorsed it.

Naturally, when the NRA pointed this out, Politifact gave them a “mostly false” rating.

Finally, it was made clear from the illegally obtained Wikileaks emails that Team Clinton was worried about her extreme position on guns. In one email chain, D.C. lawyer and one of Clinton’s debate prep strategists, Karen Dunn, said that Clinton “has been more forceful on guns/gun lobby than any other person who ever seriously ran for president.”

She added that was not necessarily a good thing, as Clinton told her “certain members of the dem caucus were freaking out about” her stance.

Clinton can claim all she wants that she supports the Second Amendment, but anyone who believes in gun rights should be skeptical.
View Quote


Read more at: Observer.com
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 1:59:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I thought she supported the 2nd amendment?  She said so.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:00:32 PM EDT
[#2]
TL:DR version is, she's a lying cunt.

That's so much easier to say instead of a wall of text
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#3]
TLDR; FHRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:01:39 PM EDT
[#4]
The problem she has with the 2nd is that it's the counter to her twisted power hungry geriatric self.

It can take everything she believes in and has worked her life for in a short period of time.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#5]
"Clinton claimed the D.C. gun ban, which eventually led to the Heller case, was meant to keep toddlers from getting guns."


How can you argue with it if it's to save our children? (....... and it's even harder to argue with if you use the word 'toddler'.)

Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:10:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL:DR version is, she's a lying cunt.

That's so much easier to say instead of a wall of text
View Quote




this

And fuck Chris Wallace too for not calling her out on her bullshit.

I wish Trump had given her shit as well.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:10:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL:DR version is, she's a lying cunt.

That's so much easier to say instead of a wall of text
View Quote


This is why the USA is such a political shitshow.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:21:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:25:49 PM EDT
[#9]
In order to protect the second amendment, we need to ban all firearms from private ownership.  It is really the only way to ensure that right is not taken away in the future.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:05:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Too bad there aren't any child endangerment laws to cover that issue.

Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:05:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL:DR version is, she's a lying cunt.

That's so much easier to say instead of a wall of text
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:10:20 PM EDT
[#12]
A politician (lying cunt) would say anything to get elected?


SHOCKED I AM......
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:15:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I thought she supported the 2nd amendment?  She said so.
View Quote

She supports the 2nd amendment but...
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:15:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL:DR version is, she's a lying cunt.

That's so much easier to say instead of a wall of text
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL:DR version is, she's a lying cunt.

That's so much easier to say instead of a wall of text




Quoted:
TLDR; FHRC


Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:11:47 PM EDT
[#15]
You'd have to be window licking stupid to think that Hillary had the slightest respect for the 2nd amendment whatsoever.  If she displayed the same inclinations towards the 13th amendment, every black person in the country would be afraid they were going to wind up on a plantation somewhere.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:12:46 PM EDT
[#16]
"Suggest" otherwise???

Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:15:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I thought she supported the 2nd amendment?  She said so.
View Quote


She is following the classic line of "divide and conquer" the Democrats have been using for years.

She wants people to think the 2A is all about duck hunting, and get the Fudds to throw home defenders, CCWers, collectors, EBR enthusiasts, NFA people, etc, under the bus, as long as their precious "duck hunting" isn't interfered with.

And the hell of it is, there are a shitload of stupid fucking Fudds who will go along with it (may they all burn in Hell).
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:19:36 PM EDT
[#18]


She's afraid of the 2nd Amendment because it's protection against tyrants like her.






Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:21:34 PM EDT
[#19]
I was told by a liberal the other day that Hillary is pro-2nd amendment. She just believes in closing the gun show loophole and getting rid of military style assault weapons. No one needs more than 7 rounds.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:24:30 PM EDT
[#20]
She'd appoint a judge to SCOTUS If she won and then blame SCOTUS afterward.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:27:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was told by a liberal the other day that Hillary is pro-2nd amendment. She just believes in closing the gun show loophole and getting rid of military style assault weapons. No one needs more than 7 rounds.
View Quote



It would have been nice if they had spent more than 3 minutes on it during the debate.

Fuckers should have called the cunt out on it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:28:35 PM EDT
[#22]

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."




~C. S. Lewis
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:29:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Here is our problem she said she wanted to go nationwide with de Blasio style gun control measures,  New York State has some of the strongest gun control laws in the country, and New York City has added additional regulations even more rigorous than State laws, she does that she won't have to bother messing with the second.

If we are lucky we will still have revolvers, shotguns, and single shot muskets.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:33:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:38:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Hillary has been very open about her hatred of the 2nd Amendment for about 30 fucking years.   She wants to use the Australian model of confiscating firearms if elected.

It's probably the only thing she's never lied about.  


FHRC!
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:40:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If this flies then I can argue that we need to ban: fire, water, electrical power, automobiles, bikes, and dogs as they ALL kill more toddlers a year than guns.
View Quote




Oh,they will get to all those things later down the line.............
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:45:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I thought she supported the 2nd amendment?  She said so.
View Quote


She does, but only her version of it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:45:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:02:44 PM EDT
[#29]
She is one of the many who disqualify any subsequent words by starting  with "I support the 2nd Amendment,  but.... "
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:08:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If this flies then I can argue that we need to ban: fire, water, electrical power, automobiles, bikes, and dogs as they ALL kill more toddlers a year than guns.
View Quote

Hard to argue when it's a one sided discussion.
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