

Posted: 3/10/2001 11:03:58 AM EDT
I woke up this morning at about 0830 to the sound of my Husky Sasha barking. I go to the window, and there's a van parked in my driveway, with a bunch of cops piling out of it, wearing balaclavas and flak jackets. I tell my girlfriend to hand me my pants, in case they want to talk to me (I currently have no weapons in the house, never have done drugs, and have no warrants for my arrest (that I know of), but I didn't want to be buck naked if the COPS camera shows up...)
BUT... They run to the house 2 doors down, and bust in the door with a ram. About 10 minutes later, they come out with the owner of the house in cuffs, and have an animal control officer take away 2 Staffordshire terriers (beautiful animals) that I've never seen outside, and a green Rubbermaid container, which appeared to hold some brick-like packages. I just moved in here about a month ago, and I haven't seen any police activity at all, but WOW. What a wake-up call. We're talking a white-bread country road, here, folks. NOT inner city. I just moved from the north side of Chicago, and never saw a SWAT raid, though I've been shot at a couple of times, there. Well, it just goes to show that anyplace can have its share of bad apples. This certainly did NOT appear to be a mistake, and with the terriers and the big tub of drugs, I think this type of raid was appropriate. I don't believe in all warrants being served as No-Knocks, but sometimes, they ARE called for. I want every cop to go home at the end of their shift, but still respect the rights of those ACCUSED of a crime. No one got hurt, and those bricks of whatever won't be hitting the street, or the apartment complex 1/4 mile down the road. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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To borrow a line from the gun control crowd, if it will save just one innocent life, we should do away with no-knock warrants.
Being a citizen in a free country presents certain dangers, but danger delivered by the hands of the police is NOT supposed to be on the list of risks we need face to remain free. Being a cop is a dangerous job, and no recruit goes into law enforcemnt thinking otherwise. Let those who choose to voluntarily enter such a profession face the risks. Their lives are no more valuable than mine, and less valuable than my freedom. |
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These raids will escalate and in the near future warrants will be served for siezure of "brick-like packages" which will not be illegal drugs, but illegal military ammunition battle packs.
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Guys, I'm with you on not using No-Knock warrants on every bust. I would much prefer that if the Sheriff or prosecutor want to talk to me, to have someone knock on the door and tell me, rather than knock the door down.
As I stated, I want everyone's rights PROTECTED, and not just make it easy for the cops to come in and destroy/sieze your property, but if they announce themselves and give you a chance to respond BEFORE they knock in the door, I'd be more inclined to allow these "dynamic entry" warrant services. I do want every cop to go back home with the same number of holes in him with which he started the shift. I didn't see any weapons confiscated, and it would have been a little tough to flush that much junk in 10 seconds, but the dogs were DEFINITELY not on the friendly side. They were beautiful, but STRONG. The female Animal Control officer really had her hands full. The wife of the arrestee was cooperating with the cops, and helped calm the pups down, but if she hadn't, we'd probably be short 2 beautiful Staffordshire terriers. I sure wouldn't have wanted to have my weapon in my holster had I been going up to that house. I wouldn't have found it necessary to have a balaclava over my face, though. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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Their HIGH RISK WARRANT jobs will get higher in the risk department when the people tire of their GESTAPO TACTICS! They push, then push some more, until one day all hell breaks loose, then so much for a peaceful nation!
THEY ARE OUT OF CONTROL, AND NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE! |
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this was posted on the firing line forums by a member named HankB
- If you're really worried about this, it seems the *first* line of defense should be a really, really strong door. (Or maybe an outdoor motion sensor should be first?) I remember, a couple of decades ago, police took a news crew along on a warrant search. They yelled "POLICE" and almost immediately started pounding on the door with sledgehammers. And pounding. And pounding. After a bit, a small window on the door opened - just like an old speakeasy - and the resident said, "What you want?" Police demanded he open up - and he refused UNTIL THEY SHOWED HIM THE WARRANT, AND LET HIM READ IT THROUGH THE WINDOW, whereupon he DID comply. There was no contraband found in the house, but the door looked to be made of 2x6's on the inside, with reinforced metal straps. When asked - on camera - why the strong door, the resident said "It's a bad neighborhood." - good answer to no-knock, unbreakable door. |
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No, not really worried myself but the strong door, any strong door is a great idea!
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I would have asked the cops why didn't they arrest him on his way to or from work, or the grocery store and see what sort of answer they can come up with.
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Quoted: I would have asked the cops why didn't they arrest him on his way to or from work, or the grocery store and see what sort of answer they can come up with. View Quote i'd like the answer to this as well. Would have been much easier and safer in my opionion. Take him down in the parking lot at work where they can control the traffic and be on their terms. Much safer than kicking in a door at 3am. mike |
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Quoted: I would have asked the cops why didn't they arrest him on his way to or from work, or the grocery store and see what sort of answer they can come up with. View Quote It wouldn't be nearly as exciting or glamorous. Personally, I keep five 30 rounders loaded up, in case someone decides to "no knock" visit me at 3AM. |
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As a bail bondsman I can tell you that these "high risk" raids are usually pretty easy to avoid. The problem is that there is a little more work and time involved. Houses are very easy to watch and see who comes and goes. If the place is in an apartment complex the task becomes a little harder. But a fun and neat trick is to cut the power at night and wait until the people come out to look around. Works every time.
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You don't serve a warrant on a crack dealer at the shopping mall for several reasons. One might be that the majority of the drugs are at his house which doubles as a meth lab. Another one is that you don't want the possible shootout to go down with all kind of innocent bystanders caught in the cross fire. There is a difference between a search warrant and an arrest warrant. A search warrant is to seize property, an arrest warrant is to seize people. You guys are using the mistaken assumption that everyone is innocent, law-abiding and willing to come peacefully because they have nothing to hide. No-knock warrants are not given out for guys who forgot to pay a couple of parking tickets. They are given out for guys into serious felonies that likely aren't coming in peacefully if given the chance to resist.
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All persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and are afforded all of the immunities and protections enumerated in our Constitution.
If it takes a little extra time and energy to devise, or to wait for a way to apprehend someone, or search their premises in a polite, legal manner, then so be it. |
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sf46,
If you can't figure this out it will truely amaze me. You wait and see who is in the house and who isn't. Intelligence is your main asset. You wait until the person is out of his element and stop him. Then you can search his house and seize any evidence. If you know anything about human psychology you know that a person who is in a very familiar environment is much more dangerous than someone who is not. As far as getting into a shootout in a mall, if you did this you messed up pretty badly. The idea is you get them so quickly that they are confused and have no chance to build adrenaline into a fight. Give them no chance. Doing it in this fasion also lets you pick your time. If you know he goes down to the local 7-11 for some smokes every day you have someone waiting inside, someone outside around the corner, someone sitting in the passenger seat of a car and maybe someone on the pay phone outside. He gets out of his vehicle and goes to the door. Let him start opening the door and at that point he doesn't have a chance. As far as your mall analogy, you wouldn't get him inside a crouded mall. You let him go in while you pull the ignition wire off of his car or something similar like sticking something in his drivers side lock so his key doesn't work on that side. He goes around and gets in on the passenger side and then you nail him. Then you can go search to your hearts content at his house. |
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Quoted: All persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and are afforded all of the immunities and protections enumerated in our Constitution. If it takes a little extra time and energy to devise, or to wait for a way to apprehend someone, or search their premises in a polite, legal manner, then so be it. View Quote Not really. In the 80s things were changed so property associated with drugs could be siezed and YOU had to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. If you couldn't, you lost your property. It still is like this. I could not be more against this type of forfeiture clause. |
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Originally Posted By Wobblin Goblin: Not really. In the 80s things were changed so property associated with drugs could be siezed and YOU had to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. If you couldn't, you lost your property. It still is like this. I could not be more against this type of forfeiture clause. View Quote I was going to say that I was speaking hypothetically, but that would be speaking about a situation that may exist at some future period. But since I was speaking about a situation that's supposed to exist now, what would you call it? "supposetically" speaking? [:)] I know what they do these days, but their actions are directly opposed to what was guaranteed us in the Constitution. Trouble is, we put up with it. You're a nutmegger, what do you think of our "turn in your neighbor" law? I think it's ultimate in fascism! I have a nut case ex wife, who has gone to almost any length to screw me. When they passed that bill, I was sure that it's only a matter of time before she tells the police that she fears for her life, and they swear out a warrant to come and take my guns. Fortunately, she hasn't as yet, but I took the liberty of editorializing my feelings about this law in The Voice News, here in NW CT. I ended the piece by stating that any attempt to violate my rights, by coming to take my guns based on hearsay evidence will be met with equal or greater force, at the door. Try it at your own risk. I'm at a point where I'm not playing their fascist games anymore. [:)] |
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OK, fellas. I believe STRONGLY in the 4th amendment, as well as the other 9 in the Bill of Rights.
I do find it curious that there was a "necessity" for a no-knock warrant less than 100 feet from my front door. I am GLAD that no one got hurt, and after seeing the aftermath, that a connection was severed. I don't believe that anyone's rights should be violated, but I also believe that if you warehouse drugs 100 ft. from my house, you're lucky the police got to you first. If it's for your personal consumption, in the sanctity of your own home (SANCTITY chosen intentionally), then I have no say in the matter. BRICKS of junk, I have a problem with. There have been times in my life where the presence of a firearm in an emotionally charged situation has SAVED lives. I want to be able to protect myself, my country, my family, my neighbors, and my friends. I want a lot of things. I DEMAND that I be given the same rights as any other American, and that I consider the rights of those that I apprehend. An apprehension is NOT a conviction, and that is where these "ASSET FORFEITURE" laws go wrong. The Bill of Rights is not a pick and choose proposition, as I have told Ollie North to his face. It is a piece of interwoven cloth, and if you unraval any thread, the entire tapestry becomes undone. I'll fight for the rights of the worst criminal, but also be first in line to be in his firing squad, should he be convicted. There are innocent people in prison, and there have been thousands of guilty slugs go free for every one of them. We have to strike a balance. That requires that we all STRENUOUSLY support ALL of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Even for your worst enemy, and the consequences should be applied to yourself or your best friend. Rights and responsibilities, folks. That's what we're here for. SEMPER FI! Ken Little |
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