Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/18/2001 6:04:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2001 6:04:57 AM EDT by guns762]
I heard that a bus in Utah was the target of an attempted hijacking by a couple. They said they had a bomb. Passengers over powered the hi-jackers, according to the news. My question is this. If you were a CCW holder, what would you have done? Do they realy have a bomb? In that case, if you tried to over power them, they might set it off. Do you pull out your firearm and threaten them; possibly having them set off the bomb? Do you pull the firearm out and fire on the hi jackers; possibly killing fellow passengers? Tough situation. This is a question I don't know how I would or should react. So, lets here your response. guns762
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:14:42 AM EDT
Well, I don't know the whole situation but I would probably draw and fire without warning. Wouldn't give them time to respond or blow up the bus.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:22:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hg112: Well, I don't know the whole situation but I would probably draw and fire without warning. Wouldn't give them time to respond or blow up the bus.
View Quote
This is also my first thought, but what happens to us when it turns out they did not have a bomb? Like in this case. Do we just take that chance, and protect ourselves? guns762
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:22:26 AM EDT
One word.....Bang!
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:29:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762:
Originally Posted By hg112: Well, I don't know the whole situation but I would probably draw and fire without warning. Wouldn't give them time to respond or blow up the bus.
View Quote
This is also my first thought, but what happens to us when it turns out they did not have a bomb? Like in this case. Do we just take that chance, and protect ourselves? guns762
View Quote
They said they have a bomb. You were in fear for your life. What's the problem? If someone was pointing a gun at you would you not shoot them because it might not be loaded?
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:33:51 AM EDT
If I was fortunate to live in a state where getting a CCW doesnt require donating your left nut, I would shoot first ask later! [}:D] Since the bus was full of passengers as witnesses that the couple claimed they had a bomb and were hijacking there is nothing wrong with putting one each of their heads immediatly. With what happened I think alot of people now have a differant take on heists. React as if you are going to die anyway. As sad as it is, I am still very proud of the folks on that flight that crashed in PA. Knowing there is still people out there that will defend the Country risking their own lives as civilians. This is not to make anything less of the other flights, for all we know they may have made an attempt but were not powerful enough. Perhaps not. But before this incident hijacking very rarely resulted in death by suicide so I can never be mad that its likely noone intervened.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 8:14:02 AM EDT
Let me say that I agree with the replies so far. There is one point that no one has addressed. Carrying firearms on an interstate carrier like Greyhound is the same as carrying on a commercial airline as far as the Feds are concerned.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 8:35:42 AM EDT
Agree with EOD. I think Greyhound is going to start screening passengers with those hand held wands. Not very likely that you will be able to carry on the bus.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 8:35:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy: Let me say that I agree with the replies so far. There is one point that no one has addressed. Carrying firearms on an interstate carrier like Greyhound is the same as carrying on a commercial airline as far as the Feds are concerned.
View Quote
In such a case, I think the feds would have a hard time finding a jury that would convict. Of course, only a criminal would be allowed to defend themselves in such a situation.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 8:36:42 AM EDT
We're becoming a country full of vigilantes. Bad times to be a criminal.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 9:05:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2001 9:25:08 AM EDT by AR_Rifle]
Rather being a vigilante than felt victim to a terrorist attack....Remember when they hijacked the bus, they have committed a crime, and what we did is self defense.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 9:13:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR_Rifle: One word.....Bang!
View Quote
Not to disagree...but... BangBang (DoubleTap) [^] Bulldog OUT
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 10:11:52 AM EDT
And IF the bomb is real, and rigged to detonate when the turd RELEASES the plunger? You cap him, you just set off the bomb. The same scenario could be played out in an aircraft as well. And would be. I'm pretty sure than any future aircraft hijacking plans will take into account armed air marshals on board. Every time we come up with a plan, somebody out there can come up with a way around it. The FAA and others need to keep thier mouths shot about the security measures they are inacting. That little TV show documenting the Air marshal's training was really neat. I'm sure the hijackers were taking notes too. Ever notice how the Navy SEALS won't go into thier tactics to the media? There's a good reason for that. Rich
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 10:23:56 AM EDT
Every scenario is different, don't get a mind set ahead of time. Where are you seated on the bus, where are the hijackers. Who is in between. Is the bus moving, how fast, on what type of road. Can you take them down without shooting. Lots of questions. Know your environment, do some recon and plan some what ifs once you're actually on the bus.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 10:36:18 AM EDT
[shock]
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 10:45:41 AM EDT
"Do you pull the firearm out and fire on the hi jackers; possibly killing fellow passengers?" Umm....YOU may hit other passengers, but I guarantee you that I ain't gonna miss. Bamm.......Plop! Now I'll ask the questions. [pistol]
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 11:12:25 AM EDT
If they have a bomb,obviously they are planning on dying.I'll speed up the process....BANG!!!
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 11:33:57 AM EDT
And IF the bomb is real, and rigged to detonate when the turd RELEASES the plunger?
View Quote
Then it's likely to go off sooner or later anyway. But who's going to bother to hijack a BUS in the first place? You can't take it to Cuba. You can't use it to destroy a skyscraper. You can't outrun the police with it. You can kill the passengers, but you could do that without getting aboard anyway.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 11:49:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 12:34:24 PM EDT
Okay, this is from the perspective of a SWAT operator who has trained for these situations and done many a scenario: SHOOT THEM BOTH IN THE FUCKING HEAD. Most of these bomb hijackings are bullshit- any mope can rig up a bag to look like it might contain a bomb, and they depend on the belief of the passengers to terrify them into compliance. Whether or not they actually have a bomb, they claim they do, which is enough for you to be in legitimate fear for your life and the lives of the other passengers. As far as them actually having a bomb with a 'dead-man' switch, this is certainly a possibility. However, most mopes don't have the stones to rig up or use a dead-man switch, so it's probably a bluff. If it's not, you might as well shoot anyway, 'cause your chances of getting out alive are right slim. All the cops are going to be able to do is negotiate, and someone who's nuts enough or dedicated enough to actually rig up a bomb with a dead-man switch is probably not going to be amenable to negotiation. The bottom line is, even if the bomb and the dead-man switch are real, you do society more of a favor in the long run by taking the shot. If every mope who tries this shit gets smoked, it will stop. There may be some incidents where the bomb is real and the good guys die too, but the overall effect will be to stop this type of hijack attempt. And besides, it's better to die on your feet fighting back than to die like a sheep in the aisle. Just be sure you can make the shot!
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 12:44:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 12:50:32 PM EDT
Let's remember children, a CCW gives you the right to carry a firearm, it does not give you the responsibility to take action in every situation. Sometimes it is better to wait, have a little patience and let the situation develope. A wise man once said that it is better to be a living witness than a dead hero. And for those "SWAT" cops and others who "KNOW" that they can make that shot, things change dramatically under pressure!!![KILL] No offense meant to any operators who have BTDT, but I shoot with a lot of police/military personel and most of them CAN'T HIT SHIT!!!
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 12:56:29 PM EDT
If they look middle-eastern, BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG, BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG, BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG, change mag, BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG, BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG, BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG, change mag, check for vitals, get off bus, go home, have a beer.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 1:01:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 1:07:39 PM EDT
I love stories like this one of Ameican vigilantism. Time to kick arse on these freaks, geeks and preaks who make threats like this. For too long in this country we have preached "tolerance" and allowed these bottom feeders to pursue their little fantasy worlds. A LARGE dose of reality is in order. And Americans taking control back from these attention-deprived would-be terrorists is JUST what the doctor ordered. "An armed society is a polite society." Know it. Learn it. Live by it.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 1:17:17 PM EDT
"Wouldn't it be easier and less bloody to call the bitching Cuban-Americans in Miami and have them protest the hijacking? " Posted by EdAvilaSr But they're too damn busy prostesting about Cuban cigars and Castro's goofy looking beard. [:)>] Hey Ed, you got a cute daughter to send over here to Texas? A niece would be okay too. Still looking for a good woman with a lot of passion. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 1:28:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I love stories like this one of Ameican vigilantism. Time to kick arse on these freaks, geeks and preaks who make threats like this. For too long in this country we have preached "tolerance" and allowed these bottom feeders to pursue their little fantasy worlds. A LARGE dose of reality is in order. And Americans taking control back from these attention-deprived would-be terrorists is JUST what the doctor ordered. "An armed society is a polite society." Know it. Learn it. Live by it.
View Quote
FUCK tolerance...shoot the pieces of shit!.......[rail]
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 3:20:17 PM EDT
We can no longer assume that any hijacker is gonna ask for a bag of money and a plane to Bolivia. They might just ram the bus into a school full of orphans, yell "Long live Osama, and death to the infidels", and then blow everybody up. With that as a possibility, I am much more likely to take some kind of action. I would try to stay cool, and make a move if opportunity presents. The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia will not allow me to legally carry a firearm for my personal protection, but I would bite them like Mike Tyson if I had too.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 3:30:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rabbit9: Sometimes it is better to wait, have a little patience and let the situation develope. A wise man once said that it is better to be a living witness than a dead hero.
View Quote
This is the kind of attitude that may have been practiced before 9/11, but NO MORE! That day, the 'situation developed' into thousands of deaths.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 3:36:30 PM EDT
Boom-Boom! Double tap. It's not only the right thing to do, it's your duty to do it. BTW this reminds me of the carefree days of yesteryear when I once took an AR on a Greyhound. I needed to go somewhere and I damn sure wasn't going to check an AR to the baggage hold and let some idiot walk off with it. So it came apart and went into a duffel bag and no one was the wiser. I wouldn't try that nowadays, I am sure the consequences of being found on a bus with an evil assault weapon would make for an *interesting* experience.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 3:40:32 PM EDT
Well all depends on situation. I wouldn't pull out my gun and start firing which would endanger the lives of others nor would I just sit there. I read an article of Russian snipers responding to a hi-jacked bus situation the suspect had an ak and grenades he said if his demands were not met he would blow him and the hostages up. The hostage rescue negotiaters got the suspect to release all kids and women. Then I forgot some of it for some reason he comes outta the bus about to pull the pin of the grenade the snipers responded by shooting him in the head to kill him instantly to prevent the grenade to blow up. So it all depends on situation.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 3:43:57 PM EDT
Shoot the hostage...... Always Shoot the hostage...... Just kidding, I'd shoot. but we lowly peasants aren't allowed to carry. Guncrazy223 --------------------------------------- Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 4:11:30 PM EDT
i believe i'd have to pop somebody while being careful not to shoot out any windows for fear the decompression might suck someone out the window.....Glazer rounds may be just the ticket......Dick
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 5:35:09 PM EDT
Some years ago in a South American city, (In Bolivia I think) it got to be the rage for thugs to board a city bus, whip out the old gat, and hijack the bus. The bandit would have the driver go to some isolated spot and rob the passingers. Occasionally a female victim would be taken off and raped. The government loosened up on the citizens ability to go armed. Shortly after, a bus hijacker swaggered onto a downtown bus, whipped out his cannon and announced a holdup. 18 passingers shot him. Last I heard, there has never been another bus robbery in Bolivia.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:00:51 PM EDT
Well if I was wearing my trench coat w/my M1super90 under it I'd just light'um'up!But it might be summer and i might be going to the beach with just my towel on,In that case I'd just flash them................. that would render them helpless![;)]
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 6:44:39 PM EDT
Nuke'em from orbit...it's the only way to be sure..... Rich
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 7:15:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By qwijibo:
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy: Let me say that I agree with the replies so far. There is one point that no one has addressed. Carrying firearms on an interstate carrier like Greyhound is the same as carrying on a commercial airline as far as the Feds are concerned.
View Quote
In such a case, I think the feds would have a hard time finding a jury that would convict. Of course, only a criminal would be allowed to defend themselves in such a situation.
View Quote
I have the NRA Interstate Transport Guide here and it says you only have to deliver the gun to the driver if you are traveling Interstate. I would likely not be traveling Interstate on a damned bus. I only travel Intrastate on a Greyhound. So, in short Bang, Bang, Bang. Double Tap to the center of mass and a shot in the head. This is the method I heard Navy Seals use. I practice it down at the range sometimes. If you are traveling in only 2 states I suggest you get off close to the state line and take alternate transport over the state line. Then board another bus for the remainder.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 7:54:35 PM EDT
Last dummy that tried to BLOW UP a bus -- burned his lips on the tail pipe,-- after that his buddy hijacked the bus to Cuba.-- gotta go now, medication wearing off!!--ALLONS11
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 9:06:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2001 9:30:48 PM EDT by Sparky315]
Oh thank you, thank you Father Rabbit for pointing out our mistaken thinking, especially in that wonderfully condescending tone! Appreciate your taking this opportunity to take a shot at us cops, too- that just happens way to infrequently on this board. Why don't you re-read my post and actually pay attention to the whole thing this time. My point was not that I'm a big, bad SWAT god and I could make that shot, so you can too and you're a pussy if you don't try. My point was that hijackers gamble that nobody has the stones to punch their ticket at the start of the party. If they've done their homework, they know how SWAT is going to respond to their play. The armed citizen or off-duty officer who analyzes the situation, sees that the shot is within his or her capability and takes it is just doing his or her duty as a good citizen. The 'be a good witness' routine has gotten a lot of people needlessly killed. Yeah, there's a time and a place for it, but it's been peddled as the only thing a thinking human could possibly do for so long that we're brainwashed. It may indeed be the best choice in a given situation, but to advocate it as the only sensible one in every situation reeks of cowardice. That's the mindset of the sheep, and it's the one the terrorists count on. The Israelis have learned through hard experience that fighting back may be expensive, but sometimes it's the best choice.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 11:33:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Oh thank you, thank you Father Rabbit for pointing out our mistaken thinking, especially in that wonderfully condescending tone! Appreciate your taking this opportunity to take a shot at us cops, too- that just happens way to infrequently on this board. Why don't you re-read my post and actually pay attention to the whole thing this time. My point was not that I'm a big, bad SWAT god and I could make that shot, so you can too and you're a pussy if you don't try. My point was that hijackers gamble that nobody has the stones to punch their ticket at the start of the party. If they've done their homework, they know how SWAT is going to respond to their play. The armed citizen or off-duty officer who analyzes the situation, sees that the shot is within his or her capability and takes it is just doing his or her duty as a good citizen. The 'be a good witness' routine has gotten a lot of people needlessly killed. Yeah, there's a time and a place for it, but it's been peddled as the only thing a thinking human could possibly do for so long that we're brainwashed. It may indeed be the best choice in a given situation, but to advocate it as the only sensible one in every situation reeks of cowardice. That's the mindset of the sheep, and it's the one the terrorists count on. The Israelis have learned through hard experience that fighting back may be expensive, but sometimes it's the best choice.
View Quote
Let me clear the air, I have nothing but respect for those "behind the badge", as I thought the last line of my original post said. I do have a total lack of understanding why a lot of people believe that just because they carry a gun means that they will have the ability to use it when SHTF, cops included. I apoligize if you saw this as condescending. But despensing with all of the charge into the fray macho bu!!$h!t, I hate to see bad idiots get good people killed.[FRAG]
Top Top