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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/4/2005 12:04:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:07:04 PM EDT
I wouldn't say this is due to Bush. Probably some lower level paper pusher.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:08:30 PM EDT
Just have them come through mexico like all the rest.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:08:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:09:03 PM EDT
If this is true and was Chertoff 's orders to refuse them entry ,then he has some explaining to do.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:10:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 12:15:52 PM EDT by Max_Mike]
My guess is they don’t have the time or inclination to stop what they are doing to have a make happy side show.

We have plenty of boats and assets stacked up and waiting for transport in to an area with limited capabilities to receive incoming traffic.

ETA: The problem is not that we don’t have enough of anything one thing, we have plenty more than enough... the problem is getting what we have there WITHOUT causing more problems.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:15:29 PM EDT
We got so many resources pouring into the area, supplies, some 50,000 troops alone, not to mention NGOs, civilian Federal Agencies and the like moving into the area, not to mention trying to move over a quarter of a million people out all on one MSR in and out of the city.

The airports weren't open until a couple of days ago and now we have hundreds of planes and helos swamping what ATC there is there.

Dropping them in would not have been the best of ideas for obvious reasons.

Not to mention with just about all of our resources being used if something happens elsewhere here or at another location around the globe who would be there to respond?

We have 60 countries offering some sort of help, for which we are truly grateful. However, we can't all go to the scene of one, albeit massive, disaster.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:19:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 12:20:52 PM EDT by Winston_Wolf]

Originally Posted By Striker:

Although i absolutely hate our Prime Minister , to his credit , he ordered 5 DART teams to Louisianna (sic) on wednesday (sic) morning . They were set to go on wednesday (sic) evening when the Department of Homeland Security refused them entry . No one can figure out why . They would have been set up and fully operational by thursday (sic) morning but they are still sitting here in Canada .






... tagged

... I want an answer too, but I fairly certain it has nothing to do with the POTUS
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:07:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:02:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 2:07:29 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Striker:
I have no doubt you folks have the resources to deal with the problem but do you have a military unit that exists for this specific purpose?
I just find it disheartening..there isn't much we can offer from a military stand point but our DART teams are the best at what they do..to see them stuck here because they were denied entry makes no sense.



Thanks for the offer… BUT.

It makes plenty of sense for the reasons stated above. There is one major airport open down there and one land route open. When they have a opening I am sure your people will get in.

This ain't about making Canada feel good.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:16:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Striker:
I have no doubt you folks have the resources to deal with the problem but do you have a military unit that exists for this specific purpose?
I just find it disheartening..there isn't much we can offer from a military stand point but our DART teams are the best at what they do..to see them stuck here because they were denied entry makes no sense.


We have deployed 18 DMRT, I think it's called, teams prior to the storm making landfall. They're not as large as your teams ~35 people in them; however, they were already pre-staged. Also USAF and USA field hospitals were being deployed, as we see now at the airport, early in the week.

None of them, as far as I know, are self-sustainable for 60 days. Your teams have an intriguing capability; I just wonder about the initial logistics tail that accompanies them. 200 people, plus gear, plus supplies for 60 days is a helluva load.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:24:32 PM EDT
I have no stand on whether anyone should be let in to help or not, it isn't my call.

But keep in mind the significance of allowing foreign troops on our soil. I know, I know, it is Canada and they are our buddies... but if I see blue helmets any time soon, letting in the first foreigners was the jumping-off point for it...


- BG
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:29:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:32:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By Striker:

Although i absolutely hate our Prime Minister , to his credit , he ordered 5 DART teams to Louisianna (sic) on wednesday (sic) morning . They were set to go on wednesday (sic) evening when the Department of Homeland Security refused them entry . No one can figure out why . They would have been set up and fully operational by thursday (sic) morning but they are still sitting here in Canada .






... tagged

... I want an answer too, but I fairly certain it has nothing to do with the POTUS



+1 Patty
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:34:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:36:43 PM EDT
And Canadians wonder Americans are leery of putting our federal government in charge of our health services.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:38:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:42:13 PM EDT
FWIW, sounds like a LOT of areas (states, countries which we count among our cherished friends) were ready to assist immediately, but sorting out just wth was going on and lining up logistics had to come first. Understand that the mayor is apparently a dick, the governor is apparently incompetent and the senator (at least the one discussed today) qualifies for the C-word... not that we would not welcome all the help possible, just that there is a political pissing contest with the usual BS turf wars that needs kid gloves lest the media blame the feds for trampling their feelings.


Simply put: if TPTB in New Orleans or Louisiana were remotely competent, they would have ordered looters shot on sight a week ago. That they didn't shows that they are still playing touchy feely games with reality, and I'll put my money on reality every time.

Contrast with 9/11 and the dimensions of the petty behavior are stark.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:55:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Well… we have been reading posts here asking were is the outside help… well, Canada and Britain offered help from the get go but entry was denied.

Seems your friends can't win, if we offer to help we are politely told to wait till we get back to you, if we don't offer help we are called ungrateful… we can't win.

Andy


A bit of drama here don't you think?

You're talking about the varied individual opinions of a couple of thousand people who happen to log on to the same BB. Their opinions are going to be varied, and that is to be expected. However, they don't speak on behalf of the American government, nor do they reflect the views, one way or another, of a majority of American people.

The Secretary of State speaks for the government, and she has turned down no one. Something else to think about, we, the US, now have four cabinet level departments of government involved in this: Homeland Security, Health and Human Services, Defense, and State. This is unprecendented in American history. Never before have we been in a position where we may require outside help for what is usually an internal problem.

The government of the US has not turned down any help. Delayed it possibly, but not turned it down. It would not do to have Canadians nor Brits being shot at by our upstanding citizens when you're here on a humanitarian mission.

Also this storm season is expected to have named storms up to "W". We're about half way. There may be more storms to make landfall, and it would not do to have your resources tied up in our country if another storm hit other countries less able to help themselves. Or if another large storm hits us then where are we? These resources are perishable to an extent. If they are being used one place, they are no longer available in others.

I'm willing to wager the vast majority of Americans are very appreciative of the offers of 60 countries. Good to know that even though we might not always agree on everything that we still have friends out there.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:13:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Well… we have been reading posts here asking were is the outside help… well, Canada and Britain offered help from the get go but entry was denied.

Seems your friends can't win, if we offer to help we are politely told to wait till we get back to you, if we don't offer help we are called ungrateful… we can't win.

Andy



Oh come on for God sake don’t you know we know we can depend on the British when in need.

This is not about anybody winning, this is about people in charge making tough decisions on what gets priority and what does not.

Just today the US asked for things form Europe that we needed and we are going to get it.

Everybody is grateful Canada, Britain, Europe want to help but someone has to make choice as to what we need and what we can use and when.

It is touching you and others outside the US are so frustrated you cannot directly help… and appreciated.


Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:14:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:19:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
My guess is they don’t have the time or inclination to stop what they are doing to have a make happy side show.

We have plenty of boats and assets stacked up and waiting for transport in to an area with limited capabilities to receive incoming traffic.

ETA: The problem is not that we don’t have enough of anything one thing, we have plenty more than enough... the problem is getting what we have there WITHOUT causing more problems.



It seems to be somewhat of a CF with personnel now, they probably do not need more and it might be a problem legally to have troops of a Foreign nation operating in the US.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:19:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 3:20:33 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:23:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Too many Canadians here already. They're coming down for our womenz anyway. GWB saw right through their plan and sent them packing. Hosers.




That's a big 10-4. They show up with no tans and Speedos and it turns our wimmenz firgid. Heck, some of them even switch teams after being accosted by the McKenzie Brothers. Canada should stick to trying to re-take Quebec.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:23:40 PM EDT

originally posted by vito113:
we can't win.

Now you know how us Americans feel...
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:26:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:29:04 PM EDT
I would guess too that the early reports of idiots driving around SHOOTING at helicoptors and rescue teams "may" have something to do with it too(?)

It'd be a nice little diplomatic nightmare if some team from our neighbors north of us had to defend themselves from some of their "Rescuees" with small arms fire.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:37:11 PM EDT
Meh, the only people I see at fault here, or who have pissed me off, are the libtards who are now seeing that the government can't hold your dick for you while you are taking a piss. Oh yeah, and that Farakhan guy needs to eat shit and die.

But back to the fuckin' libs. Do they really think that this was all caused by a lack of bureaucratic paperwork and programs? I honestly think that getting help to that city would have taken even more time if these morons had their way with reduced military funding and larger government aid programs.

People who are bitching don't realize that it takes time to get people, equipment, and transport to one specific part of the nation. Once they get there, they have to put up with urban scum of various sorts.

This isn't a dream world, you liberal asshats. Not all problems will go away if you bitch, whine, or throw enough money at it.

Also, I would like to thank Britain and Canada, I know you guys are willing to help.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 4:17:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Well… we have been reading posts here asking were is the outside help… well, Canada and Britain offered help from the get go but entry was denied.

Seems your friends can't win, if we offer to help we are politely told to wait till we get back to you, if we don't offer help we are called ungrateful… we can't win.

Andy


A bit of drama here don't you think?




Not really, there have been some very pissy posts about the 'apparent' lack of help from the outside world from some here…

Andy


Well, gee Andy, if I didn't know any better I'd think you failed to read and address the rest of my post so you can maintain your outrage.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 4:24:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 5:15:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 6:52:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 6:56:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Not outrage, just exasperation…

ANdy


Don't get exasperated by a bunch of guys using the anonymity of the internet to mouth off.

I'm willing to bet you'll see the US .gov responding to the offers next week. The people making the decisions about what kind of help they need were a little busy last week. Now that things are moving they can look past the immediate and get onto the long term stuff.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:30:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:55:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Just have them come through mexico like all the rest.



word to the big bird.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:02:09 PM EDT
majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2005/09/us_wont_accept_.html


Hrm, interesting.

I wonder if it was rejected by the federal level, because of what was going on down at the state level?

I'd like an answer too.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:06:55 PM EDT
Probably didn;t want to have a Canadian shot on US soil.


Why risk the incident? We have National Guard here.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:08:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blueshockey:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Just have them come through mexico like all the rest.



word to the big bird.




"Undocumented Rescuers"
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:17:14 PM EDT
now would there have been canadian bacon drops?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:39:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mojo:
I's great that other countries offering help...but if one sits and thinks about it:
Allowing either our friends from Canada or Brit can potentially create problems:
1. Like members posting above: Some of these looters will take a shot at, then I wonder how our friends Canadian or Brit will react. An international incident can occur and it wouldn't look good anyway one looks at it from either the point of view of US, Canadian, and Brit.
2. Probably enough help for now.
3. Since our friends are here to help, under whose command, and can our friends take orders which they might not like since they are experts in their field. It's going to be very frustrated to say the least.
4. Politics as usual. Not anything against Can or Brit, but the libtards, Demo, anti-Bush crowd, jessie jackson and friends would have a field day about Prez. Bush accepting help from other countries as if we can't take care of our own bullshit, blah, blah, blah.....

You Canadian and Brit guys shouldn't feel bad. Really. I know what you guys are genuinely love to help and that's enough for me.
My 2 pennies for Labor Day weekend.....



Ya... What he said....

We have enough problems with the "libtards, Demo, anti-Bush crowd, jessie jackson and friends" playing poltics with this... We don't need our friends pissed at us for one reason or another...
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