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Posted: 9/4/2004 11:33:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 11:34:54 PM EST by Alien]
I don't know if this has been posted before, but I don't believe there is much truth in the video. However, I wanted to see how other people picked it apart. It's a flash presentation with evidence that the author seems to believe shows that a missile hit the Pentagon instead of American Flight 77.

pixla.px.cz/pentagon.swf
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:43:17 PM EST
very well made video. So what happened to the real flight 77? Vanished into thin air?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:43:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:44:33 PM EST
Hmm. That's very interesting. If a plane did hit the Pentagon, where is the debris of the plane itself? WTF??? What does everyone else think?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:45:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By brasspile:
DUPE x10
IBTL
+1

Thanks for playin, better luck next time....



Can u provide a link showing airplane debris?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:47:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Hmm. That's very interesting. If a plane did hit the Pentagon, where is the debris of the plane itself? WTF??? What does everyone else think?



There is debris. However, when a plane made largely out of aluminum slams into a concrete building at over 500 mph, the debris tends to be somewhat small.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:47:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By brasspile:
DUPE x10
IBTL
+1

Thanks for playin, better luck next time....



Sorry. I'm on here almost religiously and I've never seen anything.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:50:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 11:52:19 PM EST by leadnbrass]
Never saw it before. Hate the way it was presented. Only question I have is, if it was a missle, where is the plane and people that were on the flight that vanished???.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:51:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Hmm. That's very interesting. If a plane did hit the Pentagon, where is the debris of the plane itself? WTF??? What does everyone else think?



There is debris. However, when a plane made largely out of aluminum slams into a concrete building at over 500 mph, the debris tends to be somewhat small.



I'll have to agree with you on that, I guess, since I'm not an expert on airplane crashes. BUT, the video does seem convincing, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:51:34 PM EST
aluminum burns as well. There was a huge fire there---and missiles dont start huge fires- they just blow shit up. Fuel from a plane does make a good fire.

But why havent the videos been released from the gas stations?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:53:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:
aluminum burns as well. There was a huge fire there---and missiles dont start huge fires- they just blow shit up. Fuel from a plane does make a good fire.

But why havent the videos been released from the gas stations?



Interesting. Kinda like the JFK documents that can't be release till 2050 or something like that. Couldn't help making that analogy cuz I just saw the movie a couple days ago.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:56:14 PM EST
Up here in Alaska a fighter was in a mock dogfight and hit a mountain at +mach.
They didn't find anything bigger than a quarter.
I don't remember what type of aircraft, but I would assume an F-15 from how many I see flying around.

Still, the pictures and the story make you think a bit.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:03:11 AM EST
Did a google search. Check out what I found:

www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/Eastman/m18h05.html
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:10:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Did a google search. Check out what I found:

www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/Eastman/m18h05.html



he tries to confuse you into submission. His argument is weak.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:12:38 AM EST
Why does this topic come up so often when it is such bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:13:21 AM EST
Dupe and a bogus theory at that.


- BG
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:16:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Did a google search. Check out what I found:

www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/Eastman/m18h05.html



he tries to confuse you into submission. His argument is weak.


He doesn't try to confuse you! Listen to this compelling argument!


I call it the "Stegosaurus proof," Watson.
The Boeing 757 is long enough to fit seven
of its large tail fins along its back, like the
plates on the back of a Stegosaurus
-- whereas the yellow parking-pass cabinet
in the foregroud conceals only only five
lengths of the tail-fin image showing
above and behind the cabinet . The
cabinet can conceal a Stegasaurus with
five planes of the size shown, but not a
longer Stegasaurus with seven such
plates along its back. If it were a
seven-plate Stegosaurus we would
have be see its head extending out
behind the cabinet cabinet on the left
side. And so we know that this is
not the tail fin of a Boeing 757. The
shiny nose of that airliner that is
missing from view when in fact the
entire cockpit would have had to be
showing if this was the tail fin of
Flight 77.



Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:26:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:29:38 AM EST
I started one of these threads, because a friend sent it to me and i wanted a quick rebuttel.

I wonder why within the past week there have been so many of thes threads.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:32:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 12:34:51 AM EST by urbankaos04]
Sorry for adding to the dupes. I just hadn't seen any of this before. And for the record, I really thought that an airplane that size would leave more visible crap than what is shown in the pics. But what the hell do I know!
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:44:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 2:10:00 AM EST
They were abducted by an organisation of time travellers from a future Earth irreparably polluted who seek to rejuvenate the human race from those about to die in the past.

Oh wait, that doesn't explain the aircraft.

It encountered a strange phenomenon which somehow sent the plane, its crew and passengers, back into time.

Fucking stupid morons who come up with this shit.

Here's a clue...

This is the aftermath of an Ilyushin IL-76.
The Ilyushin crashed short of the airport during a second attempt to land in fog, broke up and burst into flames.
This was a controlled flight into ground.
Look at the pictures and notice that there is hardly anyFUCKINGthing left of the aircraft, and this is from a crash at about 130kts from 1800 feet.





Now fucking imagine a damn fucking airplane flying at 500kts into the fucking side of a structuraly reenforced building, then that fucking building collapsing around what's left of the aircraft and then buring for over 4 fucking hours.

The fucking Ilyushin IL-76 weighed in at about 374,786 lb, the 757 at about 255,000.

It doesn't take a fucking lot of brains to figure it out.


<­table width=85% border=0>

Originally Posted By leadnbrass:
Never saw it before. Hate the way it was presented. Only question I have is, if it was a missle, where is the plane and people that were on the flight that vanished???.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 2:56:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:
I don't know if this has been posted before, but I don't believe there is much truth in the video. However, I wanted to see how other people picked it apart. It's a flash presentation with evidence that the author seems to believe shows that a missile hit the Pentagon instead of American Flight 77.

pixla.px.cz/pentagon.swf



I call . I know someone who watched the plane fly directly into the building. She works for Gannett (sp?) publishing in VA.

Mike
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 3:03:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 3:03:49 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 3:48:56 AM EST
I'll sit this one out.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:51:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 9:00:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
They were abducted by an organisation of time travellers from a future Earth irreparably polluted who seek to rejuvenate the human race from those about to die in the past.

Oh wait, that doesn't explain the aircraft.

It encountered a strange phenomenon which somehow sent the plane, its crew and passengers, back into time.

Fucking stupid morons who come up with this shit.

Here's a clue...

This is the aftermath of an Ilyushin IL-76.
The Ilyushin crashed short of the airport during a second attempt to land in fog, broke up and burst into flames.
This was a controlled flight into ground.
Look at the pictures and notice that there is hardly anyFUCKINGthing left of the aircraft, and this is from a crash at about 130kts from 1800 feet.

aviation-safety.net/pictures/accidents/20030131-0-C-d-3-500.jpg
aviation-safety.net/pictures/accidents/20030131-0-C-d-2-500.jpg
aviation-safety.net/pictures/accidents/20030131-0-C-d-1-500.jpg

Now fucking imagine a damn fucking airplane flying at 500kts into the fucking side of a structuraly reenforced building, then that fucking building collapsing around what's left of the aircraft and then buring for over 4 fucking hours.

The fucking Ilyushin IL-76 weighed in at about 374,786 lb, the 757 at about 255,000.

It doesn't take a fucking lot of brains to figure it out.


<­table width=85% border=0>

Originally Posted By leadnbrass:
Never saw it before. Hate the way it was presented. Only question I have is, if it was a missle, where is the plane and people that were on the flight that vanished???.




Good job
+1
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 9:06:07 AM EST
People in the NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers' Association) conference room watched the plane fly into the Pentagon. They have a spectacular view (normally) through ceiling-to-floor windows facing South.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 9:30:37 AM EST
The conspiracy theorists always forget one thing......MOTIVE!

Millions of people on the highways around the Pentagon and the Gov. did a sneak attack on the Pentagon and supposedly nobody saw it?

Also if it was a missle that exploded on impact why the hole through three sections?

That's a good video, too bad he's a fucking nutjob!



Link Posted: 9/5/2004 9:41:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By COZ:
The conspiracy theorists always forget one thing......MOTIVE!

Millions of people on the highways around the Pentagon and the Gov. did a sneak attack on the Pentagon and supposedly nobody saw it?

Also if it was a missle that exploded on impact why the hole through three sections?

That's a good video, too bad he's a fucking nutjob!






It looks like something slender punched neat holes through a couple of Pentagon rings. The holes were too small to be the fuselage of a plane and there is no wing dammage on the sides the of the building where initial impact took place, just a huge hole. The towers looked like they had been cut into with a sharp object, because the wings sheared into them. Doesn't look the same on the Pentagon.

I'm not saying its true, but it doesnt seem like anyone can prove it is false. Other than saying hes a fake.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 9:43:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 9:48:44 AM EST by thompsondd]
This is a newspaper report of a B1 crash that occured back in Nov 92. It claimed a friend of mine from USAFA as well as 3 other crewmen. (check out the text that I bolded) RIP Paul.


Pilot Error Led to Crash

(From the Abilene Reporter-News)
Pilot error led to crash


"There was no visible horizon, no peak sites as you would normally see. Basically (it was) pitch black," said 1st Lt. Kenneth R. Tatum Jr., also of the 337th Bomb Squadron.

With its TFR, which looks out 10 miles in front of the plane and automatically flies the plane over any obstacles at a pre-set altitude, the B-1B is equipped for all-weather, day or night low-level navigation in the conditions that existed, the report said.

As it entered the IR-165 training area, the crew was flying about 600 feet above the ground -- parallel to and several hundred feet below the rim of an extended sheer ridge. It is a maneuver the crews routinely practice to simulate avoiding enemy radar.

In accordance with Air Force regulations, whoever was in control -- Goc or Ziemba -- had the TFR engaged because of the lack of visibility.

For some unexplained reason, 28 seconds prior to impact the crew started a left turn in the direction of the ridge, eventually rolling to a steep bank of approximately 50 degrees.

Pasini said later Friday that such banking maneuvers are not unusual as crews practice using the terrain to "mask" the plane from enemy radar.

What happened next was unusual - and fatal. Someone overrode a critical aircraft control. It happened like this, according to the report:

14 seconds after banking -- or 13 seconds before impact -- the plane's TFR generated a "flyup" -- a rapid climb that ensures the plane will clear the obstacle the radar has detected.

There are three causes for a "flyup," the report says: 1. the aircraft is below the desired flight path; 2. the aircraft is flying too slow to maintain flight along the desired flight path, or 3. the aircraft will soon be closer to the ground than 83 percent of the set clearance limit.

12 seconds prior to impact, the person in control kicked in the plane's afterburners for maximum thrust and sped up to more than 500 miles per hour -- again a common maneuver. This meant the plane was climbing steeply at the rate of 6,000 feet per second.

But only three seconds later -- 9 seconds prior to impact -- the person in control, manually terminated the "flyup" with a trigger switch and cut back the afterburner.

Between 8 and 3 seconds prior to impact, the plane banked to the left; its needle nose was down in a slight descent similar to a configuration for landing.

At the moment of impact, the plane was descending at the rate of 800 feet per second when, under TFR "flyup," it should have been climbing.

As part of the investigation, an 8th Air Force Standardization crew flew the same route in another B-1B with all variables being as close as possible to Pyote 70 -- except the test was flown in daylight.

When the aircraft commander got the predicted "flyup," he allowed it to continue rather than overriding it like the Pyote 70 crew did.

The test plane crossed the impact point at 8,500 feet, or 2,000 feet above the ridgeline, the report says.

Because of the violence of the explosion, an in-depth analysis of the plane's ejection seats could not be accomplished, the report says. While some of the seats' components had fired, investigators theorized they fired upon impact, and not because the crew had initiated ejection procedures.

"They never knew what hit them," is the way one senior Dyess official put it. Nothing in the report contradicts that.

The autopsy on each victim listed "multiple blunt force injuries" as the cause of death. DNA samples obtained from parents had to be used for positive identification.


Under the same section, the report further says Ziemba had received inadequate TFR training, and had never received the required TFR training on the mountainous low-level route.

Meanwhile, other sections of the report indicated officials had some concern over Goc's abilities as pilot. A former pilot of KC-135 and KC-10 tankers, he had completed B-1B bomber pilot training satisfactorily, but had failed a check ride when he sought to be upgraded to instructor pilot last June.

At the time, Goc denied a superior's observation that concern over a domestic matter might have caused him to fail the test, the report says. His commander told investigators he was concerned over Goc's abilities as an instructor, not his ability as a pilot.

Goc subsequently passed the IP check ride in September but was assigned to the 337th to get more flight experience, rather than being made an instructor pilot.

But instead of flying more, he apparently was assigned to schedule flights. In August, a report on one of his flights indicated he was "rusty" since he had not flown in 55 days. His terrain-following segment was recorded as "excellent."

Goc had amassed more than 2,700 flying hours, including 398 in the B-1B, but had flown only 43 hours in the 90 days prior to the crash, the report shows.

Ziemba had 391 flying hours, including 186 in the B-1B. But in the 90 days prior to the crash he had flown 94 hours, more than twice as much as Goc.

The report says both Goc and Ziemba were described as outstanding pilots by their fellow fliers.

The investigative board was headed up by Col. Michael A. Kenny, a B-1B operations group commander at Ellsworth Air Force Base. Kenny was one of the first instructor pilots when the B-1B was assigned to Dyess in 1985.

While the report exonerated the B-1B's oft-criticized TFR system, it confused many at Dyess who knew the officers who perished. "We know what they did, but we don't exactly know why they did it. That's something I guess we'll never know," one officer said.

The 31-inch thick report does not speculate on whether Goc or Ziemba made the fatal errors. "From the data available, it is not possible to determine which pilot was flying the aircraft during the last few minutes of flight," the report concluded.


Lessons Learned: When you hit the ground at an angle, stuff scatters. When you hit something at right angles (like a sheer rock cliff face or a concrete building with steel reinforced) the energy transfer is so astronomical that there is just not much of anything left. Do you know how much energy has to be exerted in the short amount of time that is involved in an accident like this to leave so little of a human body that DNA samples have to used? They couldn't even find a tooth that belonged to any of these guys.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 10:13:49 AM EST
Aluminum burns.

Enough said.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 10:20:38 AM EST
IBTL -

And where is the 200 floors of computers, office equipment, furniture that fell with the Towers?

Does this asshole not comprehend insineration? Is the asshole who made that movie filing missing persons reports for all the innocent people who were vaporized and never found?

Dork ass and his computer, fuck him.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 11:05:17 AM EST
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO POST THIS!!!!
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:15:00 PM EST
How in the world does a jet airliner that has a wing-span of 140-170 feet across make a hole in the Pentagon approx 16feet across?

Someone please answer me that.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:20:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By JHill:
How in the world does a jet airliner that has a wing-span of 140-170 feet across make a hole in the Pentagon approx 16feet across?

Someone please answer me that.





It's called MOMENTUM !!!!

The wings were sheared off and followed the plane into the building. Just because they were torn off the fuselage doesn't mean they still weren't trying to move forward at 500 mph.

Plus, check out snopes.com - they show pictures that DO ILLUSTRATE the damage from the wings to the building.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:21:58 PM EST
Ditto Creesh Somone postic pics of a PLane with the fragments numbred showing exactly where they came from. This is BS. Nicely crafter flash BS
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:22:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Aluminum burns.

Enough said.



DING DING DING !!


Exactly !


Are people really this stupid??? An airplane is mostly hollow and filled with air and fuel. When it goes up like a bomb inside a building, there's not going to be big pieces of it after the fire is done burning (unlike an accident like TWA800, where most of the pieces could be recovered, because the didn't burn up - but were jsut scattered around the ocean floor as a result of the impact).
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:22:38 PM EST
People have to remember that the person making this documentary imploys the same tactics as a certain overweight left-leaning documentarian. Dont believe everything it tells you because they leave out certain vital stats.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:25:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
It looks like something slender punched neat holes through a couple of Pentagon rings. The holes were too small to be the fuselage of a plane and there is no wing dammage on the sides the of the building where initial impact took place, just a huge hole. The towers looked like they had been cut into with a sharp object, because the wings sheared into them. Doesn't look the same on the Pentagon.

I'm not saying its true, but it doesnt seem like anyone can prove it is false. Other than saying hes a fake.



WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ?????

PEOPLE SAW THE PLANE FLY OVERHEAD AND HIT THE BUILDING !!!!!!

What do you believe - hundreds of eyewitnesses, an airline missing a plane, a lot of families with missing relatives .... OR SOME ASSHOLE FRENCHMAN WHO IS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF SELLING A BOOK ????
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:27:40 PM EST
I am pretty sure I could make a convincing film that the mastermind behind 9/11 was Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Just because I could do it doesnt make it true.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:30:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I am pretty sure I could make a convincing film that the mastermind behind 9/11 was Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Just because I could do it doesnt make it true.




You could probably convince people in another country that 9-11 never actually happened, and that the WTC buildings were just demolished (to make way for new buildings) - and the evil U.S. decided to give itself an excuse for it's impreliaistic agenda to take over the world.

I bet there are stupid people out there who'd believe it was just a big Hollywood production - and could probably find all sorts of weird details in the grainy footage that would support bizarre conclusions.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:33:25 PM EST
uh, yeah....


everyone saw the second one LIVE on television.


So wtf would the terrorists use a missile to hit the first one and an airplane to hit the second one?
It would have been just as easy for them to launch to missles in quick succession. Or for that matter 200 missiles.

Do you know why they didn't use missiles? Because they can't get ahold of large enough ones that would actually bring down a building. That and the only method of aiming they have is line of sight, therefore the only way they could hit the building is from a launcher fired from the street. Somehow I think people would've noticed a mobile scud missile launcher rolling down the streets of New York.

The missile argument makes no damn sense whatsoever.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:33:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:43:05 PM EST
They didn't find any airplane debris in the world trade center collapse! It must have been a truck bomb that rammed the buildings, on the 70th floor!

Oh yeah, and they didn't find any computers, furniture, office equipment, or people in the WTC wreckage either. You know why? Because the entire thing was an empty stage prop, built by Bush to take attention away from the election he stole and his appointment to the office by the supreme court!

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/idea.gif

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 2:12:54 PM EST
The outer surface of the World Trade Center was made of:
A. Reenforced concrete walls with steel beams and blast proof windows.
B. Thin aluminum and steel lattice with glass on the outside.




Originally Posted By Jeeper21:

It looks like something slender punched neat holes through a couple of Pentagon rings. The holes were too small to be the fuselage of a plane and there is no wing dammage on the sides the of the building where initial impact took place, just a huge hole. The towers looked like they had been cut into with a sharp object, because the wings sheared into them. Doesn't look the same on the Pentagon.

I'm not saying its true, but it doesnt seem like anyone can prove it is false. Other than saying hes a fake.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 2:51:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By brasspile:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
It looks like something slender punched neat holes through a couple of Pentagon rings. The holes were too small to be the fuselage of a plane and there is no wing dammage on the sides the of the building where initial impact took place, just a huge hole. The towers looked like they had been cut into with a sharp object, because the wings sheared into them. Doesn't look the same on the Pentagon.

I'm not saying its true, but it doesnt seem like anyone can prove it is false. Other than saying hes a fake.



WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ?????

PEOPLE SAW THE PLANE FLY OVERHEAD AND HIT THE BUILDING !!!!!!

What do you believe - hundreds of eyewitnesses, an airline missing a plane, a lot of families with missing relatives .... OR SOME ASSHOLE FRENCHMAN WHO IS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF SELLING A BOOK ????



DK_Prof: You fell into the trap!




It CANNOT be a trap, because Akcbar is not here !
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 2:53:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 2:53:27 PM EST
AJ! NTSA!

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 3:03:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 3:07:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By brasspile:
As mentioned in the post above yours, it is quiet easy to come up with an alternate theory, proclaim it as truth (having ZERO Evidence, only a concept), and then put the burden of proof on everybody else. Since you cannot PROVE what the missle was (instead of an airplane), then it obviously was a missle that hit the pentagon!




I know - that's the bread and butter of people like holocaust deniers - I just thought this one was so obvious to disprove.


... but you're right, I should know better. You just hate to NOT responde, because then some asshat goes "Aha - they've got no answer to my brilliant and insightful question"
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