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Posted: 9/21/2004 11:20:53 AM EST
This moron sent this is to todays paper, I need help, since I dont make much sense myself to send in our side. Here is what he wrote

""One out of every five policemen killed in the line of duty is the victim of a military -style assault weapon. Despite the lobbying of Congress by many chiefs of police to reauthorize the ban on 19 types of military-style assault weapons, the NRA has won as the ban ended last week. Will machine guns be legal soon?

Now all the bad guys, including Osama bin Laden and his fellow terrorists and countless gang members, are free to buy their AK-47s and Uzi machine guns, outgunning the FBI, police and everyone else.

Not content with owning any of thousands of types of weapons, the NRA and its members just had to have these 19 types of military-style assault weapons to defend themselves in their already heavily-armed homes.

But what about the rest of us who can become victims of stolen guns? We don't have heavily paid lobbyists with armfuls of campaign contributions.""



I know several of you have some good stuff wrote down to convey our side, someo one help me with this


Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:30:44 AM EST
He's simply WRONG. One of five police are killed with THEIR OWN weapons, let's outlaw them carrying at all, it would do as much good.

Figures I've seen are that AWs are 2-4% of weapons used in crime, seems like there's no way that they accout for 20% of police deaths.

Also, he's, probably intentionally, blurring the line between semi lookalikes and real deal class 3 FA weapons, which are unaffected by the ban.

Lastly, I understand that FA AKs run about $50 in that part of the world, kind of seems silly to claim that they would come here just to spend 10 times that for a semi copy, don't it?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:51:19 AM EST
Was this from the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation (AJC)? If so, don't expect the editors to print much of a rebuttle to this. Atlanta is the liberal central for most of (mostly conservative) Georgia. I don't have much of any talking points, but try to point out that last anyone checked, OBL and his like favored jet liners, stolen guns are stolen guns (why penalize law abiding citizens for criminals stealing their guns?) and the like.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:20:45 PM EST
Atlantas little sister,Macon
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:31:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 12:46:50 PM EST by The_Macallan]
From VPC
"Still a Threat to Police—One in Five Law Enforcement Officers Slain in the Line of Duty is Killed With an Assault Weapon

The gun industry's evasion of the 1994 ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines continues to put law enforcement officers at extreme risk. Using data obtained from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Violence Policy Center has determined that at least 41 of the 211 law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty between January 1, 1998, and December 31, 2001, were killed with assault weapons.(8) Using these figures, one in five law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty was killed with an assault weapon.

8) The Federal Bureau of Investigation data does not identify the firearm used in some instances, in those cases the type of firearm is listed as "unknown." Therefore, the number of law enforcement officers killed with assault weapons may actually be higher. "



Getting The Facts STRAIGHT


FACT: VPC Relies On Incomplete Data and Invalid Assumptions To Arrive At A Faulty Conclusion:

Number Of Officers Killed By Type of Firearm And Size Of Ammunition (1996-2001):
Handgun:
Year- 96 -- 97-- 98-- 99-- 00-- 01
.22 --- 4 -- 3 -- 4 -- 1 -- 4 -- 1
.25 --- 3 -- 2 -- 3 -- 1 -- 1 -- 1
.32 --- 1 -- 4 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 1
.357 -- 4 -- 3 -- 3 -- 2 -- 1 -- 4
.38 --- 5-- 10 -- 6 -- 4 -- 4 -- 2
.380 -- 6 -- 3 -- 1 -- 0 -- 3 -- 5
.40 --- 2 -- 4 -- 1 -- 2 -- 5 -- 5
.44 --- 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 1 -- 2
.45 --- 3 -- 4 -- 5 -- 1 -- 4 -- 6
.50 --- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1
9mm ---10 -- 9 - 14 - 12 -- 8 - 17
N/R --- 4 -- 2 -- 1 -- 1 -- 1 -- 1

Shotgun:
Year- 96 -- 97-- 98-- 99-- 00-- 01
12 ga - 0 -- 4 -- 1 -- 5 -- 3 -- 4
16 ga - 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
20 ga - 1 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0

Rifle:
Year- 96 -- 97-- 98-- 99-- 00-- 01
.22 --- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1
.223 -- 2 -- 3 -- 8 -- 1 -- 3 -- 1
.270 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 1 -- 0
.30 --- 1 -- 3 -- 1 -- 0 -- 2 -- 2
.30-06- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 1
.30-30- 2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0 -- 3 -- 0
7.62x39-0 -- 5 -- 6 -- 9 -- 1 -- 6
7.62x54-0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0
N/R -- 0 -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 0

Adding up all the LEO deaths from .223, .30 & 7.62 rifle rounds JUST between '98-'00, VPC arrives at "41" deaths from "Assault Weapons". Why no other years?
Well, if they had counted ALL the data, they'd have come up with 55 out of 317 LEOs killed from 1996-2001 which is 17.3% not "one out of five"!

And MOST importantly - there is no way ANYONE can determine the configuration of rifle JUST by the bullet recovered!
SO THAT "1 OUT OF 5" STATISTIC IS BASED ON INCOMPLETE DATA AND ON INVALID AND FAULTY ASSUMPTIONS OF BULLETS RECOVERED.

FACT: "Assault weapons" are NOT "machine guns".
They are "semi-automatic" meaning one pull of the trigger=one bullet discharged while the next bullet is then chambered ready for the next trigger pull. "Assault weapons" are not full-auto firearms and they do NOT "spray" bullets with a single pull of the trigger.
"ASSAULT WEAPONS" ARE NOT MACHINE-GUNS.



FACT: The "Assault weapon" Ban had NOTHING to do with silencers.
One of the cosmetic features addressed by the "Assault Weapon" Ban included flash-suppressors which reduce the bright muzzle-glare ONLY in the eyes of the shooter in low-light conditions. Flash-suppressors do NOT "hide" the bright flash from any other observer and do NOT "silence" the very loud report of the gunshot sound.
"FLASH-SUPPRESSORS" ARE NOT "SILENCERS" AND DO NOT MAKE THE SHOOTER "INVISIBLE" AT NIGHT.



FACT: The Columbine-Killers did not violate any provision of "Assault Weapon" ban.
The firearms used in Columbine included two shotguns (like those used for duck hunting), a pistol and a legally-produced TEC-9 "assault weapon". The AWB did not stop those two UNDERAGE killers from illegally acquiring them or illegally bringing them to school or illegally murdering 13 people.
THE "ASSAULT WEAPON" BAN DID NOT TAKE GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS.



FACT: The "Assault Weapon" Ban did NOT actually ban "assault weapons"
The ban only prohibited the NEW PRODUCTION of certain firearms based on cosmetic features. There were hundreds of thousands of "assault weapons" legally owned, bought and sold before the ban was implemented - and there were STILL hundreds of thousands of "assault weapons" legally owned, bought and sold during the past 10 years of the ban's existance.
EXISTING "UZIs, AR-15s AND AK-47s" HAVE STILL BEEN COMPLETELY LEGAL TO OWN, BUY AND SELL FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.



FACT: Studies demonstrated that the "Assault Weapon" ban "FAILED" to reduce gun-murders:
"We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995. However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof vests."
5.2.3. Assault Weapons and Crime -
"...assault weapons do not appear to be used disproportionately in violent crime relative to other guns"
"Overall, assault weapons accounted for about 1% of guns associated with homicides, aggravated assaults, and robberies" and "only 2% of guns associated with drug crimes were assault weapons."

5.2.4. Unbanned Handguns Capable of Accepting Large-capacity Magazines -
"The ban on large-capacity magazines does not seem to have discouraged the use of these guns."
6.2.1. Trends in Multiple-Victim Gun Homicides -
"[Studies] failed to produce any evidence that the ban reduced the number of victims per gun homicide incident."
6.3.4. Conclusions -
"[Studies] failed to produce evidence of a post-ban reduction in the average number of gunshot wounds per case or in the proportion of cases involving multiple wounds."
6.4.2. Assault Weapons and Homicides of Police Officers -
"In sum, police officers are rarely murdered with assault weapons."

THE DEFINITIVE CONGRESSIONAL REPORT (link here) ON THE "ASSAULT WEAPON" BAN SHOWED IT "FAILED" TO REDUCE GUN-MURDERS.


FACT: The 2nd Amendment is NOT about "duck hunting".
Military-style firearms (like "assault weapons") are specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment according to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in U.S. v. Miller (1939) and Lewis v. U.S. (1980).
* In the Miller decision the Supreme Court stated, "In the absence of any evidence tending to show that [a particular gun] has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument".
* In the Lewis decision, the Supreme Court stated, "the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia'".
SO ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT, MILITARY-STYLE FIREARMS ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF FIREARMS THAT ARE PROTECTED BY THE 2ND AMENDMENT.



FACT: Nobody NEEDS to infringe on the 2nd Amendment in order to reduce crime.
Our RIGHTS do not ebb and flow or come and go with the annual crime reports.
Our RIGHTS do not depend upon what today's gangbangers or psychopaths decide to do to get their next thrill or rage out.
Our RIGHTS are not contingent upon, qualified by nor based on what CRIMINALS use to commit crimes!
Our RIGHTS are derived from natural law, specifically protected by the Constitution and are NOT dependant on the findings in any crime studies!!!
Banning the possession of "assault weapons" because of some crime statistics is like banning the possession of sports cars because of drunk driving deaths or like banning the possession of the boxcutters because of 9-11.
OUR RIGHTS ARE NOT PREDICATED ON THE MOST RECENT CRIME STATISTICS!


Link Posted: 9/21/2004 6:55:29 PM EST
Just some loose talking points... use as you see fit.

(I tried to get my latest published letter offline, but couldn't find it @ work.)

Cars and swimming pools still kill exponentially more people than guns (all kinds).

Most LEO's are hit with their own guns... a lot more than 1 in 5.

"assault weapons" (a VPC invented term) have accounted for less than 2% of all deaths, per the FBI / National Institute of Justice Uniform Crimes Reports - a little more unbiased than the "ban-em-all" VPC statistics. More people were killed with pillows and baseball bats than "assualt weapons".

There are not "thousands of types of weapons". The formerly banned firearms fall under the category of "semi-automatic" - one shot for one pull of the trigger. The only thing that makes them different is they are evil looking and black, and easily misrepresented (by persons such as yourself) as machine guns - firearms that have been legal to own, but heavily regulated since 1934, and have NEVER since been involved in crimes by their legal owners.

In addition, many non "assault weapons" fire the same cartridges as "assault weapons", so a claim of knowledge of gun type by cartridge is pure hokum.

OBL & cronies smuggled weapons onto aircraft, assaulted passengers, and with premeditation comitted mass murder. One more law (renewed AWB) would stop them? OBL/AQ has access to REAL Assault Rifles - the selective fire kind, as well as rocket launchers, hand grenades, and anti-tank mines.

Compared with the freely available firearms and weapons listed above, that are available in shops and stalls in Pakistan, I doubt that OBL/AQ will be coming to the USA to buy their tools of death.

If guns can be stolen from the "heavily armed homes of NRA members", then don't you think that they could be stolen from the homes of police officers as well?
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