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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/3/2003 1:33:37 PM EDT
After a long time lurking I am making my first post. I have been having problems lately with my rifle. When I shoot, the shell ejects cleanly but the bolt doesn't seem to go back far enough for the next round to feed. The bolt closes on an empty chamber. When this problem first started the gun had sat in the safe awhile so I figured it needed to be oiled. I cleaned it went back to the range and the same thing happened. I plan to clean it again and really try to get it as clean as possible but in the mean time I am hoping for any tips about where to start trouble shooting. I have had this rifle for almost 12 years without any problems(about 3000 rounds through the reciever currently on it). It functioned perfectly the last time I used it before the last two times to the range.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:39:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:39:39 PM EDT
It's worthless in its condition. You've had it 12 years? I'll give you $200 for it and that's being generous.[;)] What type of ammo are you using? How well did you clean the rifle? What brand and configuration is the rifle?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:44:22 PM EDT
I have tried several magazines and was using PMC ammo. The rifle is a Colt lower with a Bushmaster M4 upper. I have the old upper which still works but that has had about 20,000 rounds through it and looks well used. $200.00 for a 12 year old rifle sounds pretty generous,I'm sure that hear in California I could get something much nicer for $200.00
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:45:39 PM EDT
Sold, I'll take it for $200. where do I send the FFL slip and money order?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:57:18 PM EDT
On a serious note, welcome to the board! MM419
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:26:28 PM EDT
May be short stroking. Number of potential causes but i'd put your gastube high on th list. First thing I'd do is shoot some gunscrubber down your gastube. Do this outside and point muzzle down. Don't inhale the fumes.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:52:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:56:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Do this outside and point muzzle down. Don't inhale the fumes.
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Party pooper.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:58:28 PM EDT
Thanks for the suggestions. I will try and check them all. How do I know if the gas rings are worn or if the gas key is loose. Will have to check a schematic to be sure which parts these are. I can take the whole thinbg apart but don't know the names of all the pieces.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:05:14 PM EDT
put bolt in carrier and hang upside down. If the bolt falls out they are loose. That's the backyard mechanic way anyhow. Gaskey will feel loose if it is.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:05:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:21:10 PM EDT
I just checked and the gas key is quite loose. Don't know how long it's been that way and why I didn't notice before. Hopefully that solves the problem. Will know when I go to the range Saturday. Thanks to everyone for their help. If I use the gun scrubber in the gas tube do I have to worry about residue when I shoot the gun or will it all run out?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:22:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Do this outside and point muzzle down. Don't inhale the fumes.
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Party pooper.
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Okay, okay, sorry. Wobblin-Gobblin may inhale everyones fumes[:D]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:26:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 226-fan: I just checked and the gas key is quite loose. Don't know how long it's been that way and why I didn't notice before. Hopefully that solves the problem. Will know when I go to the range Saturday. Thanks to everyone for their help.
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Just tightening the gaskey is unlikely to solve the problem as it will shoot loose again, more than likey. You will have to stake the bolts or replace with a new key and stake. Someone else can explain, I am rushed currently.
If I use the gun scrubber in the gas tube do I have to worry about residue when I shoot the gun or will it all run out?
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residue will evaporate off but you should do a usual bore cleaning afterwards as it will leave some residue in your bore via the gastube.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 1:01:49 AM EDT
And as noted is the gas key is not the prob,you may have gas rings lined -up! Just like compression rings on your car! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 2:54:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Okay, okay, sorry. Wobblin-Gobblin may inhale everyones fumes[:D]
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Heheheheh.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 3:07:14 AM EDT
Is the bolt carrier from Bushmaster also? I'm surprised it's not staked.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 10:18:05 AM EDT
The bolt carrier is from bushmaster. I don't fully understand what "staked" means. One of the screws clicks as it is tightened so I figure that means it is staked. If it loosens again I was thinking about a little bit of loctite.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 10:20:51 AM EDT
At armorer's school, they did not recommend staking replacement gas keys. They recommended using red loc-tite when replacing the key. Colt seems to stake everything at that facory, and breaking staking is a sever pain, though the keys seem to rarely cause problems, so having those factory staked isn't much of an issu. As to your problem, it does sound like it is somewhere in the gas system, especially since your key is loose. Clean everything, and go ahead and replace the key and gas rings. The rings are cheap. Replace the rings by first removing the old ones. Use a knife or other pointed object (a screwdriver may be a little thick) to open one at the split, and tease it of the bolt. Be careful, because they are sharp and will cut you. Once you have all three off, put the new ones on, reversing the process. make sure that the split ends are not lined up. Remove the old carrier key. Degrease the carrier and new key, and do a surgical cleaning while you have everything broken down. Might as well put new bolts on the key while you are at it. Add the red Loc-tite and tighten the bolts, making sure to keep the Loc-tite out of your gas sytem; carefully clean up any excess. On a staked key, there is usually enough built-up carbon and junk that has leaked that it locks everything together pretty solidly. Loose keys just shouldn't happen. Once everything is back together and dry, lube it all lightly. Your bolt, when extended, should stay extended when set gently against a hard surface, bolt face down. If it collapses, then there is too much "play" in your system, and it is time to go back to the drawing board. On the flip side, the bolt, starting from the retracted poistion, should snap out when you flick the carrier away from your body. If it won't, then things are too tight/too dirty. Carrier keys, gas rings and associated parts should be available pretty cheaply, and these are repairs that you should be able to do on your own without much assistance. If something doesn't seem right at some point, just get some professional help.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 10:29:06 AM EDT
Oh heck, I forgot something: "Staking" is when, at the factory, they score a bolt, screw or other item by hitting it with a punch to keep that item from ever being unscrewed. Things like the carrier key, which will probably never be dissambled on the vast majority of weapons, are usually staked so that they don't do what yours apparently did; work themselves loose. Staking can be broken, either through abuse (unlikely), or by the Armorer (tough, and a pain-in-the-a**). It usually doesn't need to be broken, though, so it is a moot point, mostly. Now Colt also stakes and loc-tite's the CAR stocks, for some damned reason, which is very tough to get through; you have to drill, dremel and heat it, along with lots of cussing, and a sacrifice of a little blood to actually open that staking. This is stupid because CAR stocks often need updating or could go on other weapons, but one can't do that because the staking is so danged tough. I had to break the staking on 5 Colt 635s last year when we were trading the parts in but keeping the Form 10 lowers to be rebuilt into "standard" M16s. That job really sucked.
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