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Posted: 2/17/2001 7:24:05 PM EST
I purchased a new gun at a gun show this weekend, the dealer sold it to me as new.

Anyway, I got it home and found in the paperwork the warrenty registration card was missing and the registration card reciept was filled out be someone else with the SN filled in and all.

First, is it illegal to sell an used gun as new, even if the old owner had it and returned it right away or something?

Second what would you guys do? Confront the dealer and see what he says, threaten to turn him in or actually turn him in?

I still like the gun, am happy with the purchase but feel misled and wronged?


Link Posted: 2/17/2001 10:14:23 PM EST
I would definatly ask him about it, I would'nt cop an attitude unless he does first.  Which he probably will.  For some reason most gun dealers are a$$holes.  Act their the only ones that knows $hit about guns.  Anyway there maybe a perfectly reasonable explanation, give him the benefit of doubt before you jump him though.[:)]
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 3:32:11 AM EST
Is this your first gun purchase? NEW doesn't mean the gun has never been sold. New doesn't even mean it has never been fired. There are several grades of new and even these vary.

[red]Absolutely Factory New In The Box:[/red] Unfired, hasn't been sold, but has been handled and dry fired by every idiot that came in the store. Minor scratches.

[red]Factory New:[/red] May not have been fired but has been sold twice to people that had to sell it back after their wives found out they couldn't pay the electric bill. Some small items may be missing. Dog chewed the paperwork.

[red]New:[/red]This weapon has been handled, sold and resold, fired a few times but looks pretty good. The dealer may have carried it for a while or let his brother-in-law hunt with it. Some dealers don't even bother to run a patch through the barrel. What paperwork? What box?

Note: I have purchased "NEW" guns at gun shows and from auction sites and got exactly that, a brand new gun in the box with all the factory items and paper. I usually reward these dealers by buying from them again, and again, and again.

[green]To whom are you going to turn the guy in? Electronics stores sell returned stuff all the time. Ask for a new warranty card and if he can't supply that and you are still pissed, ask him for your money back. Good luck.[/green]  

Link Posted: 2/18/2001 3:44:15 AM EST
Don't some warranty cards state that it had to be sold by an authorized dealer?
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 4:15:22 AM EST
I agree with the plan to calmly confront him.  It might have just been a mistake.  

If he gives you a hard time, my escalation plan would include going to the manufacturer, the distributor, everyone in the custody chain of the "new" gun.  

No manufacturer or distributor would want to have someone dealing with an end user that way.  If it was a returned item, the dealer should have confirmed that it was not used in any way and that the paperwork was in order or he should not have accepted the return (or he should have made it right by acquiring new paperwork.)  If that was not possible, he should not have either accepted the return or resold as new.

I think the term "warranty of merchantability" comes into play.

What a dissapointment.  I don't buy at gun shows unless the dealer has a walkin store that I am familiar with that I can get to.
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 4:17:50 AM EST
Caviat Emptor (sp?) I guess it is somewhat my fault for not asking all the right questions and in detail.

I bought it as "new in the box" so I assumed that is what I was getting. Like I said it doesn't matter in the point that I am still happy with it- but feeling somewhat misled and ripped off?

I guess I will just ask him about it in a nice way and see. Problem is the show is 60 miles away and I'd rather do it in person but we will see?

I was just wondering if the BATF or anyone follows up on this crap and takes interest or if I even have a gripe? I can't stand dealers doing business in a shady manner and like CIB stated assuming the rest uf us are idiots


Link Posted: 2/18/2001 4:32:19 AM EST
The weapon is NEW to you. If you bought it, and you were pleased with what you bought at the point of purchase then don't start "picking the flys*hit out of the pepper".

I have purchased New from dealers that had surface flaws and other things that would detract from the NEW Vision...But I was happy, and I am still happy with the choices that I made.

Enjoy your New toy!
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 4:44:06 AM EST
Hey IAJack,

If you bought it as "new in box", it just means that it hasn't been fired(except by the factory for testing purposes).  Most manufactures will take care of you if there is a problem regardless if you are the first or second owner.

Glad to see you made it to the show this weekend.  I couldn't due to work.

I'll give you a buzz a little later.

Link Posted: 2/18/2001 4:51:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 5:07:41 AM EST

That is the situation I suspect happened except the warrent reciept say it was purchsed in 97? I guess a dealer sitting on it for that long isn't that big of stretch though?
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 5:30:03 AM EST
Maybe guns need an odometer-like device? Every time you move the slide, cylinder, bolt or lever the thing clicks over once. Then the dealer could say "this one only has 150 clicks on it".  
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 7:30:28 AM EST
It depends on what your definition of "new" is. -- William Jefferson Clinton [;)]

I would do everything short of going to BATF.  Keep it in the family.
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 8:17:03 AM EST
I may not be an expert, but, new means just that, new, never been purchased by an individual. Just like when you buy a new car, If it has been bought by an individual it then becomes used. The value immidiatly depreciates. Using 3 or 4 different grades of new is simply double talk. Sounds just like a used car salesman, you know, "oh this AR15 was bought by a little old lady from miami, she never shot it but on sundays, always kept it cleaned and lubed properly, and always kept it paked in the safe when not in use." If I buy a weapon from a dealer that says it's new, it had better be NEW! If I discover otherwise he had better be giving me a rebate or i'm gonna take on out of his you know what! If you got a below retail deal on it then you got what you paid for, but if you paid a fair new retail price for it then seek a partial refund.
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 9:08:50 AM EST

I just got off the phone with the dealer that I tracked down at the show.

He is refunding me the difference and was apologetic, really a stand up guy. It was his employee whom I actually dealt with and the owner wasn't aware of the deal.

I will even plug his name for those members that care to deal with him  It is Mark Sieh from Avoca Iowa

Alls well in this case I guess but like some of you said...new is new and had better be new!!!
Link Posted: 2/18/2001 10:20:03 AM EST
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