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Posted: 9/11/2004 4:08:51 PM EST
There I was, minding my own business trying to purchase a kayak at Sunrift's One Day Sale.



It was a large sale of all their rental equipment, and many had come for the same reason I did.

The commotion and gathering of outdoorsy types did not go unnoticed by the granola heads - they were there in force too. Booths, petitions, workers, mailing lists and postcards to mail Prez Bush to stop development of some Federal lands.

OK, I exaggerate a bit....

The tree huggers were all very nice. I spoke with several and they were all polite.

I explained I'm a tweener - I beleive in stewardship of the land, but I DO beleive the land should be used.

The proposed "use" was damming up a portion of a smaller local river, putting roads thru some national forest, some retirement dwellings along the soon to be formed lake at the dam. When tehy told me it would be logged, I asked "Clear cut or timber harvesting?"

They didn't know.

I took their info as something to investigate. I truly treasure our undeveloped spaces, but I had to remind myself, the very place the "eat a beaver save a tree" guy talking to me selling me on the Sierra Club was once "undeveloped"

When I said I beleive in "balance" one sun worshipper kinda rolled his eyes with a knowing smile - it was obvious he felt he had run into a "pave the globe like a parking lot" Bushite.

Chances are neither of us are the extremes we think each other are.

Balance, people. Balance. Progress, and protectionism.

Its weird really. These eco nutz want to drive cars on roads and paddle plastic kayaks in gear made by big mutli national corporations who pollute the environment, but Bush be damned if he do ANY of the development they presently enjoy.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 4:14:05 PM EST
I advocate protecting the environment - but I'm a far stretch from those freaks who sit in trees or those who burn new housing developments down. They're criminals no better than drug pushers.

Like you said - balance. I'm going to need a road to drive to my hunting and fishing spots.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 4:29:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:32:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:37:32 PM EST
ANYONE who is even remotely interested in the environment needs to buy and read the book called "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg


He's a former Greenpeace member who is a statistics professor, who actually decided to check the numbers and trends (based on official U.N., EPA, etc numbers) and discovered that much of what the "Environmentalists" claim is complete bullshit.

It's a fascinating book - and while he has been demonized, and some shameless people CLAIM to have disproven his findings, I have read all of the supposed claims, and NOBODY has mounted any serious challenge to any of his conclusions.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521010683/qid=1094956518/sr=8-1/ref=pd_cps_1/103-2555902-2068653?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:52:37 PM EST
I read something written by one of the founding members of greenpeace. He thinks that the modern day tree huggers are totally fucked in the head. He wrote about how they are anti trade (not just anti free trade), and anti human. One case he mentioned involved the disposal of an oil rig. The company was going to sink it forming an articicial reef for fish, but the tree huggers pissed up a storm. In the end, the company towed it back for on land disposal, which apparently impacts the environment more than the original plan would have.

Hoppy8420
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:01:41 PM EST
If you look hard enough, most green peace funders and backers are housing development contractors. They know if they freeze ability for other builders to build homes in places like Mexifornia, the land value will sky rocket.
It all really comes down to money, you just deal with the foot soldiers who cry over stepping on weeds.
Any real Conservative cares more about the enviroment then some city liberal who never steps one foot out of their air conditioned car into the "wilderness."
-Steve
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:02:15 PM EST
Don't go to NH.... those frickin tree hugging, conservationist pricks have a big foot in the door up there and screw up all kinds of shit.

YOu pretty well summed it up on that one.... tree huggers handing out post cards and flyers and all that crap. "Oh, well, it's on recycled paper".
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:06:27 PM EST
The word you are looking for to describe yourselves if "Conservationist".

That's how I view myself. Enviromentalists are the far out there wackos.

Some of those types had a reintroduce-the-wolf-to-it's-native-habitat-in-Colorado booth set up once.

My coworker stopped to see what was up. He got the spiel about wolves and was asked to sign a petition urging reintroduction. "Sure. I'll sign it. One more species I can hunt."

I guess the kid about had a coronary. But the older gent in the booth chuckled and admitted the kids don't usually think about that part.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:12:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 6:14:17 PM EST by FedGunner]

Originally Posted By garandman:
There I was, minding my own business trying to purchase a kayak at Sunrift's One Day Sale.

www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid139/p399338ae6eeca701e3693857bc7c25e0/f70d3ee4.jpg

It was a large sale of all their rental equipment, and many had come for the same reason I did.

The commotion and gathering of outdoorsy types did not go unnoticed by the granola heads - they were there in force too. Booths, petitions, workers, mailing lists and postcards to mail Prez Bush to stop development of some Federal lands.

OK, I exaggerate a bit....

The tree huggers were all very nice. I spoke with several and they were all polite.

I explained I'm a tweener - I beleive in stewardship of the land, but I DO beleive the land should be used.

The proposed "use" was damming up a portion of a smaller local river, putting roads thru some national forest, some retirement dwellings along the soon to be formed lake at the dam. When tehy told me it would be logged, I asked "Clear cut or timber harvesting?"

They didn't know.

I took their info as something to investigate. I truly treasure our undeveloped spaces, but I had to remind myself, the very place the "eat a beaver save a tree" guy talking to me selling me on the Sierra Club was once "undeveloped"

When I said I beleive in "balance" one sun worshipper kinda rolled his eyes with a knowing smile - it was obvious he felt he had run into a "pave the globe like a parking lot" Bushite.

Chances are neither of us are the extremes we think each other are.

Balance, people. Balance. Progress, and protectionism.

Its weird really. These eco nutz want to drive cars on roads and paddle plastic kayaks in gear made by big mutli national corporations who pollute the environment, but Bush be damned if he do ANY of the development they presently enjoy.




I'm too tired to do more than a +1 I agree....Harvesting is fine... clear cutting is not good.... save in a forest fire.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:15:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:15:47 PM EST
I got spiked on FR64 in the Lincoln NF last week. I pulled either a 12 or 10d corroded nail out of my right rear tire. All I know is it was a big MF'r, and i've had many flats due to nails, but nothing even close to this size.

I haven't spoken to the forest service about yet, but I do need to report it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:59:38 PM EST
Here's a pic. I guess it was a 12d, a 16d is there for comparison.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 7:59:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:02:19 PM EST
at least they didn't throw red paint or blood on you
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:24:34 AM EST
Bacl in 1991 me and 4 of my friends had the "pleasure" of coming across a "wired" road on Washington state DNR land while on our dirtbikes.
We were going down this old logging road at about 40mph, I was behind a father/son pair that were having a little dual betwen themselves.
All of the sudden the boy gets lifted off the bike and his old man suddenly stopped and crashed.
I had a split second to do something, so I went off the road and into the woods.
One of the guys behind be laid his bike down, the other guy was ablt to stop.

Strung across the road at chest height was a strand of piano wire.

When the kid hit it it was at his neck. He is lucky that his chest protector had a neck cover, and that his helmet caught the wire instead of his chin.
His dad had caught the wire right in the chest, his chest protector saved his ass from getting cut, but he did break a couple of ribs.
No one else was hurt.

We cut down the wire.

That put an end to a fun day enjoying PUBLIC land.

When we got back to the trucks we saw a couple of people on horseback (it used to be a mixed use area) and warned them about the wire booby-trap we ran across.

We stopped by the Forest Service office and reported what happened. They asked us to fill out a report and call the county sheriff.

The ranger who was working the desk and the sheriff both told us that they were having problems with the EarthFIRST! wackos in the area spiking trees, destroying trucks and tractors and setting wires across roads.

If I EVER catch me an EarthFIRST type I am going to beat the shit out of them.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:32:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I advocate protecting the environment - but I'm a far stretch from those freaks who sit in trees or those who burn new housing developments down. They're criminals no better than drug pushers.

Like you said - balance. I'm going to need a road to drive to my hunting and fishing spots.




There is a difference between protecting the enviornment, and using the enviornment.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:39:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By stevenb:
If you look hard enough, most green peace funders and backers are housing development contractors. They know if they freeze ability for other builders to build homes in places like Mexifornia, the land value will sky rocket.

Balls. You are going to have to substantiate that fucking tinfoil-hatted nonsense. And No, I am not doing your work for you - YOUR bullshit assertion, YOUR burden of proof.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:26:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
The ranger who was working the desk and the sheriff both told us that they were having problems with the EarthFIRST! wackos in the area spiking trees, destroying trucks and tractors and setting wires across roads.

If I EVER catch me an EarthFIRST type I am going to beat the shit out of them.


I've been an active dirt biker all my life and this sort of thing always bothered me. It hasn't happened yet, but alot of us were worried about it.

It's attempted murder.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:16:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By FedGunner:

Originally Posted By garandman:
There I was, minding my own business trying to purchase a kayak at Sunrift's One Day Sale.

www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid139/p399338ae6eeca701e3693857bc7c25e0/f70d3ee4.jpg

It was a large sale of all their rental equipment, and many had come for the same reason I did.

The commotion and gathering of outdoorsy types did not go unnoticed by the granola heads - they were there in force too. Booths, petitions, workers, mailing lists and postcards to mail Prez Bush to stop development of some Federal lands.

OK, I exaggerate a bit....

The tree huggers were all very nice. I spoke with several and they were all polite.

I explained I'm a tweener - I beleive in stewardship of the land, but I DO beleive the land should be used.

The proposed "use" was damming up a portion of a smaller local river, putting roads thru some national forest, some retirement dwellings along the soon to be formed lake at the dam. When tehy told me it would be logged, I asked "Clear cut or timber harvesting?"

They didn't know.

I took their info as something to investigate. I truly treasure our undeveloped spaces, but I had to remind myself, the very place the "eat a beaver save a tree" guy talking to me selling me on the Sierra Club was once "undeveloped"

When I said I beleive in "balance" one sun worshipper kinda rolled his eyes with a knowing smile - it was obvious he felt he had run into a "pave the globe like a parking lot" Bushite.

Chances are neither of us are the extremes we think each other are.

Balance, people. Balance. Progress, and protectionism.

Its weird really. These eco nutz want to drive cars on roads and paddle plastic kayaks in gear made by big mutli national corporations who pollute the environment, but Bush be damned if he do ANY of the development they presently enjoy.




I'm too tired to do more than a +1 I agree....Harvesting is fine... clear cutting is not good.... save in a forest fire.




Clear cutting does not hurt the environment! Trust me on this. I assists landowners daily, in the sale and harvesting of timber. Clear cutting, aside from the negative visual aspects, does not harm the environment what so ever.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:34:36 AM EST
Most enviromentalists are also anti-capitalists. Hence they have no use for sensible growth and are radical with most of their views.
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