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Posted: 10/22/2004 9:56:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 10:55:53 AM EDT by tjmz]
I thought my Poli Sci class could get no worse than it already is....but as life tends to offer up all kinds of comedy, it has done so again....

Today we were assigned to debate teams for upcoming debates. My position is Pro on the question of whether suspension of civil liberties is warranted. Now, I already have an idea on how to go about this....I am actually moderate on this position but I'm looking forward to learning new things in the process, and I am a good and effective debater, regardless of the position...However...

Upon meeting with my new teammates for 5 minutes, I can already tell this will be pure hell. Even a friend of mine who heard the conversation between us told me she thinks I will have problems in this group. First off...my teammates are raBidly liberal who have decided that only the Republicans are for suspending all civil liberties....the jokes have already started. All of them voiced their opinion that this will be extremely difficult bordering on impossible because there is no evidence whatsoever that can possibly support this position. They spent the whole time coming up with arguments that support the other side....and then spend the rest of the time bashing Republicans and the military and stated that the only "so-called" civil liberty that should be suspended is the "so-called" right to own guns. Banning guns, apparently, will solve all of our terrorist concerns....

On top of all this, our schedules conflict so that the only time available to meet as a group is on the weekends. Not one of them are willing to do this because that is their time to party and relax. My position is that we are in school and have to do what we have to do to get the job done; in the real world, if you have to work on the weekend to finish a project, you have to work on the weekend or you lose your job.

I am truly afraid that I am going to lose my sanity over this.....I need and want a good grade, but am afraid that I will end up doing all of the work. As we cannot choose our own groups, this is highly possible given my teammates seeming aversion to doing the work necessary. A friend of mine is trying to see if we can arrange a trade so that she gets into my group, but our prof doesn't know if he will allow it. GRRRRR.......

Edited because I cannot spell...
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:05:58 AM EDT
It's possible if you're the only one who can argue it effectively, the professor will see this and let you float while the rest of your team sinks. You could also speak to him about this problem and see if he can lend a hand.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:12:34 AM EDT
On the plus side, if this doesn't get resolved you have some great devil's advocates to practice your skilz on.

That's really the only positive I can see. My only advice would be to document your study meetings and ask the prof how you should proceed. Even if you have a left-wing commie bastard teacher, they will still see that this group is not on target, given the constraints of the project. The prof should either accomodate you somehow or get more hands on with your group to get them focused.

I don't envy your position, but since you mentioned "Real World" you know by now, this kind of crap happens in the workplace as well as school. Wait'll you run a project, do the work and watch others get the credit. Or work in pre-sales/sales support and watch some asshole saleman show off the car they bought with their commission that you earned for them.

Every situation is different, but in this case I'd nip it in the bud ASAP.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:45:31 AM EDT

...rapidly liberal...

Um, that would be "raBidly liberal," although they could just be very fast liberals, I guess.

{/grammar nazi}

Wasn't it Hitlery who said something like "We have to take some of your rights away for the common good?" If that isn't in reference to a suspension of liberties...
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:56:53 AM EDT
fixed Hardcase....sorry.....oh great master, I pledge to never make such a mistake again!!

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:07:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 1:08:06 PM EDT by daydreamer]
Neither liberals nor conservatives have a great record on civil liberties. Republicans freed the slaves and started the War on Drugs. Democrats stand up for privacy rights and make me a slave for 50% of my working day so they can redistribute my wealth to the people who vote for them. It's about money and power.

Power will be abused by most who seek it. That has been the history of the world. It's a cyclical thing.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:09:06 PM EDT
Either side will take your liberties.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:24:58 PM EDT
At least you had sanity to begin with?

Am I getting the jist of this assignment: You are required to argue a position whether you agree with it or not? You'd think this would be an opportunity for everyone involved to be more open-minded. Don't liberals love that crap? LOL

Feel free to vent away. This should be fun...
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:03:11 PM EDT
even if you work with them it will be pure hell and they will make things go harder for you, they will challenge you at every turn.

so make it easier on yourself and do the whole thing yourself, do the debate yourself, and give them a free pass. its gonna suck but will go quicker and be less stressful.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:24:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 12:52:29 AM EDT by Bucko]

Originally Posted By hardcase:
{/grammar nazi}

Would that be Nazi? It's a proper name.

Now to tjmz: I'm afraid you're screwed. I hate group projects because I wanted "A"s not just a passing grade so I could get to my "Legalize Hemp" rally, Bra'. I was always a social facilitator (did a lot of the work) because I wanted a good grade. My advice is similar to others: take notes about who does and doesn't do what. Go to the professor early, maybe even now and voice your concern about the resistence to weekend meetings. It's always been my experience that the profs will say something along the lines of:
"That's part of group work and you have to deal with it, Clark."
"It's Mark."
"Sure, whatever."

I know you didn't ask, but as for the debate a good point to bring up is the difference between "conveniences" and true "civil liberties".
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 11:34:26 AM EDT
Yeah Persephone, deal is that we could list our preferences but could not choose which side of the debate we wanted to be on. I actually wanted to be Pro on this question because I spend so much time concentrating on my own position, which is Con for the most part, that I rarely look at it from their point of view. I figured that this would give me a chance to stretch my skills a little and learn something at the same time.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 11:43:38 AM EDT
Good luck with yer debate!

I hated group projects in school. Even in college, this lowly (recovering) gear head would end up taking the point in a group of "enlightened" individuals and other academic wonder-boys and girls.

Seems the smarter people think they are, the less they are willing to help out their fellow student without regard for reward.

May I suggest, at some point, in your debate team, when the stress gets too much to bear, threaten the slackers with "pooper-pics" being taken and posted on the internet

If nothing else, they'll know you mean business.
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