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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:00:52 AM EDT by FunYun1983]
With the arival of the Number of the Beast. I wonderd just how many people believe in Hell, the Devil/Satan, or simply, a place of Eternal Damnation.

Do you believe that with the creation of the Univers that God created Hell, or did it already exist?

If he created it then why? Why would a great being who created us and wants us to spend eternity in a heavenly place, also send people to Hell?

If it already existed, but God still decided who should got to Heaven or Hell, then what kind of person or being sends someone to Hell? Yes, I would whish some people eternal damnation, but the list of sins is immense. Making it almost certain that you will sin. This requires that you either believe in God and beg for forgivness, or go to Hell.

To me, it seems like a simple scare tactic, fallow me or go to Hell.


NOW WITH POLL(for those who hate reading)
The real question is, why would such a great and powerful being, resort to threats of eternal damnation, to gain fallowers?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:55:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:04:11 AM EDT by California_Kid]
Hell is in the minds of people who are living in it. Damnation is a condition of the living, not of the dead.

It's also Olive Garden.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:56:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:57:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
With the arival of the Number of the Beast. I wonderd just how many people believe in Hell, the Devil/Satan, or simply, a place of Eternal Damnation.

Do you believe that with the creation of the Univers that God created Hell, or did it already exist?

If he created it then why? Why would a great being who created us and wants us to spend eternity in a heavenly place, also send people to Hell?

If it already existed, but God still decided who should got to Heaven or Hell, then what kind of person or being sends someone to Hell? Yes, I would whish some people eternal damnation, but the list of sins is immense. Making it almost certain that you will sin. This requires that you either believe in God and beg for forgivness, or go to Hell.

To me, it seems like a simple scare tactic, fallow me or go to Hell.

The real question is, why would such a great and powerful being, resort to threats of eternal damnation, to gain fallowers?




Post 666 eh?

And no, dont personally believe in it. That's how I can curse and use God's name in vain.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:00:04 AM EDT
Hell no!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:00:41 AM EDT
Hell exists... How else will child molesters, mass murderers and people who post silly polls be punished?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:02:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Hell exists... How else will child molesters, mass murderers and people who post silly polls be punished?



I feel all possible answers in a poll should never be wasted.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:03:30 AM EDT


With the arrival of the Number of the Trolls. I wondered just how many people believe in the BOTD in Team, the Moderators/Site Staff, or simply, a place of Eternal Sweater Puppies.

Do you believe that with the creation of the BOTD in Team, that EdSr created General Discussion, or did it already exist?

If he created it then why? Why would a great man who inspires us and wants us to spend eternity in a heavenly place, also send people to General Discussion?

If it already existed, but EdSr still decided who should go to BOTD in Team or General Discussion, then what kind of person or being sends someone to General Discussion? Yes, I would wish some people eternal bann..ment(?), but the list of COC violation is immense. Making it almost certain that you will violate COC. This requires that you either believe in EdSr and beg for forgiveness, or go to the Team forum.

To me, it seems like a simple scare tactic, follow the COC or be banned.

The real question is, why would such a great and powerful man, resort to threats of eternal bann..ment(?), to gain subscribers?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:03:39 AM EDT
I will believe in Hell in 08 if Hildebeast gets elected
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:03:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:04:21 AM EDT by Greenhorn]
Sort of, but I don't believe in it as most people believe in it. I don't think that people who don't go to church, or curse, or commit crimes, or don't believe in God go to hell. The God I read about in the bible wouldn't do that. I think that whatever hell is, it's where people go who do not want to be with God.

By the way, you're going to hell for posting that poll.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:12:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:


With the arrival of the Number of the Trolls. I wondered just how many people believe in the BOTD in Team, the Moderators/Site Staff, or simply, a place of Eternal Sweater Puppies.

Do you believe that with the creation of the BOTD in Team, that EdSr created General Discussion, or did it already exist?

If he created it then why? Why would a great man who inspires us and wants us to spend eternity in a heavenly place, also send people to General Discussion?

If it already existed, but EdSr still decided who should go to BOTD in Team or General Discussion, then what kind of person or being sends someone to General Discussion? Yes, I would wish some people eternal bann..ment(?), but the list of COC violation is immense. Making it almost certain that you will violate COC. This requires that you either believe in EdSr and beg for forgiveness, or go to the Team forum.

To me, it seems like a simple scare tactic, follow the COC or be banned.

The real question is, why would such a great and powerful man, resort to threats of eternal bann..ment(?), to gain subscribers?



This actualy fallows my logic that God is a creation of Humans. That is why God has so many human traits. Then again, maybe God is just playing a version of The Sims with us.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:14:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wraithtouch:
I will believe in Hell in 08 if Hildebeast gets elected



Believe in it? We'll be in Hell at that point.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:16:16 AM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:16:27 AM EDT
Nope..no heaven, no hell...when you die you die..taking a dirt bath, six feet under, pushing up daisies, ect...
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:19:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:24:33 AM EDT
You don't find references to a "burning hell" until later translations of the bible. Early ones describe an eternal sleep or ceassation of existence.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:36:23 AM EDT
In the words of Frank Zappa, "There is no place such as Hell-there is only France."
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:38:17 AM EDT
yep
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:43:12 AM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:43:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:44:56 AM EDT by BenP]
I think for those that beleive, it will be different for each person. Kinda personalized torment and anguish.

I feel that it would be like standing in a line that goes no-where. 120 degrees. No breeze. Surrounded by fat girls that smell like a deli and all I have to drink is a never ending case of piss warm Pabst.

Scary enough for me to try and be a decent person.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:46:25 AM EDT
I was married for 16 years to a psycho. Yes...there is a hell.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

I was married for 16 years to a psycho. Yes...there is a hell.



I got off easy. Only 10 years and the first 7 weren't bad.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:49:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wraithtouch:
I will believe in Hell in 08 if Hildebeast gets elected



Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:51:06 AM EDT
this is the year of 6/06/06,,,,,,,,,,,June 6th of 2006,,,,which is D Day Normandy 1944
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:51:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
With the arival of the Number of the Beast.



did you get a telegram, email or a phonecall? or did you just name your newborn "the number of the beast" ?

inquiring minds dont want to know...
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:53:19 AM EDT
I am real.

_________________________



Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:55:44 AM EDT
Why did God create hell? I'm sure there is a more in depth answer, and really, I'm not a scholar, nor did I stay at a holiday in express.

If you're Catholic, like myself, then this is the best explanation...

Before God created man, there was just God, and the Angels. Perhaps you've heard about the battle for Heaven, where certain Angels, lead by Lucifer (or St. Lucifer, as he was an Angel), rose up against God. God's army, lead by St. Michael, the Archangel, defeated Lucifer. He and all his followers were cast out of Heaven.

They in turn were sent to Hell. Did God create Hell, or did Satan create Hell. Was Hell already there, and God just expelled them there, I dunno.

A lot of good quotes come from movies.. in this case, one is asked if they believe in Satan. They say they don't. In turn, they're told "well you should, because he believes in you."

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:56:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:57:24 AM EDT by TheCynic]


L'enfer, c'est les autres

- Jean-Paul Sartre

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:09:47 AM EDT
i know the answer, i just don't feel like going to all the trouble to tell you.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:12:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 10:14:07 AM EDT by Zaphod]
Hell exists. It is a place without the presence of God.

It is where people who foresake or reject Him are sent. In other words, He gives them exactly what they want.

Do I have proof? Nope.

All I know is that I am not going there; not because I'm good, but rather because I have not foresaken God. He'll take care of the rest for me, despite my (incredibly numerous) failings.

There it is.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:18:35 AM EDT
Hell is an invention to keep people in line and church coffers full. It is a great scam and you can not prove them wrong because you are dead.

No I am totally against big-brother and marking people like cattle, but IMHO religion is just another form of slavery. Everyone needs a red pill....
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:22:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flakchak:
Why did God create hell? I'm sure there is a more in depth answer, and really, I'm not a scholar, nor did I stay at a holiday in express.

If you're Catholic, like myself, then this is the best explanation...

Before God created man, there was just God, and the Angels. Perhaps you've heard about the battle for Heaven, where certain Angels, lead by Lucifer (or St. Lucifer, as he was an Angel), rose up against God. God's army, lead by St. Michael, the Archangel, defeated Lucifer. He and all his followers were cast out of Heaven.

They in turn were sent to Hell. Did God create Hell, or did Satan create Hell. Was Hell already there, and God just expelled them there, I dunno.
A lot of good quotes come from movies.. in this case, one is asked if they believe in Satan. They say they don't. In turn, they're told "well you should, because he believes in you."




Do you not know or is this simply not explaind in the religion?


I guess the next logical question is, why is Hell worse than Heaven? Has it ever been shown that someone has gone to Hell and come back to speak ill of it, or is it assumed bad, or God said that it is bad?

Obviously I have had no religious teachings. While my grandparents on both sides of my family are religious, all but 1 of my aunt and uncles are no where near as religious if at all as my granparents. Though, that 1 is a missionary in Ecuador.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:25:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:26:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sigarkar:
i know the answer, i just don't feel like going to all the trouble to tell you.




Why bother posting this?

Do you think that God wants you to keep Heaven to yourself, or spread his teachings and provide salvation to all people?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:33:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
I guess the next logical question is, why is Hell worse than Heaven?



Jesus makes some very specific statements about hell in the Bible, specifically referring to it as a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", and also as a "furnace of fire". Matthew 8, 13, 22, 24, and 25 contain a sampling of Jesus' statements about hell.

Revelations speaks more about it.

The descriptions seem to represent it as a rather nasty place, if you ask me....
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:38:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
Do you not know or is this simply not explaind in the religion?



Jesus explicitly states that hell was created for Satan and the angels that joined with him in the great heavenly rebellion in Matthew 25:41.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:42:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By sigarkar:
i know the answer, i just don't feel like going to all the trouble to tell you.




Why bother posting this?

Do you think that God wants you to keep Heaven to yourself, or spread his teachings and provide salvation to all people?



I actually thought my comment would go untouched.

anyways. i went into this topic at a bit of length in the religion forum. I am a christian universalist. i do not believe in hell. hell is a pagan myth. hel is some type of goddess of the underworld in pagan mythology (google it w/ one L). early christian belief included universalism. in the greek orthodox church it is called apokatostasis (sp?). hell entered into the church 400-500 years after christ was crucified. yes, i believe in christ. but not for your reasons. words were translated incorrectly many, many years ago and then doctrine was formed. For instance. the phrase Forever and ever would more accurately be translated For the Eon of the Eons. Just a quick look at those two phrases shows some problems in structure. Furthermore, and Eon, at the tine the gospels were written, meant a limited span of time, not unlimited. Are you starting to see some problems w/ the translation and interpretation? It would be more productive to google christian universalism than just rely on what you find on this board. it's interesting, but takes a great deal of time to understand. It did for me anyways. I had to overcome my conditioning and deal w/ the facts available.

So, i wasn't going to touch it. There is so much i could say, but so little I am able to.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:42:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
Yes, I would whish some people eternal damnation, but the list of sins is immense. Making it almost certain that you will sin. This requires that you either believe in God and beg for forgivness, or go to Hell.



My understanding is, from all of the Christians on this board, that going to Heaven or Hell has nothing to do with whatever sins you may or may not have committed. Christianity considers all men to be cursed by Adam and Eve's original sin, and therefore to have sinned, even if they haven't committed an actual sin their entire life. No, going to Heaven or Hell depends solely on your acceptance of Christ as your savior. According to some, if you are living in a remote village in China and have never heard of Christ, you will still go to Hell, because you haven't accepted him as your saviour, no matter what you did in your life.

Personally, I don't necessarily reject the existence of a God, but I don't believe in any particular religion. IMHO, they all sound like they were made up by people who want to believe that there's something out there, and that they go somewhere when they die. I can understand wanting to believe in it, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

No offense, of course, if you want to believe in it. At worst, it's harmlessly wacky. It's certainly not like Communism or anything, which has killed over 100 million people this century, and enslaved and oppressed billions more. But that's a different topic.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:46:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mace:
My understanding is, from all of the Christians on this board, that going to Heaven or Hell has nothing to do with whatever sins you may or may not have committed. Christianity considers all men to be cursed by Adam and Eve's original sin, and therefore to have sinned, even if they haven't committed an actual sin their entire life.



While theoretically true, there is no person on earth who has comitted no sin in their life except Jesus.




No, going to Heaven or Hell depends solely on your acceptance of Christ as your savior. According to some, if you are living in a remote village in China and have never heard of Christ, you will still go to Hell, because you haven't accepted him as your saviour, no matter what you did in your life.



Jesus said that He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and that no man comes unto The Father except by Him. That is where that aspect of Christian belief comes from...
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:47:06 AM EDT
Yes, hell most certainly exists

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:48:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
Yes, hell most certainly exists

wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/images/usa/new-jersey.jpg



Just got a call about a job opportunity there.

Gag me.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:53:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Supposedly that was a mistranslation and it's really 696 or somesuch.


Its not, trust me. The number 666 is found in the Bible as being associated with evil perhaps half a dozen times so that there would be no confusion.


(Rev 13:18) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Here is one of the more obvious ones:

(1Ki 10:14) Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,

(1Ti 6:10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.



Here are two subtle ones:

(Dan 3:1) Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.


Goliath (a type of Satan) had six pieces of armor, was six cubits and a span tall, and a spearhead weighing six hundred shekels.

1Sa 17:4-7
(4) And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
(5) And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass.
(6) And he had greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders.
(7) And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:39:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By mace:
My understanding is, from all of the Christians on this board, that going to Heaven or Hell has nothing to do with whatever sins you may or may not have committed. Christianity considers all men to be cursed by Adam and Eve's original sin, and therefore to have sinned, even if they haven't committed an actual sin their entire life.



While theoretically true, there is no person on earth who has comitted no sin in their life except Jesus.



I know, I'm just pointing out that one of the fundamental tenants of Christianity is that we are all sinners, and can only be saved through Christ.





No, going to Heaven or Hell depends solely on your acceptance of Christ as your savior. According to some, if you are living in a remote village in China and have never heard of Christ, you will still go to Hell, because you haven't accepted him as your saviour, no matter what you did in your life.



Jesus said that He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and that no man comes unto The Father except by Him. That is where that aspect of Christian belief comes from...




It seems to be a popular belief that people who have been good go to Heaven, and people who have been bad go to Hell, or that it's based on what sins you have committed in your life. The OP seems to think so. Whenever I hear this, I try to point out that it isn't consistent with Christianity. IMHO, if you're going to claim to be a Christian, at least know what your religion is all about. I'm not a Christian, and I know the basics well enough.

This may belong in the Religion forum, though I think it would sound kinda trollish, but I was just thinking - what about small children? They aren't old enough to understand the concepts of Christianity, or to accept Jesus as their savior. Do they therefore go to Hell when they die?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:07:48 PM EDT
Why would God create a hell?
God is JUST in all his works.
He does not test you or cause bad thing to happen to you.
And he get all the blame.
"Why did God do this!"
"Why did God take my daughter!"

Bullshit there is no hell. Think of it: If one lived all his/her life on this (God given) earth. And commited sins during there time here. That person should pay for their sins. Right!? Ok lets say that person lived 18 years. 18 years would do not eternity.

Come on "An eye for an eye." it has to equal out. it say so in the bible.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:27:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 3:30:32 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By mace:
This may belong in the Religion forum, though I think it would sound kinda trollish, but I was just thinking - what about small children? They aren't old enough to understand the concepts of Christianity, or to accept Jesus as their savior. Do they therefore go to Hell when they die?



There is a concept called "the age of accountability" where a person is capable of understanding their actions and the remedy for sins. Most Christians believe that those who do not reach this point of understanding are still covered by the grace of God.

The age is not a specific number, but rather a point in life where they are capable of grasping the concept of sin and salvation. The age varries with the individual. Some people could be accountable at very young ages, and some people (mentally retarded) might never reach that age.

In our society and judgement we do not hold someone criminally responsible for actions they cannot understand are wrong. We take into account mental handicap and I don't think God is any less just than we are.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:29:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JackieTreehorn:
Why would God create a hell?
God is JUST in all his works.
He does not test you or cause bad thing to happen to you.
And he get all the blame.
"Why did God do this!"
"Why did God take my daughter!"

Bullshit there is no hell. Think of it: If one lived all his/her life on this (God given) earth. And commited sins during there time here. That person should pay for their sins. Right!? Ok lets say that person lived 18 years. 18 years would do not eternity.

Come on "An eye for an eye." it has to equal out. it say so in the bible.



While there is a passage that says "an eye for an eye" there are numerous other passages that speak of a place of eternal awareness apart from God in very unpleasant conditions.

You have to take the whole work into consideration rather than just pieces of it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:20:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

While there is a passage that says "an eye for an eye" there are numerous other passages that speak of a place of eternal awareness apart from God in very unpleasant conditions.

You have to take the whole work into consideration rather than just pieces of it.



there is speak of Gehenna: which was a trash heap out side the city Jerusalem. Gehenna was burnned around the clock in order to keep waste at a minimum. this is what people misinterpret as hell.
What happens when trash is burned? It burns up and there is no more trash, thats it!
No eternal damnation.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:54:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By mace:
This may belong in the Religion forum, though I think it would sound kinda trollish, but I was just thinking - what about small children? They aren't old enough to understand the concepts of Christianity, or to accept Jesus as their savior. Do they therefore go to Hell when they die?



There is a concept called "the age of accountability" where a person is capable of understanding their actions and the remedy for sins. Most Christians believe that those who do not reach this point of understanding are still covered by the grace of God.

The age is not a specific number, but rather a point in life where they are capable of grasping the concept of sin and salvation. The age varries with the individual. Some people could be accountable at very young ages, and some people (mentally retarded) might never reach that age.

In our society and judgement we do not hold someone criminally responsible for actions they cannot understand are wrong. We take into account mental handicap and I don't think God is any less just than we are.



The age of accountability is nowhere mentioned in scripture (yes, I know you already know this). I have not seen it implied either. It seems like huge assumption to believe that it is true.

This belief strikes me because it could quite easily be used to justify abortion. If a person believes in a traditional Hell (which I don't), you could guarantee every child a place in heaven by aborting them. This would avoid the later problematic issue of saving them from Hell. Considering most the world is "lost", a person could really stoke up heaven by supporting abortion. No, I'm not trolling. I'm just saying............
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:11:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sigarkar:
The age of accountability is nowhere mentioned in scripture (yes, I know you already know this). I have not seen it implied either. It seems like huge assumption to believe that it is true.



There are some things the Bible is crystal clear on, there are some things the Bible is kind of fuzzy on, and there are some things it is silent on.

The age of accountability isn't a clear scriptural mandate, but it seems consistent with Jesus' charachter.



This belief strikes me because it could quite easily be used to justify abortion.



No it can't.



If a person believes in a traditional Hell (which I don't), you could guarantee every child a place in heaven by aborting them. This would avoid the later problematic issue of saving them from Hell.



While the innocent would indeed escape hell, those who murder the innocent would still be guilty of murder.



Considering most the world is "lost", a person could really stoke up heaven by supporting abortion. No, I'm not trolling. I'm just saying............



You're thinking on the matter is utterly incorrect.

Heaven does not rejoice at abortions because babies can't grow up to be in hell. Innocent blood has a voice before God and it demands justice.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:12:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JackieTreehorn:
there is speak of Gehenna: which was a trash heap out side the city Jerusalem. Gehenna was burnned around the clock in order to keep waste at a minimum. this is what people misinterpret as hell.
What happens when trash is burned? It burns up and there is no more trash, thats it!
No eternal damnation.



Except that Jesus told parables that specifically show existence and torment after death, and other passages speak of the same thing.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:03:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wraithtouch:
I will believe in Hell in 08 if Hildebeast gets elected



Wouldn't that be "Hell on Earth" ? Or was that your meaning? (AND< AFAIC... IF that occurs, it's the fault of Bush Supporters (IF Kerry had been elected (Terrible, but IMO, the klesser of 2 evils) he'd DEFINITELT have been a 1 termer.... and FEMA likely would have bungled the LA/MS Katrina as badly... etc). AND Hitlery wouldn't have run against KErry (successfully) and she'd have lost all most of her "umph" by 2012... and wouldn't have been elected.

I'm just sayin'
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