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Posted: 2/23/2006 6:27:33 PM EDT
I ran across some photos from a few years ago.

I went to the Bondurant "Lap The Oval" school - what a blast!

We got class room studies to learn cornering, braking, speed control, wieght dynamics, etc, and then we got to do some driving in formula fords.

Me in the cockpit:


And on the track:


Returning from acceleration and brake training:


A big grin afterwords:


If you love racing you really should try one of these schools some day - it's a blast!!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:29:19 PM EDT

Have you ever gone to a racing school?

Yes, but for Motorcycle

Want to do Bondurant and others; also want to do that Fighter Jet thing (fighterjetusa or something)
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:30:42 PM EDT
If you go to a racing school does that make you a racist?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:32:57 PM EDT
I went to a California Superbike School in 1983 at Willow Springs.
I also went to a new riders school with the ARRA in 1983 at Willow Springs and at Riverside Raceway.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:34:46 PM EDT
Not yet.....but it is high on my list.

We, me and my buddies, are going to try to work it in next year.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:10:20 PM EDT
I've never done the ones where they supply the cars, but I've done a shitload of track days where you use your own car, and last summer I went to a 3-day class on the Nurburgring in Germany, hosted by BMW club of Germany. Used a sweet little BMW 116i rental car for that one.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:14:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSneak:
I've never done the ones where they supply the cars, but I've done a shitload of track days where you use your own car, and last summer I went to a 3-day class on the Nurburgring in Germany, hosted by BMW club of Germany. Used a sweet little BMW 116i rental car for that one.




did you get to do the straightaway? when I went there (cars, motorcycles, tourbuses on the track ALL AT THE SAME TIME ), the straightaway was closed off (I think it is normally that way though)
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:17:27 PM EDT
I signed up for a school day with 2fast (motorcycle) next month.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:19:45 PM EDT
no, but i've wanted to for years!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:26:54 PM EDT
I went to the Skip Barber (?) school in Sebring FL about 6 years ago. Scared the shit out of me. I just learned that I really didn't know how to drive like a race car driver. Most guys think they are much better drivers than they are.

All that heel & toe, all on the gas or all on the brakes, trail braking and crap just got me confused.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:27:54 PM EDT
EVOC

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:58:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By TheSneak:
I've never done the ones where they supply the cars, but I've done a shitload of track days where you use your own car, and last summer I went to a 3-day class on the Nurburgring in Germany, hosted by BMW club of Germany. Used a sweet little BMW 116i rental car for that one.




did you get to do the straightaway? when I went there (cars, motorcycles, tourbuses on the track ALL AT THE SAME TIME ), the straightaway was closed off (I think it is normally that way though)



Yeah, during regular tourist laps the straight isn't useable, because in the middle of it is where you pull in and out of the track at the cafe and tollbooth area.

The way the school worked was the track was broken into sections, and the people into groups. Each group would do a section over and over for an hour or so, and then move to the next section. During these sessions, the straight was used for some exercises, such as driving a slalom both normally and while wearing "drunk" goggles, and an exercise called "leaning against the barriers" where you would take a worn-out test car that had been donated by BMW and scrape it against the barrier on purpose to practice saving your ass with the maneuver if you had a brake failure. Unfortunately for us, the test cars had been destroyed by the time it was our turn, so we did braking drills. During lunchtime each day, and for several hours on the third day, the track was open for free laps and the straight was wide open. Poor little BMW 116i (120hp!)couldn't really do much on there however, since it's gently uphill. The highest speed I managed with it was 200kph at the bottom of the dip in Fuchsrohre, after hitting the turn before it perfectly, followed by scaring the crap out of myself and my driving partner in the following turn.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:02:38 PM EDT
I've done the same Bondurant "Lap the Oval" school out at PIR. Possibly the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:03:46 PM EDT
Our trusty steed, courtesy of the fine folks at Avis who thought issuing discount cards to members of something called the "National Auto Sport Association" was a good idea:



Cars parked in the Carousel:

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:06:53 PM EDT
I really want to go!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:09:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Illinigunner21:
I really want to go!



You're in luck, Mid-Ohio is pretty close to you. You can get into entry level driver's ed with your own car for not too much money.

www.racenasa.com/
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:17:16 PM EDT


It's a crappy pic, but this is just after 11 laps in a Winston Cup Stock car at the Texas Motors Speedway with the Team Texas High Performance Driving School.
The cars had rev limiters at 160mph, and it is fun to hit that limit in turn 3.

Jim
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:26:13 PM EDT
If you don't wanna spend the coin for a big name school, look up and join a local chapeter of the BMW CCA, Porsche Club or Audi club, I'm sure there are similar schools for vettes etc... but they put on schools at local tracks for ususally under ~$250-$300. I did a BMWCCA school at Heartland Park and had a blast. You learn all the same things. Def. worth it.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:46:59 AM EDT
I've done California Superbike with Keith Code. Would love to take a Bondurant class.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:48:56 AM EDT
If you thought lap the oval was fun, you should take their SCCA liscence class.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:52:27 AM EDT
Done a couple, very addicting. Awesome .
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:57:42 AM EDT
Yes.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:00:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 9:05:02 AM EDT by MillerSHO]



All that heel & toe, all on the gas or all on the brakes, trail braking and crap just got me confused.



Heh, you'd be surprised what you could learn just playingthe newest racing simulators then without the reservations of crashing.

I've learned so much myself, I can't wait to go a racing school one of these days.

Trail braking is a lesson in who has the balls to brake late and brake into a turn and turn while they brake, I know I would have never learned that technique in real life first.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:02:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Friendly_Sponge:
I've done the same Bondurant "Lap the Oval" school out at PIR. Possibly the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on...



Ya too bad the oval is no longer here.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:08:17 AM EDT
Yes. I went through a WERA roadracing school in 1990 and raced Mid-Atlantic WERA as well as AMA-CCS series from 1990 to 1993....then I got married.
It was fun while it lasted and racing at Daytona was a blast, but I couldn't afford the time or the money any more.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:24:12 AM EDT
Bondurant is probably the best.

It is expensive as hell, but from what I understand it is worth every penny.

If I hit the lottery or a rich old guy dies and leaves me money, the FIRST thing I am going to do for me is go out there and take EVERY course he offers.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:31:53 AM EDT
Yes, still hold my European issued International FIA License to drive just about everything but F1
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:34:06 AM EDT
Trail braking is not the same as late braking. They are related to each other, but you can do either without the other.

The key to going fast is timing, smoothness and consistancy. They all go together.



Originally Posted By MillerSHO:



All that heel & toe, all on the gas or all on the brakes, trail braking and crap just got me confused.



Heh, you'd be surprised what you could learn just playingthe newest racing simulators then without the reservations of crashing.

I've learned so much myself, I can't wait to go a racing school one of these days.

Trail braking is a lesson in who has the balls to brake late and brake into a turn and turn while they brake, I know I would have never learned that technique in real life first.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:39:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 9:42:19 AM EDT by mm34b]
Yes, went to a four day road racing course at Virginia International Raceway www.virclub.com. Had a Formula Ford.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:50:37 AM EDT
We certainly didn't think so, but looking back there was only one black kid in my high school and.....

Oops a racing school.

Sorry

Uh, no.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:06:33 AM EDT
Yup, I've been to a couple.

One was the Bridgstone racing school up in Canada. Had a freakin BLAST. Similar cars to the Bondurant school.

BTW, it's where I first learned how ridiculous it is to say that a automobile racer is not an athlete.

Driving those cars at speed on a roadracing circuit was one of the most physically demanding things I have ever done. Not to mention the incredible mental fatigue of maintaining razor sharp focus and split second decision making over an extended period of time.

Regarding that, a quick funny story. Because we made good time during the day, we were given a extra session at the end of the day. So a bunch of guys pumped up on adredaline and testosterone would be stolked, right?

To a man, every person let out a groan, like 'oh, shit. we gotta go out there again?'

We all laughed and got a big kick out of it.

Also did a Keith Code motorcycle school out in CA. That was also a blast, and I probably learned more in one day than I had in 10 previous years of riding.

Also did the Richard Petty thing. That was pretty fun too, but they don't let you go fast enough to really get the juices flowing. I remember you had to stay right on the lead man's bumper in the right position, or they would slow down because they figured you didn't have the control of the car you needed. I kept right where I was supposed to be the whole time, and I'm SCREAMING inside my helmet to GO GO! Wouldn't let you go any faster though, and it was frustrating.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:22:41 AM EDT
I attended Skip Barber Racing School for three days....nothing beats Laguna Seca.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:10:43 AM EDT
will be sending the kids to a performance driving school in a few years, there're only six now
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:23:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 11:24:45 AM EDT by XD_Fan]

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
Yes.





Turn two at Sears Point!!!! Nice pic.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:31:00 AM EDT
I'm not an exprt so I'm not going to come back with the attitude "I know all" so keep an open mind here with me.

From my understand and how I do it at least on my simulators is instead of braking completely before the turn and then turning into the turn a trail brake invloves braking slightly later then usual so that you end up coming off the brakes at the beginning of your initial turn in and then quickly transition into the gas through the beginning of the apex.

It's not a power slide but a super controlled slight slide of weight that ends up putting the perfect traction on the wheels that need the most traction.

In all my lack of knowledge of racing a trail brake IMO is almost like a turning phenomenon.
I don't even understand why it does what it does to the car.

Trail braking is the only successful way to even get a FWD car around a race track with a decent time.
If you know someone who has a mini cooper and knows how to trail brake, don't race them on a twisty track that 4 banger will smoke even the most powerful cars on a twisty race track with the right driver.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:32:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
Yes.
members.aol.com/_ht_a/Fiat124Coupe/race-sp-3-27-prof-photo.jpg




Turn two at Sears Point!!!! Nice pic.



IS that an Alpha GTA?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:40:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
Yes.
members.aol.com/_ht_a/Fiat124Coupe/race-sp-3-27-prof-photo.jpg




Turn two at Sears Point!!!! Nice pic.



IS that an Alpha GTA?



No GD Alfa, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. 1970 or 71. 1608 Twin Cam, 5 sp, 4 whl disc. Look some much better without the bumper over riders. SCCA ITC. I had an ITC Plymouth Arrow 1600. Also did the motorcycle RR thing for 7 races and 2 track days before life and a trail riding injury killed me. Life without motorsports sucks . I did win my last race though . TGPR 98

rj
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:43:15 AM EDT
I used to work with/know a guy that drove like an asshole and maniac. He claimed it was ok because he went to racing school when he was a teenager because he had a fast car and his parents made him go.

By his logic I should be able to pull my gun on people to get my way whenever I feel like it because I have taken a CCW course.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:51:07 AM EDT
Never taken a racing course, but I have driven a rented car before.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:54:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
oldTurn two at old Sears Point!!!! Nice pic.



IS that an Alpha GTA?good guess though


No GD Alfa, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. 1970 or 71. 1608 Twin Cam, 5 sp, 4 whl disc. Look some much better without the bumper over riders. SCCA ITC.


It's a '70. And the bumper overriders have come in handy.
I might not make it this season, the car is down for a rebuild and I'm repainting it in the old Alitalia racing livery.
I also need new belts, net, helmet and tires(always), ect....
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:55:40 AM EDT
Yup, it was sponsored by Mazda and it was FUN!!!

Gives a whole new perspective on what a driver actually sees on the track, versus what the fans in the stands see.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:57:54 AM EDT
When I did my SCCA school at Road Atlanta in [ lets see, framed certificate is right over my desk ] 2-6-94 it drizzeled rain on and off the whole weekend. I had already been running Solo 1 at Road A since 87 and doing Corvette Club events there so I knew my way around pretty good. I also had some dirt midget and MX experience so driving in slick conditions was no biggie. I had a BLAST . Others did not have as much fun. There were a bunch of cars torn up that weekend and when you do that you don't get credit for the school. With my prior experience I got signed off in one school.

I would be on the racing line hauling ass and I would look over and there would be somebody totally lost, totally off line. Of course when the track changed directions they would be on the green bits doing some "agricultural racing".

rj
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:16:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Never taken a racing course, but I have driven a rented car before.



Those come special from the factory - throw in reverse (still going forward), overspeed across train tracks, makes speedbumps non-existant; these are just some of the things that rental cars are capable of .
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:17:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
]
It's a '70. And the bumper overriders have come in handy.
.
I also need new belts, net, helmet and tires(always), ect....



SCCA is so frigging hateful with their safety bs.

From 89 to 95 I had a fab shop and specialized in roll cages and any kind of race car fab work but mostly SCCA and mini stock although I eventually priced myself out of that market. Did a pretty good bit of vintage and drag cars and a few roundy rounds. Quite a few Pro Rally and autocross. By the time I decided to go IT racing I was burned out but really didn't realize it. Did the school and one race and said f&*k it. Too much blocking and crap. Half the time it's somebody not even in your class !!!

There was this one joker in a GD TR7 that blocked me at the SCHOOL ?!?!? He had just enough power to pull away on straights and then at the next apex there the f%^ker would be. Then I go to the first Road A Pro IT race and BLAM there the joker is again. I had even put ITC on the front of the car so the slower ITB cars would let me go. Didn't work. After the race I was really popping and banging . In impound I went up to him and asked him about it and he said 'hey we were racing'. What a dumbass. Me and another ITC car had a good dice going until we caught that idiot. Then he split us up.

On the way home I said I had to spend money on the tires and motor or this was going to happen every race. It just wasn't worth it racing for $100 or $150 to go out and spend another $2500. This was a 'real' IT car. I still drove it to work all lettered up. I wrote off all my racing expenses as advertising for the business. Totally legit. Still have to make the money .

I had a 70 124 SC along with a zillion other Fiats. I used to get to drive some pretty cool stuff like the one in the painting below. I drove it at a track day at Charlotte.

rj



Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:19:11 PM EDT
Have always wanted to
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:34:38 PM EDT
In motorcycle racing trail braking is keeping your brakes on during the corner.
Light rear brake keeps the rear end "settled" and keeps the front suspension a little bit extended.
With the front you keep the brake on very lightly, it helps to keep the forks compressed during the turn.
If you use the rear brake to kick the rear end out that's not trail braking.



Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I'm not an exprt so I'm not going to come back with the attitude "I know all" so keep an open mind here with me.

From my understand and how I do it at least on my simulators is instead of braking completely before the turn and then turning into the turn a trail brake invloves braking slightly later then usual so that you end up coming off the brakes at the beginning of your initial turn in and then quickly transition into the gas through the beginning of the apex.

It's not a power slide but a super controlled slight slide of weight that ends up putting the perfect traction on the wheels that need the most traction.

In all my lack of knowledge of racing a trail brake IMO is almost like a turning phenomenon.
I don't even understand why it does what it does to the car.

Trail braking is the only successful way to even get a FWD car around a race track with a decent time.
If you know someone who has a mini cooper and knows how to trail brake, don't race them on a twisty track that 4 banger will smoke even the most powerful cars on a twisty race track with the right driver.


Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:46:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 3:53:37 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
What I'm speaking of isn't kicking the tail out.



Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:52:02 PM EDT
Yes, motorcycle roadracing school. Raced as an amateur in CCS 1996. Sucked at it, but was a blast!! Couldn't afford to keep doing it.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:59:14 PM EDT
My sister works for Richard Petty Driving Experience, I worked there at one time too.

Great place.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:07:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MadMardigan:
My sister works for Richard Petty Driving Experience, I worked there at one time too.

Great place.



motorcycles, mostly at road atlanta, keith code, a suzuki school and a few others. road atlanta on a bike, especially before they filled in gravity cavity was an experience unlike any other.

i've been on road atlanta in a couple of cars perhaps two laps each time. guy rented a track. i went along, he let me drive his car with him in it around twice, an nsx and a 300zx.

nothing compares with bikes as far as im concerned for thrills. i cannot get close to using the full potential of a liter bike on a road course. but it is fun. and scrary.

was on road atlanta one time and box turtles kept crossing the raceway. even saw a deer once...
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:16:52 PM EDT
It's not a lot of fun when those race car driver teachers with an attitude gets pissy with you because you don't catch on too fast and hurts your feelings.
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