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Posted: 1/10/2003 4:02:22 AM EST
Lately I have seen too many examples of PC responses and even PC threads... Who else thinks the point of a DISCUSSION is to present DIFFERING opinions to learn and understand CONTRASTING perspectives? IMO, the PC crap only serves to limit the debate and reduce input thereby preventing truly understanding the issues presented.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:10:50 AM EST
Look, I don't think it ought to be blasphemy, just saying "Jehovah" [:D] J.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:11:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 4:13:29 AM EST by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:16:08 AM EST
I wonder who's thread inspired this one to be created [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:18:33 AM EST
Damn straight! We haven't had anyone leave the Board in a huff in a long time! Maybe a week or so! It still amazes me how many classic liberal (BULLSHIT) viewpoints I see floating around here that have been disguised as 'pro-Constitution' or 'pro-American' views! Those folks are clueless. If I find out that I am on the same side of an argument as, say, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA), then it's [u]my[/u] viewpoint that needs to be reviewed! We already know hers! Eric The(ArchConservative)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:19:51 AM EST
Just look at the names of those who replied... Juggernaut, Doublefeed, M4_Aiming_at_U, Hun. Want more politically uncorrect?
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:23:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:26:09 AM EST
IBTL!
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:39:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:46:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:58:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:59:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:03:25 AM EST
The term "politically (in)correct" is really starting to get on my nerves. Being respectful to someone has nothing to do with being PC. It has to do with common fucking decency. There are ways to make a point without being an asshole. My answer is NO, but all viewpoints do allow a fuller understanding of a topic.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:09:16 AM EST
Well... what do you mean by PC? Point me in the right direction cuz I'd like to read some examples of what I should be afraid of [:O] I mean there's being anti-PC and then there's being a "88". If you've got something intriguing to say, and can come off as being halfway intelligent, I'm all ears (a sense of humor helps too). But, if you want to rally your wagons around sophomoric racial epithets or some "news report" hot linked from a pseudo-racist web page - you’re a complete waste of bandwidth. Oh, and anyone that wants to tell me that "Truth is hate to those that hate the truth" (or any variation of those words) can go felate a rottweiler.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:15:47 AM EST
With the exception of posts that rip on the board and overt racism, I don't think being PC is going to get us anywhere. In case you didn't realize, being PC is half the problem for gun owners. Its very un-PC to own a firearm, no matter ADMIT to it. Fuck PC. Common courtesy and decency? Always.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:35:49 AM EST
funny that "racism" always comes up as a sacred cow... It depends of course on "the kind" of racism... this is an example of PC speech.... It sure as heck didnt exist 45 yrs ago
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:07:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: It still amazes me how many classic liberal (BULLSHIT) viewpoints I see floating around here that have been disguised as 'pro-Constitution' or 'pro-American' views!
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"Classic" Liberalism has very little to do with the modern socialist Liberalism. We could say that "Classic" Conservatism is the idea that things should be kept pretty much the same as they are.... conserving things the way they are. So, then, "Classic" Liberalism is the idea that the citezenry should have more power, more rights, more liberty, more privelige. Thus, spreading things around liberally. If it were not for Classic Liberalism (long before the terms and ideals were hijacked by the writings of a certain unkempt and bearded German guy living in England), the US would never have pushed through the Bill of Rights as part of reforming itself under the Constitution. So, Classic Liberalism is a very American, very pro-Constitution sort of idea. Many of the ideas that are posted for letting the people regain their individual rights come right out of the Classic Liberal songbook. The big lie of Modern Liberalism, and the way it got hijacked from the Classic incarnation, is the notion that The People equals The State. If only the collective of people (formed into The State) have any rights, then asserting the rights of individuals is actually in conflict with enhancing the rights of The People. So, a Modern Liberal thinks that public broadcasting and funding for the arts and limits on hate speech all enhance The People's rights to free speech. A Modern Liberal thinks that The People's right to self defense, and the arms for such effect, are best managed by delegating them entirely to professional soldiers and police. A Modern Liberal thinks that privacy is enhanced by making sure all your records are centralized, with a delegated department responsible for managing dispensation of information requests. And on, and on... Just thought you'd like to know! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:09:49 AM EST
While I voted with the majority for #2, I do believe this is getting more reasonable lately. I think perhaps Goatboy has taken a few mods aside and given them the benefit of his wisdom.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:14:38 AM EST
Ya where did all the anti-SUV freaks come from????
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:14:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Horseman:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: It still amazes me how many classic liberal (BULLSHIT) viewpoints I see floating around here that have been disguised as 'pro-Constitution' or 'pro-American' views!
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"Classic" Liberalism has very little to do with the modern socialist Liberalism. We could say that "Classic" Conservatism is the idea that things should be kept pretty much the same as they are.... conserving things the way they are. So, then, "Classic" Liberalism is the idea that the citezenry should have more power, more rights, more liberty, more privelige. Thus, spreading things around liberally. If it were not for Classic Liberalism (long before the terms and ideals were hijacked by the writings of a certain unkempt and bearded German guy living in England), the US would never have pushed through the Bill of Rights as part of reforming itself under the Constitution. So, Classic Liberalism is a very American, very pro-Constitution sort of idea. Many of the ideas that are posted for letting the people regain their individual rights come right out of the Classic Liberal songbook. The big lie of Modern Liberalism, and the way it got hijacked from the Classic incarnation, is the notion that The People equals The State. If only the collective of people (formed into The State) have any rights, then asserting the rights of individuals is actually in conflict with enhancing the rights of The People. So, a Modern Liberal thinks that public broadcasting and funding for the arts and limits on hate speech all enhance The People's rights to free speech. A Modern Liberal thinks that The People's right to self defense, and the arms for such effect, are best managed by delegating them entirely to professional soldiers and police. A Modern Liberal thinks that privacy is enhanced by making sure all your records are centralized, with a delegated department responsible for managing dispensation of information requests. And on, and on... Just thought you'd like to know! [:D]
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I was wondering if somebody was gonna bust ya Eric. Ya just can't get away with anything around here!!!
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:26:46 AM EST
I will refrain from answering due to fear of retribution.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:35:50 AM EST
People forget occasionally, that whenever they hit the "submit" key before launching a post, they are agreeing to abide by rule #1 in the GD conduct guidelines [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/announcement.html?b=1&f=5&id=25] (hot linked for your reading pleasure)[/url], to wit: "[b]1) No racial slurs or comments. This isn't about being "PC" [u]it's about respecting each other[/u].[/b]" On one hand I think that anybody stupid enough to post a picture of a girl that they're interested in (which is what I believe this to all be about) on the friggin' internet - especially [I] here [/I] - should fully expect to receive a good ration of well deserved shit. On the other hand, I find it amusing that when people can't hold their tongues when it comes to making racial comments, they always run and hide behind the lazy expedient "Oh sweet Jefferson's ghost, there's too much rampant PC-ism here attacking my raging intellect!" [>(][>Q] Give me a fucking break. Let me just finish up by saying that if you feel that "PC crap" limits your ability to make a point, then maybe the real point is resting atop your freshly shaved head. [flame] Bring it. … and BTW, I voted "NO, isn't this the girlie men's sensitivity forum?"
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:40:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:41:51 AM EST
Way too PC. For example, deleting the entire thread about the NC family stopped by the police in TN, because a moderator didn't like a few of the comments in it. Or, sending me a warning via IM, because I asked someone if they were trolling.z
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:53:11 AM EST
Cutoff aid to Israel. Get the hell out of the Middle East and let them deal with their own problems. Let Trent Lott say whatever the hell he likes. I drive an SUV AND a diesel pickup. I like guns. Lots o' guns. I have seen guys jump all over members because they posted comments which were not [i]rebublicanly correct[/i], let alone politically correct - like accusing someone of being a troll because they disagree with Bush's new tax "reform". There are alot of smart people on this board, and a ton of good information on weaponry and other facets of life. But the pro-republican-at-all-costs attitude is what has me debating on shelling out $$ for a membership.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:53:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By zoom: For example, deleting the entire thread about the NC family stopped by the police in TN, because a moderator didn't like a few of the comments in it.
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What were the comments?
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 7:05:36 AM EST
I don't think the board is politically correct. In fact, there's been a tamed down BOTD-style thread floating now for several days whereas there was NONE for a while. If more members would use some restraint and civility, rather than using the argument of being a combatant against political correctness as a justification for what is nothing more than poor taste or lack of some good-ol' fashioned manners, things wouldn't have to be so heavy-handed at times. If members would be more self-policing, rather than defending those bad apples who go totally overboard, we wouldn't need to enforce as much balance. I am completely against political correctness, as I am philosophically an anarchist at heart. However, anarchy only works when every constituant understands and accepts the fact that they lose the absolute freedom the very moment one wayward idiot abuses it. My approach to moderating is to balance my severity against the onslaught of what I perceive to be 'wayward' activity. In times when the board is running smoothly with lots of good topics and camradarie, I have let many things slide under the radar that would probably constitute a board violation. When things go haywire and everyone is up at arms, I have to stand my ground and be more 'proactive'. Ultimately, both sides to the argument have some validity and it's a challenge to maintain the balance. It's your right to say what you want. But it's also other people's right to not be imposed upon. There's never any legislative solution to this problem - even in a total democracy, someone gets kicked to the curb. Only when we ALL collectively recognize cause-and-effect and accept the responsibility for our statements and behavior on a continual basis, will we ever evolve as a society.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 7:36:32 AM EST
My approach to moderating is to balance my severity against the onslaught of what I perceive to be 'wayward' activity.
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I agree that is probably the best way to do it, but it can be confusing to the members when one day something is ok and another day it isn't. I looked through the version of the thread about the cops in TN I had saved in my cache, and the only thing I saw over the line was comments like "if someone shot my dog, I'd shoot them." Other than those few responses, you could tell that other members had spent some time writing responses. Time that was a waste due to a moderator deleting the thread.z
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 8:33:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 8:49:52 AM EST by liberty86]
Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal: Cutoff aid to Israel. Get the hell out of the Middle East and let them deal with their own problems. Let Trent Lott say whatever the hell he likes. I drive an SUV AND a diesel pickup. I like guns. Lots o' guns. I have seen guys jump all over members because they posted comments which were not [i]rebublicanly correct[/i], let alone politically correct - like accusing someone of being a troll because they disagree with Bush's new tax "reform". There are alot of smart people on this board, and a ton of good information on weaponry and other facets of life. [red]But the pro-republican-at-all-costs attitude is what has me debating on shelling out $$ for a membership.[/red]
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[B]NEWSFLASH!!![/B] THAT'S A PISS POOR EXCUSE. NOT ALL OF US ARE HAPPILY SKIPPING DOWN THE YELLOW BRICK ROAD TO THE "NEW WORLD ORDER"....
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 9:44:37 AM EST
I use Eudora as a mail client. Eudora automagically detects certain keywords, and marks messages with a certain number of 'chili-pepper' icons as they become more... heated... Perhaps, marking a thread with an icon like this would be a good intermediary between open-season and locking? That way, nobody who doesn't want to see a heated or insensitive discussion will stumble into one. Granted, it's a technology solution to a human problem, which means it probably won't work. But, I offer as a possibility.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 9:55:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 9:58:47 AM EST by BenDover]
Originally Posted By zoom:
My approach to moderating is to balance my severity against the onslaught of what I perceive to be 'wayward' activity.
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I agree that is probably the best way to do it, but it can be confusing to the members when one day something is ok and another day it isn't. I looked through the version of the thread about the cops in TN I had saved in my cache, and the only thing I saw over the line was comments like "if someone shot my dog, I'd shoot them." Other than those few responses, you could tell that other members had spent some time writing responses. Time that was a waste due to a moderator deleting the thread.z
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We moderators aren't necessarily always on the same page about things, but we tend to try to accept each other's decisions and support each other. It gets pretty heated sometimes in the moderator's forum and we can be harder on each other than any member can be hard on us. But we do try to reach a consensus and part amicably. Ultimately it's sort of like the 'One Minute Manager'. Make a judgement call and go on. We already know that no matter what we do or how we do it, we're going to piss someone off. We've discussed various ideas about things including having a rant forum where a topic gets moved if it goes too far. It's there in the forum, but doesn't necessarily show up on the Active Topics list. That way, if you venture into the rant forum, it's your own tough shit if you get offended by something. And once a topic is there and off the radar, it will usually die quicker because it's not as visible. Just some of the stuff we've kicked around, however all of the solutions require a level of technical effort and there's only one Goatboy. In an effort to try and boost a little revenue, he got screamed at for creating new membership tiers. Like I said, can't please everyone, so you try to shoot for the largest body mass.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 10:05:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: My approach to moderating... In times when the board is running smoothly with lots of good topics and camradarie, I have let many things slide under the radar that would probably constitute a board violation. When things go haywire and everyone is up at arms, I have to stand my ground and be more 'proactive'...
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Substitute the word "board" with "my bowels" and you've pretty much summed up my philosophy when it comes to eating Mexican food. Keep up the good work ben.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 10:21:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By GoatBoy: Too PC??? WTF you want the site to run on MACs??? [=D]
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Crap, does that mean my G4's going down? [:D]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 10:47:53 AM EST
I personally know several intelligent people who left the board - some willfully, others banned. These were NOT the ones cursing everyone out or posting porn everywhere. They found out the hard way its okay for certain people to flame others - but don't dream of flaming back. They were some of those hideous "America First Libertarians" - you know, the crazies who voted for Pat Buchanan once because their conscience was still intact.... They were disgusted with the Republican ticket-puncher mindset. There are still many here who love freedom and refuse to give it up at any costs - but it is much more politically correct here then it was in say 1999 or 1998. Do you see Zen post regularly? How about DaMan? Or 762 NATO? How many uphill battles can one take against the "more government is GOOD" crowd. I understand why people get banned for posting racist crap or trying to provoke everyone. There has to be some line which members can't cross. But I really miss the spirit of the old AR15.com board - I practically lived here then. It seemed as if anyone could freely express their opinions or thoughts without fear of having the thread locked.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 11:24:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By Jehovah: ... only serves to limit the debate and reduce input thereby preventing truly understanding the issues presented.
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That’s a rather PC description of what happens in a flame war!! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 11:41:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By J_Smith: I personally know several intelligent people who left the board - some willfully, others banned. These were NOT the ones cursing everyone out or posting porn everywhere. They found out the hard way its okay for certain people to flame others - but don't dream of flaming back. They were some of those hideous "America First Libertarians" - you know, the crazies who voted for Pat Buchanan once because their conscience was still intact.... They were disgusted with the Republican ticket-puncher mindset. There are still many here who love freedom and refuse to give it up at any costs - but it is much more politically correct here then it was in say 1999 or 1998. Do you see Zen post regularly? How about DaMan? Or 762 NATO? How many uphill battles can one take against the "more government is GOOD" crowd. I understand why people get banned for posting racist crap or trying to provoke everyone. There has to be some line which members can't cross. But I really miss the spirit of the old AR15.com board - I practically lived here then. It seemed as if anyone could freely express their opinions or thoughts without fear of having the thread locked.
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Yes, I find it humourous when the diehardbiblethumpinggovernmentcontroledmorali­tyrepublicanfundalmentalists come out to collectively swat down anyview for ACTUAL freedom, not just their own personal freedom. Live free or die.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 11:45:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Damn straight! We haven't had anyone leave the Board in a huff in a long time! Maybe a week or so! It still amazes me how many classic liberal (BULLSHIT) viewpoints I see floating around here that have been disguised as 'pro-Constitution' or 'pro-American' views! Those folks are clueless. If I find out that I am on the same side of an argument as, say, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA), then it's [u]my[/u] viewpoint that needs to be reviewed! We already know hers! Eric The(ArchConservative)Hun[>]:)]
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How about Feinstien, or Liberman? I am sure their views in most areas other than guns would mesh pretty close to yours. Maybe you should do a bit of a review yourself? And btw you are not an 'archconservative', you are a 'neo-conservative'.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 12:37:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 12:43:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 12:46:22 PM EST by legrue]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: ...It still amazes me how many classic liberal (BULLSHIT) viewpoints I see floating around here that have been disguised as 'pro-Constitution' or 'pro-American' views!
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i.e. anyone who disagrees with Eric. Cry me a river Eric. And no, I don't think the board has become too 'PC' unless of course having those views and not being afraid to express them her is 'PC'. Or maybe that's just standing up for what you believe in, like most everyone else around here does. (Still supporting RSSD!)[:D]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 12:45:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Chimborazo: The term "politically (in)correct" is really starting to get on my nerves. Being respectful to someone has nothing to do with being PC. It has to do with common fucking decency. There are ways to make a point without being an asshole. My answer is NO, but all viewpoints do allow a fuller understanding of a topic.
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And what he said.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:04:58 PM EST
But what exactly is trolling? Sometimes the ridiculous will put the reality in its place. Anyone remember the old SNL skit about ma bell? "We don't have to care, we are the phone company" IMHO that made a powerful statement about the state of the telecommunication industry. Sometimes humor and parody make a point so much better than conventional means. Helps out with perspective if you will. Personally I believe that anything that could be prosecuted in the courts (direct threats and such) should be banned and the poster treated appropriately but other than that let it ride, I do like the *Chili-Pepper* idea for marking really hot threads though. But it comes down to the fact that this board belongs to Goat-boy, it is his to do with as he pleases. If and when I tire of it I will simply go away and find somewhere else.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:23:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover:
Originally Posted By zoom:
My approach to moderating is to balance my severity against the onslaught of what I perceive to be 'wayward' activity.
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I agree that is probably the best way to do it, but it can be confusing to the members when one day something is ok and another day it isn't. I looked through the version of the thread about the cops in TN I had saved in my cache, and the only thing I saw over the line was comments like "if someone shot my dog, I'd shoot them." Other than those few responses, you could tell that other members had spent some time writing responses. Time that was a waste due to a moderator deleting the thread.z
View Quote
We moderators aren't necessarily always on the same page about things, but we tend to try to accept each other's decisions and support each other. It gets pretty heated sometimes in the moderator's forum and we can be harder on each other than any member can be hard on us. But we do try to reach a consensus and part amicably. Ultimately it's sort of like the 'One Minute Manager'. Make a judgement call and go on. We already know that no matter what we do or how we do it, we're going to piss someone off. We've discussed various ideas about things [red]including having a rant forum where a topic gets moved if it goes too far. It's there in the forum, but doesn't necessarily show up on the Active Topics list. That way, if you venture into the rant forum, it's your own tough shit if you get offended by something. And once a topic is there and off the radar, it will usually die quicker because it's not as visible.[/red] Just some of the stuff we've kicked around, however all of the solutions require a level of technical effort and there's only one Goatboy. In an effort to try and boost a little revenue, he got screamed at for creating new membership tiers. Like I said, can't please everyone, so you try to shoot for the largest body mass.
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That might not be a bad idea. It could help prevent shit from spilling over into later threads.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:56:41 PM EST
PC exists to let conservatives verify that they are on the right track. BTW, this IS a "General" discussion board.....guess that sorta means that all responses should be included.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 3:17:50 PM EST
It's not PC. The people here just have manners.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 3:26:58 PM EST
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