Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 1/18/2015 5:54:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 6:32:11 PM EST by Bunn19]
Thread title changed for all of the whiners.....


So have they? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like they are setting a major change in precedent here with the Sig brace ruling, basically saying the way you hold a weapon makes you a felon or not. Previously if a device was ruled in violation of the NFA, it was taken off the market and banned.

Is a ban of the Sig brace coming next? I don't see how this can stand up in court.

According to past logic the device is either legal or its not. By their new ruling, earplugs could now be ruled as illegal silencers.

Hasn't possession of contraband been the mainstay of the NFA arrests over the past 80 years? Now they are totally rewriting the book on gun laws, going from banned items to banning shooting methods?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:56:37 PM EST
It's the government, it doesn't have to make sense.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:56:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 10:27:58 PM EST by peekay]
Dear lord ENOUGH

it is classification
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:57:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peekay:
Dear lord ENOUGH
View Quote



How many Sig brace threads is this now? 150?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:57:50 PM EST
Right on, IN for another Sig Brace/ATF thread...





...
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:02:57 PM EST
Lock it down.......
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:08:55 PM EST
What? Did something happen with the SIG brace? Anyone care to fill us in?





Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:08:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peekay:
Dear lord ENOUGH
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:09:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:11:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 6:12:21 PM EST by SilverBearX]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By d16man:
Lock it down.......
View Quote

This thread is not about the sig brace, its about saying how you hold a gun defines legally what it is.

Would you shoot an ar pistol with only one hand?

What about a Pap?

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:12:37 PM EST
ATF and NFA is stupid bullshit.

If you shoulder a buffer tube on an AR pistol is it now a stock?

If I sit my 1911 on my shoulder is it an SBR now?

If I shoot my AR with one hand is it a pistol?

Use does not determine classification.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:16:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SilverBearX:

This thread is not about the sig brace, its about saying how you hold a gun defines legally what it is.

Would you shoot an ar pistol with only one hand?


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SilverBearX:
Originally Posted By d16man:
Lock it down.......

This thread is not about the sig brace, its about saying how you hold a gun defines legally what it is.

Would you shoot an ar pistol with only one hand?




Thanks. I know the ATF just gave a harebrained ruling on the sig brace. I'm mainly wanting to discuss an apparent major shift in ATF policy, saying that firearms laws that have typically pertained to specific hardware can now be applied to the way a weapon is used. This could now be applied to slidefire stocks, bump firing, etc.

This could possibly be a major game changer in the way the ATF attempts to charge people....
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:16:08 PM EST
I am really tire of these threads.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:16:27 PM EST
Its only a matter of time before they declare the brace as a stock.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:17:46 PM EST
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:18:06 PM EST
My Sig Brace will not be sold. I just don't plan on being stupid with it.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:18:07 PM EST
The sig brace was screwed more by gun owners than anything, to much bear poking.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:18:45 PM EST
You guys are posting on a gun forum quit whining about the amount of gun related threads. If you want to chat about something else go to a forum for that
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:18:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?
View Quote


Yeah, I'm re-designing all my AR's as pistols!
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:20:08 PM EST
sig brace is the new thing "shoulder thing that goes up".
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:20:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:20:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:20:17 PM EST
What if you hold it sideways?

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:20:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:



This.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?



This.

This.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:21:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:



This.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?



This.

This.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:27:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 6:29:23 PM EST by Bunn19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By p226guy:
ATF and NFA is stupid bullshit.

If you shoulder a buffer tube on an AR pistol is it now a stock?

If I sit my 1911 on my shoulder is it an SBR now?

If I shoot my AR with one hand is it a pistol?

Use does not determine classification.
View Quote


Except that they are now setting precedent that use does determine classification. My point is discussing this can of worms. Previously their position was all about hardware. Now it's about use.

So:

Does an autosear make a gun a machinegun if you only fire it on semi automatic?

Can I put a retractable stock on an MP5 clone pistol if it's never extended out, and the gun is only used as a "pistol'?

Does bumpfiring make a semi auto a machinegun because it fires at a machinegun-like rate of fire?

I know the ATF is not known for logical rulings, but this one is beyond all comprehension.

If they didn't like the Sig brace and felt like too many people were using it as an illegal stock, they should have banned it and declared them illegal.....
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:27:30 PM EST
I think that what's significant here has nothing to do with the brace itself. Previously, ATF said what was a legal configuration and what was not.

With this latest letter, they are trying to define how a firearm is USED.. This is a dangerous precedent and needs to be curtailed.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:29:04 PM EST
MOD's must be off for the Holiday weekend as this BS is getting as old as Ruth Ginsberg's snapper
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:30:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:
MOD's must be off for the Holiday weekend as this BS is getting as old as Ruth Ginsberg's snapper
View Quote


This thread isn't about the sig brace, it's about the ATF declaring that USE now determines classification....
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:31:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bunn19:


Except that they are now setting precedent that use does determine classification. My point is discussing this can of worms. Previously their position was all about hardware. Now it's about use.

So:

Does an autosear make a gun a machinegun if you only fire it on semi automatic?

Can I put a retractable stock on an MP5 clone pistol if it's never extended out, and the gun is only used as a "pistol'?

Does bumpfiring make a semi auto a machinegun because it fires at a machinegun-like rate of fire?

I know the ATF is not known for logical rulings, but this one is beyond all comprehension.

If they didn't like the Sig brace and felt like too many people were using it as an illegal stock, they should have banned it and declared them illegal.....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bunn19:
Originally Posted By p226guy:
ATF and NFA is stupid bullshit.

If you shoulder a buffer tube on an AR pistol is it now a stock?

If I sit my 1911 on my shoulder is it an SBR now?

If I shoot my AR with one hand is it a pistol?

Use does not determine classification.


Except that they are now setting precedent that use does determine classification. My point is discussing this can of worms. Previously their position was all about hardware. Now it's about use.

So:

Does an autosear make a gun a machinegun if you only fire it on semi automatic?

Can I put a retractable stock on an MP5 clone pistol if it's never extended out, and the gun is only used as a "pistol'?

Does bumpfiring make a semi auto a machinegun because it fires at a machinegun-like rate of fire?

I know the ATF is not known for logical rulings, but this one is beyond all comprehension.

If they didn't like the Sig brace and felt like too many people were using it as an illegal stock, they should have banned it and declared them illegal.....

I know. I was saying that the ATF was incorrect by saying that the way you use a gun determines what it is.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:31:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bunn19:


This thread isn't about the sig brace, it's about the ATF declaring that USE now determines classification....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bunn19:
Originally Posted By CTM1:
MOD's must be off for the Holiday weekend as this BS is getting as old as Ruth Ginsberg's snapper


This thread isn't about the sig brace, it's about the ATF declaring that USE now determines classification....


It has sig brace in the title...so it's kind of about the sig brace.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:31:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 6:36:58 PM EST by BangStick1]
I wish. With ATF telling manufacturers that their products are good to go
then suddenly changing their minds after the fact is flat out wrong.

It shows the absolute arrogance and/or incompetence on those making the decisions and
is out right display of the reasons why gov't agencies should not have this
kind of authority to themselves.


But with that said......NOTHING will ever be done about it without a massive
revolt.


Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:34:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BangStick1:
I wish. With ATF telling manufacturers that their products are good to gothen suddenly changing their minds after the fact is flat out wrong.

It shows the absolute incompetence on those making the decisions and
is out right display of the reasons why gov't agencies should not have this
kind of authority to themselves.


But with that said......NOTHING will ever be done about it without a massive
revolt.


View Quote


Something needs to be done at the political level. With the fines and jail sentences involved, we're not talking about a hassle, we're talking about destroying people's lives.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:34:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BladedRonin:
Its only a matter of time before they declare the brace as a stock.
View Quote


And Sig, a relatively large company with lawyers and shit in house, had to know that ahead of time.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:36:14 PM EST
Op

You are exactly right. It is dangerous and sets the stage for the bumpfiring is redesigning argument which is sure to come next.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:36:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:

This.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?



This.

This.

That
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:36:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:

This.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?



This.

This.

That
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:38:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bunn19:


Something needs to be done at the political level. With the fines and jail sentences involved, we're not talking about a hassle, we're talking about destroying people's lives.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bunn19:
Originally Posted By BangStick1:
I wish. With ATF telling manufacturers that their products are good to gothen suddenly changing their minds after the fact is flat out wrong.

It shows the absolute incompetence on those making the decisions and
is out right display of the reasons why gov't agencies should not have this
kind of authority to themselves.


But with that said......NOTHING will ever be done about it without a massive
revolt.




Something needs to be done at the political level. With the fines and jail sentences involved, we're not talking about a hassle, we're talking about destroying people's lives.


I have every confidence that no matter the amount of complaining
neither party will touch the issue.

What are we going to do? Nada. End of game.


Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:40:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 6:42:32 PM EST by easy610]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?



This.

This.

That

The other thing
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:41:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bionicmonkey:
Op

You are exactly right. It is dangerous and sets the stage for the bumpfiring is redesigning argument which is sure to come next.
View Quote
Or holding a pistol with 2 hands , squared trigger guards on pistols , or firng from a retention position and having the grip touch your torso
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:44:44 PM EST
its just bullshit


Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:45:22 PM EST
Seriously, if I only fire my full-auto M-16 on semi-auto does that make it an AR15? HOW I use it MAKES it what it is, right?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:47:09 PM EST
if the government finds itself getting to be a little irrelevant, the people more law abiding, then it just makes up a new law.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:48:16 PM EST
Think about the psychological impact that this "opinion letter" has being issued the week before the biggest shooting sports event in the country.

This is more about showing the power of the government to rewrite laws and regulations than anything else. This is nothing more than ATF
giving the shooting industry a great big "FU WE ARE IN CHARGE", so nothing else will be talked about during SHOT except their ruling.

So how many folks working the aisles at SHOT will be willing to look at or hold anything containing a SIG Brace? Timing is everything.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:48:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
It's the government, it doesn't have to make sense.
View Quote
If you believe anything else, you are just a moran.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:49:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:

This.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Originally Posted By SLRrifleworks:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
Its totally fine, im just glad they clarified that depending on how you use a gun makes it different.

i have this 10,5 inch ar with a stock on it, but i always just hold it one handed by the pistol grip and fire it so i dont need a stamp.

ITS COOL GUYS YOU DONT NEED STAMPS JUST DONT SHOOT SBRS FROM THE SHOULDERS RIGHT?



This.

This.


This
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:49:47 PM EST
So can I make an M16, but only shoot it on semi?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:50:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


And Sig, a relatively large company with lawyers and shit in house, had to know that ahead of time.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By BladedRonin:
Its only a matter of time before they declare the brace as a stock.


And Sig, a relatively large company with lawyers and shit in house, had to know that ahead of time.

THIS

I think it was Sig's plan all along.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:56:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
Seriously, if I only fire my full-auto M-16 on semi-auto does that make it an AR15? HOW I use it MAKES it what it is, right?
View Quote


Exactly. So can I import an old M16A1 receiver, remove the autosear and replace the fire control parts with AR15 parts and be good to go? The weapon surely won't fire on full auto, and for all intents and purposes is an AR15, not an M16. But the ATF will arrest you for possession of an unregistered machinegun if you do this, and then try to prove to the court that the weapon is a machine gun because it is "readily convertible" to a machine gun.

Their logic is completely contradictory in enforcing different parts of the same law.

How can use determine classification, when previously (at least with machineguns) they used the "readily convertible" idea to determine what was allowed or not.

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:57:11 PM EST
fucking loooove sig brace threads
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:58:14 PM EST
IBTL.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top