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Posted: 10/27/2013 7:35:26 PM EST
I've got a friend who regularly says that AR's are fragile toys and are no substitute for AK's or any .308 battle rifle. He keeps on about how aluminum is soft and fragile, blah, blah... It's aircraft aluminum alloy for Christs' sakes, not the same shit your soda can is made out of. Besides, I'd bet that the AK's 1mm thick stamped receiver would bend to an unusable state before the AR's cracks into an unusable state.

So, anyone have any stories or pics of an AR lower or upper failing during normal battlefield use? I'm not talking about KB's due to underloaded/overloaded ammo or water in the gas system, any rifle can KB due to that; but, breakage due to wear and tear as a fighting rifle. I know that every fighting rifle breaks on the field, but this guy seems to think one drop on a well placed rock will ruin the whole damned thing.

Any stories or pics of an AR surviving an incident as well?

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:36:32 PM EST
Just one, ran over it with a Bradley.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:37:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:
Just one, ran over it with a Bradley.
View Quote


Ouch. Someone forget where they left their rifle?
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:38:48 PM EST
I have seen buffer towers and front hinge pin holes crack. The Russians do push-ups on AKs with a mag inserted.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:38:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 7:40:29 PM EST by John-in-austin]
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Originally Posted By B2k4E:


Ouch. Someone forget where they left their rifle?
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Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:
Just one, ran over it with a Bradley.


Ouch. Someone forget where they left their rifle?



it was the drivers. He left it leaning against the track. We trained in MOUT to use rifles as a step-up to boost folks into second floor windows, we never broke one.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:41:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 7:42:24 PM EST by 56type]
I got nothing on receiver breakage, either upper or lower. I have seen some pics of bolt carriers that had broken. One of the books in the Book of the AR-15 by Patrick Sweeny has a few mentions (broken bolt carriers) of it along with the pics IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:41:13 PM EST
A few have been posted on here.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:41:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
I have seen buffer towers and front hinge pin holes crack. The Russians do push-ups on AKs with a mag inserted.
View Quote


Hmm, I'll give the AK that. I've done some push ups on a Romy PSL I used to have. I can't really do it though with a normal AK and a 30 rounder though. The mag always throws off my balance and I fall on my face in the dirt.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:41:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
I have seen buffer towers and front hinge pin holes crack. The Russians do push-ups on AKs with a mag inserted.
View Quote


Wasn't there a guy on here who tried that with a promag and ended up smashing his face?
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:41:31 PM EST
The military certainly does not seem to have any issues with it breaking.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:41:31 PM EST
Your buddy must have forgotten that the M-16 and it's variants have been
the main rifle for the US for over 40 years.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:44:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Your buddy must have forgotten that the M-16 and it's variants have been
the main rifle for the US for over 40 years.
View Quote


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:45:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Your buddy must have forgotten that the M-16 and it's variants have been
the main rifle for the US for over 40 years.
View Quote

AK has been in use for 66 years.

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:46:56 PM EST
Your buddy is a motard, get new better friends.
The only time ive ever heard of it happening is from serious ammunition catostrophic failures.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:48:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:



it was the drivers. He left it leaning against the track. We trained in MOUT to use rifles as a step-up to boost folks into second floor windows, we never broke one.
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Originally Posted By John-in-austin:
Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:
Just one, ran over it with a Bradley.


Ouch. Someone forget where they left their rifle?



it was the drivers. He left it leaning against the track. We trained in MOUT to use rifles as a step-up to boost folks into second floor windows, we never broke one.



Driver on one of our MRAPs did this and then 5 more trucks ran it over.....
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:48:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B2k4E:


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.
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Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Your buddy must have forgotten that the M-16 and it's variants have been
the main rifle for the US for over 40 years.


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.


So how many tables do they have at the local gunshow....
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:50:25 PM EST
I have seen a non military upper receiver cracked. As for military the biggest issue was I saw one ran over by a truck. Other than the slightly bent everything it held up well.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:52:00 PM EST
Does polymer count?
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:52:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 7:52:23 PM EST by Keekleberrys]
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:52:40 PM EST
We cracked the receiver on a 9mm Colt rental at the range where I worked, but it fired a few million rounds and our maintenance schedule would have sent a Marine sergeant on a ten state killing spree. No big deal. New upper, cleaning, back on the wall. We also broke HKs, Glocks, SIGS, 1911s, and pretty much anything else we let the customers shoot. The Glock 17 probably had 300,000 rounds when the dust cover broke off the front of the frame. The serial number went with it, so it had to be destroyed. It still worked.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:57:50 PM EST
Saw an M16 barrel get caught between the inside turret and hull. The barrel bent, but the receiver survived.

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:58:11 PM EST
Ive seen privates do some stupid shit with their M-4s, and the only breaks Ive seen were bolts. And keep in mind USGI mags were designed to be disposable all you that think doing push ups on your weapon is cool. Nerds.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:59:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 220ST:
Does polymer count?
View Quote


Don't even get me started on polymer/composite receivers, much less this guy.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:11:17 PM EST
Some years ago one of my students had a cracked lower receiver. It didn't happen in any of my courses, but he did show it to me. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was an Oly Arms (not 100% sure though). The best I can remember I think it was cracked in the area near the Receiver Extension (once again not 100% sure).

I have however, seen my share of broken trigger guard and bolt catch/release ears from DIY guys using the wrong tools and a "BFH" when it's not needed.

As far as seeing a cracked receiver from hard use? That one I haven't seen yet.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:12:15 PM EST
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:13:17 PM EST
I've seen two broken bolts, thats all.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:17:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 8:17:51 PM EST by B2k4E]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!
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Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!


Ouch man, glad you got out of that.

Did it fuck up your elbow?

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
I've seen two broken bolts, thats all.


Seems to be the main weakness of the AR so far...
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:27:20 PM EST

I think there is a pic floating around of a M16 with the threads busted off the upper.

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:31:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 8:34:28 PM EST by AeroE]
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:31:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B2k4E:


Ouch man, glad you got out of that.

Did it fuck up your elbow?

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Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!


Ouch man, glad you got out of that.

Did it fuck up your elbow?


Chipped a piece of bone in there. Not a real big piece, but I can feel it floating now. Swelled up pretty good, but mostly just sore.

I have only seen a couple pictures of destroyed receivers... almost all from kabooms. Although there is a picture on here a Spikes lower in 3 or 4 pieces.. some kind of operator error.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:35:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 8:55:27 PM EST by ArmyInfantryVet]
Your friend sounds like a idiot who bought into bullshit Russian propaganda or popular myths.

I had my m4 go flying off the top of a hmmwv at 30 mph onto hard gravel when I left it there and had momentarily forgotten i put it there when I was in the turret.

The rifle was little marked up but functionally just as good as before. The gun can take a lot of abuse. You have to really try hard to break it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:35:26 PM EST
I had a bushmaster lower. Split straight up the front of the mag well. Contacted bushmaster and sent it in the sent me a new lower as a replacement.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:50:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
Your friend sounds like a idiot who bought into bullshit Russian propaganda or popular myths.

I had my m4 go flying off the top of a hmmwv at 30 mph onto hard gravel when I left it there and momentarily when I was in the turret.

The rifle was little marked up but functionally just as good as before. The gun can take a lot of abuse. You have to really try hard to break it.
View Quote


Damn.

Yeah, the father has chosen the AK as his end all scenario rifle. I will say that at least they've stocked up for it. This guy wants a Tavor rifle to replace his AR that he normally uses. He doesn't like ARs much, but has seen the merit of parts and ammo availability during rough times.

I myself am looking to start using my AUG A3 more often, I've been buying more mags for it recently. Although I've also been playing with Gunstruction. I'd really like to build a 16" middy rifle like this for my usual do-all rifle:



Problem is, it'd cost me a lot of money. I already have the AUG A3.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:57:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 8:59:04 PM EST by JoeCoastie]
I have seen a ton of broken bolts and worn out barrels in MK18's at my last unit. We also had M16's still in inventory that we shot on a regular basis. As in 5 digit serial number AR-15, M16's. We were doing some cleaning on one once. Pulled the bolt carrier and when we put it back in we noticed that it still had the original carrier in it ( no forward assist notches). I know those had some bodies on them.

They worked fine.

To clarify, they had been re-arsenaled to the M16A2 configuration.

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 11:34:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B2k4E:


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Your buddy must have forgotten that the M-16 and it's variants have been
the main rifle for the US for over 40 years.


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.


You might refer him to the LMT MWS chosen by the Brits as their DMR rifle (L129A1).
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 11:39:58 PM EST
Your friend is stupid...and armed.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 1:07:24 AM EST
I had a receiver crack on me in two places due to a poor casting... So I beat it with a sledge hammer. It took forever to make it unserviceable....
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 1:12:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 1:29:07 AM EST by B2k4E]
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Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Your friend is stupid...and armed.
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Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Your friend is stupid...and armed.


I know. He's also a fairly decent shot too. I just usually let it go when he thinks he's hot shit with his opinion.

ETA: This one time I decided to throw my AR around in some nice tank water to get it muddied up and see just how reliable it was. I open up the action and let any water out of the barrel and gas tube. This guy starts backing up because he thinks it's going to blow up. Went off without a hitch using Federal 5.56 XM193.


Originally Posted By joshiedoom:
I had a receiver crack on me in two places due to a poor casting... So I beat it with a sledge hammer. It took forever to make it unserviceable....


Wait, wut? Upper or lower? If I had a cracked upper I'd toss that thing in the recycle bin.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:16:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:

Chipped a piece of bone in there. Not a real big piece, but I can feel it floating now. Swelled up pretty good, but mostly just sore.

I have only seen a couple pictures of destroyed receivers... almost all from kabooms. Although there is a picture on here a Spikes lower in 3 or 4 pieces.. some kind of operator error.
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Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!


Ouch man, glad you got out of that.

Did it fuck up your elbow?


Chipped a piece of bone in there. Not a real big piece, but I can feel it floating now. Swelled up pretty good, but mostly just sore.

I have only seen a couple pictures of destroyed receivers... almost all from kabooms. Although there is a picture on here a Spikes lower in 3 or 4 pieces.. some kind of operator error.


Part in red: BEST THREAD EVER!
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:30:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SmithinitUp:


Part in red: BEST THREAD EVER!
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Originally Posted By SmithinitUp:
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!


Ouch man, glad you got out of that.

Did it fuck up your elbow?


Chipped a piece of bone in there. Not a real big piece, but I can feel it floating now. Swelled up pretty good, but mostly just sore.

I have only seen a couple pictures of destroyed receivers... almost all from kabooms. Although there is a picture on here a Spikes lower in 3 or 4 pieces.. some kind of operator error.


Part in red: BEST THREAD EVER!


Link?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:34:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SmithinitUp:


Part in red: BEST THREAD EVER!
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Originally Posted By SmithinitUp:
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
I knocked mine off a Maxx Pro turret once. It hit some hard clay, but it was good to go.

The first time I got blown up, I had it tucked behind a grab handle in the turret. My elbow smashed the KAC rail and broke it (snapped a piece of the lower half off). It rattled, but stayed in place due to the delta ring... and the main portion of the lower half was still sturdy enough, and it still functioned fine when we started getting shot at while recovering the truck. Heh.

That rifle got beat up pretty good, but it never failed me. It wasn't even a Colt!


Ouch man, glad you got out of that.

Did it fuck up your elbow?


Chipped a piece of bone in there. Not a real big piece, but I can feel it floating now. Swelled up pretty good, but mostly just sore.

I have only seen a couple pictures of destroyed receivers... almost all from kabooms. Although there is a picture on here a Spikes lower in 3 or 4 pieces.. some kind of operator error.


Part in red: BEST THREAD EVER!


Funny thing is that I sent a Spike's rifle back to them for a little work and in the shipping instructions they still point out that it is not necessary to cut the lower into separate pieces
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:37:33 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B2k4E:


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.
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Originally Posted By B2k4E:
Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Your buddy must have forgotten that the M-16 and it's variants have been
the main rifle for the US for over 40 years.


I've said that over and over, but he still refutes that they're spray and pray toys. He and his father seem to have that "What I have is gold and what you've got is shit" syndrome. His father says that AR 10's and .308 AR's are total junk, that's why the military doesn't use them. I then asked him what the KAC SR-25 and Mk 11 Mod 0 rifles are.

They're a joy to debate gun subjects with.

Sounds like they are butt hurt because a quality AR costs more and they either don't have the cash or are just fucking cheap, like the guys who put Barska scopes on their AR instead of a reliable optic. Jealousy is a bad look.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:39:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:43:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joshiedoom:
I had a receiver crack on me in two places due to a poor casting... So I beat it with a sledge hammer. It took forever to make it unserviceable....
View Quote

Old Panther/DPMS Arms?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:43:36 AM EST
Sure it is possible that a few break but your friend is not right, they are very durable in general.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:45:33 AM EST
Here's one. Probably a bad casting.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:48:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 3:48:58 AM EST by ChiefPilot]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
Here's one. Probably a bad casting.
http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/jpogg936/100_2255.jpg
View Quote


I think I see the problem. If you look closely, you can just make out "Olympic Arms" on the side of the receiver.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:01:36 AM EST
Echo the above comments about being run over. Even then it was the barrel that bent and the mag well deflected. There were two instances of bent barrels from sticking the muzzle out the window and the driver hitting something. A parked vehicle and hesco. Seen several blown up and burned and I suppose they could have been made to work again with new parts.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:13:46 AM EST
Aluminum is flexible and does not usually crack. In the military the only time I’ve seen a receiver crack or break it was ran over.
I’ve replaced a lot of stocks and hand guards. Replaced quite a few buffers, buffer springs, and bolt rings from wear. At one of my units we had one of the original AR-15 form the 1960’s that was converted into an M16 it was still going strong in the late 80’s.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:24:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:

it was the drivers. He left it leaning against the track. We trained in MOUT to use rifles as a step-up to boost folks into second floor windows, we never broke one.
View Quote


I can understand the convenience of a rifle being a field expedient ladder. Isn't that one of the known causes of breaking the threaded area for the receiver extension, though? IIRC, that was one of the reasons for the A2 reinforcements. Skinny barrels also can get a little bendy when used as a prybar.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 9:31:58 AM EST
No.

I've had rifles in gun fights, IED'd, jumped out of planes with them. Fuck, I've even seen one rifle that burned in when it was jettisoned for some reason from 100 feet or so that was fine (receiver wise).

Under anything even somewhat close to common sense, I don't think you will have a problem.
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